Questions for Mormons, Part 3

Questions for Mormons, Part 3


QUESTION: The LDS are famous for their word of Wisdom and good members abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol and tobacco. Do you support this idea?

ANSWER: Yes, of course.

QUESTION: Do you view it as a commandment?


QUESTION: And apparently it is such a strict commandment that you can’t get a temple recommend if you do not obey it, is that right?

ANSWER: That is correct.

QUESTION: Let me read you the introduction to the Word of Wisdom. It says: “To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days.” D & C 89:2 Now the church was given a commandment here that the revelation was only a word of wisdom and was not to be “by commandment or constraint.” Why is the church violating this commandment (to not make it a commandment) by making it a commandment?”

ANSWER: It was not a commandment when it was given, but was made one later.

QUESTION: Who did this?

ANSWER: I think it was Brigham Young around 1860.

QUESTION: You mean the same Brigham Young who owned a distillery, made his own wine and kept it at his mansion, operated a bar in the Salt Lake House and drank coffee and tea?

ANSWER: I’m not so sure about that, but yes, we are told that it was Brigham that first encouraged strict obedience and then later presidents put more emphasis on it.

QUESTION: Now the original commandment stated it was to be a word of wisdom only and not a commandment to constrain people. This was given by revelation and you would think that any change to this would come by revelation. In other words, a revelation of the will of God can only be changed by revelation. Can you tell me of a revelation to the church that made this change?

ANSWER: I’m sure Brigham and other leaders received revelation about it.

QUESTION: Can you tell me where this revelation may be?

ANSWER: Brigham and other church leaders have spoken about the Word of Wisdom hundreds of times.

QUESTION: But did any of them speak in the name of the Lord or by way of revelation?

ANSWER: I’m not sure.

QUESTION: Let me assure you, my friend, that they have made no such claim. If the church leaders claim no revelation on the matter then why do you give them credit for something they have never said?

ANSWER: Because they have told us they will not lead us astray.

QUESTION: And a salesman told me the other day that his formula could grow my hair back. Are you aware that Joseph Smith and many of the early brethren drank alcohol in moderation after this revelation was given?

ANSWER: Yes, but, as I said, the members were later commanded to cease from drinking alcohol.

QUESTION: Yes, but this is a commandment given by men that makes no claim as being from God. Are you also aware that Joseph installed a bar in the Nauvoo house and Porter Rockwell was the main bartender?

ANSWER: I haven’t heard that one.

QUESTION: Are you also aware that Joseph ordered in a bottle of wine to the Carthage jail to cheer their spirits just before he was killed?

ANSWER: I think I read that.

QUESTION: Now, if a little wine was all right for Joseph, Brigham and many other early brethren to use as wisdom dictated, then why is it not all right for you today? Do we have less brainpower today?

ANSWER: Because the current authorities say differently today.

QUESTION: Now read verse 17 of the revelation.

ANSWER: “Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.”

QUESTION: What does it say that barley is to be used for?

ANSWER: The animals.

QUESTION: And what else?

ANSWER: Mild drinks.

QUESTION: What is the most popular mild drink made from barely?

ANSWER: We sometimes drink one called Pero. It’s a good substitute for coffee.

QUESTION: Pero was not in existence in the days of Joseph Smith. Now think, for hundreds of years, what has been the most popular mild drink made from barley?

ANSWER: Surely you’re not thinking its beer?

QUESTION: This my friend, is an historical fact. Beer is a mild alcoholic drink and it has been made from barley for thousands of years. If you are going to now consider the Word of Wisdom as a commandment then it looks like you are commanded to drink beer made from barley.

ANSWER: You’re being ridiculous.

QUESTION: I don’t think so. The revelation promises good health to those who are obedient, and recent studies tell us that mild beer drinkers have better health, especially healthier hearts, than those who do not drink at all. Moderate wine drinkers like Joseph and Brigham are also healthier than those who abstain completely.

It makes sense to me to follow the original intent of the revelation, that the members be allowed to use their own wisdom as to what to eat or drink without some authority “constraining” them. Are you going to follow this commandment and not allow others to “constrain” your sense or wisdom?

ANSWER: I’ll follow the living prophet, thank you.

The Sacred Name

QUESTION: I notice that each prayer and speech in the LDS church ends with the phrase “in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”

ANSWER: That is correct.

QUESTION: Do you know when this tradition began?

ANSWER: I think it has been in the church from the beginning.

QUESTION: Not so. Read here the end of one of the most solemn prayers given by Joseph Smith as he dedicated the Kirkland Temple in D & C section 109 verse 80.

ANSWER: “And let these, thine anointed ones, be clothed with salvation, and thy saints shout aloud for joy. Amen, and Amen.”

QUESTION: So how did Joseph end this prayer which is perhaps the most important one of his adult life?

ANSWER: Amen and Amen

QUESTION: Do you see it anywhere saying “In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen?”

ANSWER: No, I guess not.

QUESTION: Can you find any speech or prayer that Joseph ended with the phrase?

ANSWER: I’m not sure.

QUESTION: They were few and far between. Have you checked the Journal of Discourses for this phrase?

ANSWER: Not specifically.

QUESTION: It was used only once in a while by these early brethren. Do you know why it was used so sparingly?

ANSWER: I’m not sure.

QUESTION: It was because they were commanded to. Read D & C 63:61-64

ANSWER: “Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

“Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips.

“For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

“Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

“Remember that which cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit; and in this there is no condemnation, and ye receive the Spirit through prayer; wherefore, without this there remaineth condemnation.”

QUESTION: Some of the early brethren were under condemnation, but for what?

ANSWER: Using the name of Jesus Christ in vain, not having authority.

QUESTION: Now these men were given the standard priesthood authority through the laying on of hands, so what authority did they lack?

ANSWER: I’m not sure.

QUESTION: In verse 64 we are told what we must do to obtain authority. What is it?

ANSWER: We must speak the name with care and constraint of the Spirit.

QUESTION: And how do we receive the Spirit according to the scripture?

ANSWER: Through prayer

QUESTION: So would you agree that we receive authority to use the name through revelation from the Holy Spirit?

ANSWER: I suppose

QUESTION: Do you think that everyone who gives a talk or prayer in church receives a revelation to use the name of Jesus Christ?

ANSWER: I must admit that is doubtful.

QUESTION: Would you agree that most use it as a matter of habit without even checking with the Holy Spirit for permission?

ANSWER: Perhaps.

QUESTION: What does it say in verse 63 that God will do if the church does not repent of this sin and others?

ANSWER: We will be cut off.

QUESTION: Does this not concern you, then?

ANSWER: Not really. I’m sure the prophet will let us know when we are misusing the Lord’s name.

QUESTION: But if you are “cut off” how can the prophet let you know anything concerning God’s will?

ANSWER: (He has no answer).

July 4, 2001, 2001

Copyright by J J Dewey

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McCall Gathering, 2007, Part 27

This entry is part 27 of 54 in the series McCall Gathering 2007

Humor and Unselfishness

JJ: What are some of the other distinctions between the light and the dark?

Audience: The dark brothers are totally selfish and self-serving and the Brotherhood of Light is the exact opposite.

JJ: Light is selfless and dark selfish. Now, on the other hand, does the person who is selfish ever admit he is selfish? No it is like a maze trying to figure out who is who because they both say a lot of the same things. Not only will the dark brother talk about how selfless and virtuous and how much he has given to charity and how of this and that, that he has done but his acolytes will also praise him and say, oh Mr. Smith, he has done so much for the service of humanity. Maybe the guy is just totally selfish and what he has done with his selfishness is he has not given of himself but he has manipulated events and used other people’s money to buy the appearance of virtue. He will take other people’s money and build something with it and put his name on it and everyone will think that this guy gave us this bridge and he is a wonderful person.

There are politicians in Washington with dozens and dozens of buildings, monuments and bridges that are named after them and all they did was take other people’s money and buy it for us and it did not cost them one penny out their own pocket. As they take other people’s money to build the building to put their name on it they are increasing our taxes. If you want to look for the selfish politicians then I would look for the ones with the most buildings with their names on them.

The unselfish politicians will not care if a building has their name on it for what they care about is to get something done that will benefit this country and the people. You will find that this politician does not give a rat’s behind about whether or not a building has his name on it or not. I have found that the best politicians rarely have a building named after them until after they die and then somebody else does it for him.

Selfishness, the difficult part of all of these is the dark brother present himself as light like it says in the Bible – Satan himself presents himself as an angel of light. The selfish brother presents himself as altruistic and virtuous because he has managed to give his constituents all this stuff. I am a wonderful person because I give you this stuff, but he did not give it to us, he gave it to us with other people’s money.

When somebody says he will give you free stuff, I say that when they reach in their own pocket and pay for it with their own money then I think that is unselfish. If he did it with his own money, his own power and his own work and did it to benefit other people not using other people’s money then that is what I call unselfishness. So when a politician gets in an area of great influence and is able to buy stuff and put his name on buildings, bridges, libraries and such and get a lot of credit for being virtuous on other people’s hard work, I do not call this unselfish. I call it selfish because he is selfishly using other people’s money to build up his own ego.

Okay what other differences do we have?

Audience: I think the dark side is humorless and the light is joyful with humor.

JJ: Light side is joyful and has humor and dark is opposite. DK Himself points this out that the brotherhood of light has a good sense of humor and when you first begin to read his book you wonder if He has any sense of humor himself but once you get into it and study Him then you see some subtle little things he says which kind of make you chuckle every once in a while.

Take a look at Hitler, for instance. Whenever you see him talking he was so dead serious when he got up to speak with his body language and his voice, I can’t understand what he is saying and I would like to hear a clip where it is translated to see what he is actually saying. Every speech I have seen of Hitler, he sounds like he is mad at his dog or something. He sounds completely humorless and one of the things the allies did in World War II was they made fun of Hitler. They made jokes about him and made these films where they contorted Hitler and made him look like he was doing all this funny weird stuff and they would show the films in the theaters just to make fun of him and the whole audience would laugh and a lot people thought Hitler actually did this stuff. Hitler was manipulated in films to all kinds of crazy stuff like falling off of chairs and stuff like that. I am sure if Hitler ever knew about it that it probably really drove him crazy. It would be interesting for somebody to compile those old films, I have read about them but I have never actually seen them.

What is interesting between light and dark is that light has more than one meaning. In light we think of a light like this one right here but there is also light as in opposite of heavy. The dark brothers are heavy with their feelings and their thoughts are just sooo serious. The Brotherhood of Light is light in their thoughts and they are more carefree. Annie was something about how they go slow quickly. How was that worded Annie?

Annie: They hurry slowly.

JJ: They hurry slowly. In other words, the impression I got was that they have a deadline but they do not pursue the deadline with a state of hurriedness; they do it in a state of relaxation. Now often times when people have deadline it just drives them crazy and they get really nervous and uptight about it but the Brotherhood of light says, just relax, everything will be fine, concentrate and if you give yourself the right amount of time then you can pace yourself and be relaxed, move forward step by step and you can have your mission accomplished. Now the dark brothers are entirely different, it has to be done at a certain time or you die.

Audience: Laughter!

JJ: The mob is an extension of the dark brothers and you see these movies about them and what happens if the guy in the mob does not perform on time?

Audience: He gets whacked!

JJ: Yes, he gets hit over the head with a baseball bat or choked or shot or stabbed or tortured or fire placed under him or something crazy happens to the poor guy who does not perform or who does not get the good guy or whatever. So it is interesting how light applies in more ways than just brightness.

After Curtis and I were excommunicated we spent a number of times trying to enlighten the Mormons which is the hardest thing I have ever attempted in my life. We would go around and visit certain ones and the ones that bothered us the most we called them the squeaky clean ones. In other words, it looked like they had just got out of the shower and completely groomed no matter what time of day it was. The squeaky clean ones were always very serious and when we met with them and we presented what we thought were some of the problems in the church, they would talk to us like this, very slowly and in a deep voice, “Oh brother you know you are on dangerous ground here and you know that Satan has got a hold of you and that you can suffer very dark consequences if you continue upon this path.” They talk slowly deliberately and they are always squeaky clean. These types of guys really talk this way and they are washed, clean, groomed and I swear they have shaved within the past hour, all of them!

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: I always seem to have some stubble going on and I cannot get shaved like these squeaky clean ones. I found that interesting that I always found them to be in the squeaky clean category, now look at Dan over here, he would never fit in the squeaky clean category!

Audience: Laughter!

JJ: You look at him and he is mellow. He has an old T-shirt on and he is never really clean shaven entirely, and these are the type of guys that I find that I really trust a lot more than the ones who have that air of authority about them like, “I am in charge and I have authority here.” This type of guy is always rubbing me the wrong way.

Audience: I had a missionary come over to my house once and I could not get rid of him and I said you can excommunicate me please, please and then finally I said you ought to get laid and that did it he left after that.

JJ: If you want to get rid of them even faster give them my little booklet called Mormonism and Reincarnation. They will hold that in their hand like it is going to start on fire and they will get out of there really fast. Just say that you want to talk about it, for it has some scriptures proving that Joseph Smith believed in reincarnation.

It works with the Jehovah witnesses too. I use the Bible and Reincarnation with them. They come in and I say yes I have a little thing here that proves reincarnation in the Bible and I will take your literature and you take mine and they have the same reaction. It is like it is hot to their touch. It is funny during that time period that Curtis and I tried to enlighten the Mormons, we would give them some of our material and then come back and ask them if they read it. They would always give us the same answer and can you guess what that answer is?

Audience: No

JJ: What did they do with it, Curtis?

Curtis: Burned it.

JJ: Burned it. Nine times out of ten they would say that they burned it. And we would ask them, why did you burn it? They would say well somebody else could have got it out of the garbage and I did not want anybody to ever see that so we burned it. Even some of my family members told me that they burned some of my stuff. No they just did not throw it away they had to actually create a fire burn it to make sure no one would ever read it. It is amazing how many people told us that and it about blew us away and we would have never predicted that is what they would have done. But after it happened again and again we began not to be surprised when they told us that they burned our words and works.

Audience: There is a spiritual open house in New York City and I got off the subway and here was some kind of weird Christian fundamentalist group and he talked about energy pulses confirming something about the Virgin Mary and said well that is interesting, here is a spiritual event that is coming up and within two seconds after I handed him the pamphlet he was crumbling it up and throwing it away.

JJ: I can imagine, at a family reunion a while back I gave a copy of the Immortal to Curtis’s brother who was still in the Mormon Church and he did not want to refuse it because he did not want to hurt my feelings but he just could not hold it steady in his hand. It was like it was warm or hot in his hand or something. Strange.

When I visit my family members and look in their library the Immortal is never there even though I have given them all a copy. It is funny that how a message of light for those who are in darkness is very difficult for them to handle. It is like in the election of Abraham Lincoln for instance. We all acknowledge now he was a great Avatar and liberator, and most historians think he was our greatest president. But when he was elected the South was repulsed by him. They had heard the Lincoln and Douglas debate where he said, “A nation cannot exist half free and half slave and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.”

Those words reverberated in the south and right after he was elected the south determined that they had to fight this guy. This is what happens with words of light when they are sent to where darkness is. They will be fought, they will be fought just like I talked about in discussing the words and works of the two witnesses. The beast fights against them and attempts to destroy them until their dead bodies are lying in the streets of the symbolic New Jerusalem and then people are sending gifts to one another because they are so happy that they can just have their little mediocre beliefs to celebrate.

Copyright by J J Dewey

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McCall Gathering, 2007, Part 1

This entry is part 1 of 54 in the series McCall Gathering 2007

The Transition from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius.

JJ: Let’s see what I am supposed to talk on today… Boating on the Payette Lake (laughter), it’s an odd subject but you know we can make the best of it.

(Then JJ seems to find a piece of paper with the right subject) Oh, here we go. The Transition from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius. It’s interesting that we have quite a few people who come from fundamentalist religions. Larry and Robin are from fundamentalist Baptist type. And several from the Mormon religion – probably about a third of the group here. Anybody from any other fundamentalist religion here?

Audience: Jewish.

JJ: Jewish, are you Jewish?

Audience: yes.

JJ: Oh I did not know that. Oh well that’s really fundamental (laughter). Okay anybody else?

Audience:  Episcopalian

JJ: Were you ever really into it? Annie what’s your background? You were never that religious were you?

Annie: No.

JJ: You don’t really look that religious.

Annie: I was lucky.

JJ:  What’s your background Dan?

Dan: My grandparents were Methodist…

JJ: You look like back in high school you probably were kind of the wild kid on the block?

Dan:  Not really.

Audience: He’s wild now. (Laughter)

JJ: Oh really, he’s wild now not back then. You really look like a mellow guy you know just overall. How about you Marcy?

Marcy: (Inaudible).

JJ: How about you James?

James: Oh yeah I was raised a Baptist and when I was younger then I was Methodist.

JJ: You were never really into it that much were you? Kind of so so. How about you Susi, about the same or what?

Susi: No I was Presbyterian, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist and now I’m not in any.

JJ: It’s interesting that most people that have been into religion look on astrology as being evil. Anything out of the ordinary, any type of psychism, anything that sounds kind of odd, flying saucers or whatever, the old devil,  he’s just behind it all according to the fundamentalist type religion. But it’s interesting that astrology is mentioned quite a bit in the Bible. As a matter of fact, the word Magi used for the three wise men, means a magician or astrologer according to the original language, and they came from the East. Does anyone know why they were able to recognize the signs and the stars of the Messiah?

Audience: Because of the configuration.

JJ: The configuration. But what’s interesting is they learned it form Daniel the prophet, because when Daniel the prophet was taken captive in the Babylon. He was taken to the East and he was the one who taught the Magi. Because Daniel the prophet taught the Magi all about true astrology it was passed down and that’s why the Wise men in the east were looking for the Messiah. Daniel the prophet had taught them to look for the signs of the coming of the Messiah.

So it’s interesting how everything went full circle. And the only ones we know about that really correctly expected him and correctly anticipated him came from the east. The people that were supposed to recognize him – it just went right over their heads. You think that might happen when he comes the next time? How are they expecting him to come next time?

Audience: (Inaudible)

JJ: As a blaze of glory in the sky. How were they expecting him to come last time?

Audience: As a warrior fighter.

JJ: As a blaze of glory in the sky last time. Same thing. They were expecting him to come as a blaze of glory in the sky and the wicked would melt as stubble. That quote is from the Old Testament, not from the new one and they used it right back in the days of Jesus. And they thought that all the Romans were going to be evaporated just like stubble is like being burnt and then God would come and float down from heaven and establish his kingdom. But instead he fooled them. He was born as a little baby and was totally unexpected. The only ones we know for sure that recognize him were the Magi and then there’s a story of an old woman named Anna that wanted to see the Messiah before she died, so this elderly person was expecting it the way it really happened. There’s this old lady and the three Magi were the only ones we know about that anticipated the coming the way it really happened.

Audience: But what about the community that cared for him and his relatives?

JJ: Well there’s really not much mention of the Christ among the Essene writings. They were expecting more the end of the world. They were like retreating from the normal world. There were kind of like the cults today – they retreat to the mountain top for Jesus to show up, and scoop them to heaven. Well they moved into caves and hid out expecting the end of the world to come.

They had reasonable amount of light on a number of areas, but they were not entirely right either on a lot of stuff, but they did have a lot of teachings and buried them and a lot of them resurfaced which shed some additional light. But it’s not the type of light the Christian world was waiting for. They thought maybe these writings would show more proof of regular Christianity and what they got was what a lot of Christians would call heresy in the Essene writings. They have some good materials in them but a lot of them were expecting the end of the world.

As a matter of fact, almost everybody at that time was expecting the end of the world. Had you read world history very much you’d see that until the past hundred years, the world was a very tough place to live in. Expecting the end of the world was a natural inclination, because it would be really nice to escape the dreary world that they were in up until just recently. A lot of people think we live in the worst situation in world history right now. What do you think about that Larry?

Larry : They’re deceived.

JJ: Yeah they are aren’t they? People need to study history so they get a clear picture. I was just reading about Martin Luther. They roasted alive and tortured many associates of Martin Luther for heresy and this really upset him. Then when Martin Luther got a little power, well he did the same thing to people that disagreed with him. And it was typical. I was reading about one guy they roasted they didn’t like. They roasted him slowly, and then they lifted him up away from the fire so he would heal a little bit so he would not quite die and then they would roast him some more, then lift him up, roast him some more. They did all kinds of stuff like that.

They were very creative about taking the heretics and make them suffer just the maximum amount they could suffer. They believed it was wrong to shed blood. Because you know Jesus taught he who kills with a sword shall be killed with a sword. So they interpreted as “well we should not really shed their blood, but by George we could surely roast those guys!” (Laughter)

And that’s why they burned everybody at the stake. This act didn’t shed blood so they thought that was fine. And they called it auto da fé. That was the Spanish term for it, which meant act of faith. It was an act of faith to be able to take these heretics and torture them until they would admit that they were wrong. They thought they were really pleasing Jesus.

And even some of the great names in history, like Sir Thomas Moore participated. He had a torturing rack in his basement. They would have some guy being tortured in his basement and up above the he would be eating dinner with his family. You can just see him saying, “….kids eat your porridge but don’t worry about that guy growling down in the basement… He’s just got a fire in his belly, and just he’ll confess pretty soon.” Can you imagine that? Having that torturing rack in your basement.

Now some people think Sir Thomas Moore is now a master, but I really had my reservation about that after reading he had a torture chamber in his basement. (Laughter) If he’s a master, he really had to pay off a lot of karma between that period and now. It’s kind of sad really.

But what’s another interesting fact is that people look back a few hundred years and they think: Boy if I lived then I would never have owned slaves, I would never have tortured people. I would just stand for what was right. But they don’t realize how powerful the current thought form is. And we don’t also realize that 200 years from now people will look back at us and they’re going to look at us and say: If I lived back then I would never have been in such ignorance. And maybe we in this room are in such a state of ignorance compared to people 200 years from now, that they’re going to look back at us and say : how come they couldn’t see that? How come they could not see that this was the right thing?

So we look back and we condemn our Founding Fathers for not entirely freeing the slaves. We look back in the days of the Roman Empire where they tortured people and fed people to lions and the whole community came out. The whole town came out and cheered everybody on and thought that was wonderful, great entertainment and hardly anyone that was not getting fed to the lions themselves disagreed with it. They thought that was just great fun to watch. They created this chair and heated it up red hot and put a Christian in it and then forced him to sit in it until he fried to death and stuff like that and the whole audience would just cheer him, thinking that was just great! I mean can you imagine us being back there cheering with them?

Maybe we were. It’s pretty dangerous to look back. Jesus said, judge not lest ye be judged. In other words, when we judge we have to be careful on how we judge, because it can come back to haunt us. So people look back and say “I would never have owned a slave, I am above that”. Well maybe you are now because maybe it’s just the way you are programmed now to think that way. But you were programmed differently then. Can you escape your program? Are you able to lift above what the beast today has programmed you to think?

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The Literal Gathering of Israel, Chapter Sixteen

This entry is part 16 of 16 in the series Literal Gathering

Chapter Sixteen

Gathering  Reflections 2012

As I stated earlier I wrote this treatise back in 1979 when I had quite a different mindset than I do today. I have been hesitant to publish it because it is not very representative of my writings today.  My later treatise, The Gathering of Lights comes much closer to reflecting my thinking of today.

Even so I decided to post it for several reasons:

(1) It represents my thinking during a turning point in my life.

(2) It is written in a language and with authoritative quotes that speaks to the LDS.

(3) It reveals a doctrine that is currently suppressed in the LDS church and may cause some to start thinking out of the box.

There are a number of ways that my thinking is different today than when I wrote this treatise:

(1) My manner of expression.  My style of writing was very religious in tone.  This was partly due to the fact that I was writing to the LDS who use this manner of expression.  Another part of the reason is that from 1958-1978 I was very immersed in the church and had spent a lot of time studying the scriptures and writings of the early LDS leaders.

(2) I no longer connected in any way with the LDS church and neither do its doctrines define my philosophy. There are many enlightened teachings throughout the planet and I seek to incorporate the best of them all as well as learning through inner communion.

(3) In 1979 I was very concerned about an approaching destruction.  There were two reasons for this.  The first was the many warnings in the scriptures as well as the early leaders of the church.  The second was that I received an internal warning that there was a danger of great destruction by the year 1985. Whether or not there was destruction would be determined by the choices humanity made.  This gave me a strong sense of urgency in putting together the treatise, sounding the warning voice and attempting to set up a place of refuge.  I did all in my power to sound the warning voice to the LDS for about two years with very little results.

Then, after Reagan was elected, shortly after the failed assassination attempt, I received another message telling me that circumstances had changed and the destruction was going to be avoided.  I wasn’t told the details but had the impression it had something to do with Reagan.  If Reagan hadn’t been elected or would have been killed by an assassin I believe our history would have taken a much different turn for the worse.

For 120 years every president elected in a year ending with zero was killed in office.  It seemed to be a curse of some kind.  The interesting thing is that Reagan, who was elected in 1980, came extremely close to getting killed.  If the trajectory of the bullet was just a couple millimeters different Reagan would not have lived.  As it is, few realize how close he did come.

I am wondering if the Hierarchy itself did not know for sure if Reagan would be killed.  If this was the case and Reagan was going to do something to prevent the destruction then this would explain the conditional warning I received.

When there is great eminent destruction the Hierarchy will normally prepare a refuge for the pure in heart to escape. I think it is probable that because no such refuge was going to be available in 1985 that they preserved Reagan’s life and used him to buy us some time.

As it is, I have not felt an urgency concerning future destruction since 1982.  Of course, over the years I have felt concern over economic swings, terrorist threats, war etc but nothing has occurred to trouble me in spirit the way I was for the two years after I received that message.

One thing that is the same between the me of 1979 and 2012 is an understanding of the gathering principle.  This principle of gathering can move human kind forward into spiritual progression.  When the most enlightened souls gather together they create a better society than the one left behind. For instance, the discovery of America caused the more intelligent and freedom loving people to gather here and once gathered they created a better government than had existed in recorded history.

The gathering of the early Mormons drew some very intelligent souls and had the makings of creating a better society. I believe the benefits were limited because of the early death of Joseph Smith.  Brigham started a much more authoritarian rule to the extent that anyone who openly challenged him was in danger for their lives. This limitation on the freedom of the human spirit probably doomed the LDS gathering more than any other thing.

There will be other gatherings in the future that will push mankind toward a higher spiritual level so long as the leaders encourage freedom rather than suffocate it. These gatherings will be fairly self-sufficient and thus provide a place of refuge from future calamities. Blessed are those pure in heart who live to see the hand of God separate the wheat from the tares.

Copyright 1979 by J J Dewey

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Knowing the Truth, Part 1

This entry is part 13 of 49 in the series JJ Lectures

(Text from Class given in 2005)
I have been thinking about what to talk about and I have been meeting some strange characters lately, particularly on the Internet. Bryan you met the Holy Ghost guy didn’t you?

Bryan: Yes I sure did! Chuckling!

JJ: It is funny that most of them that we meet that are very odd are ex-Mormons, chuckling. They must have excommunicated him for a reason. I will tell you about two that I met on the Internet. Now in our discussion group, the Keys of Knowledge, we usually filter them out. Sometimes really strange people join and give me a bad time for a month or so and then when they see we have a fairly logical group and they are not getting any following they usually just leave and that is kind of nice. The Keys are much like the group here, logical with common sense, except for Wayne of course. Laughter.

We filter them out on the Keys list. At first we did not do this but as we grew we found that moderating worked well for weeding out the weird. We went I think three or four years with no moderation at all and we kept it this way as long as we could until a couple of strange characters came on and even a couple that threatened us physically. Then we decided it was time to moderate. Moderating our discussion group on the Internet helped a lot because people that came on board just to create a problem found they had to stay on subject just to get their post on.

You have to use judgment in whatever you do and that is the second key of the Buddha – to use common sense in judgment. There is a time and place and a purpose for everything under heaven as Solomon said. The older I get the more I see that is true. You never say never because eventually you reach a circumstance where there is an exception to every rule that you can imagine. There is time to get together, to separate, a time to love… and it is probably good that this true because this sends us through the range of emotions in our lifetimes. Imagine what your life would be like if you never had a negative emotion in your life. What do you think Mark – don’t you think life would be kind of sterile if you never had a negative emotion in your life?

Mark: For sure but it would be nice to try for a change!

Audience: Laughter!

JJ: It would be nice to go a day without one wouldn’t it Mark? It might be a good for us all, to go one day with no negative emotion. I don’t have much negative emotions do I dear?

Artie: No dear.

JJ: Except for when I stub my toe late at night. Whenever I stub my toe and complain Artie always says, man you go to the dentist and don’t use Novocain but when you stub your toe you are like a little kid.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: Anyway, I will tell you about two strange characters I met on the web, the first one thinks he is every important character in the Bible is pretty much him and he thinks he is the Holy Spirit and He thinks the Holy Spirit is a bigger deal than being God or Jesus. He claims to be time traveler and at the very end of time he perfects himself as the Holy Spirit and he travels back and forth through time as the Holy Spirit. Then he becomes other entities too, like the angel Gabriel and he appeared to Mary and had sex with Mary and produced the body of Jesus so he claims to be the father of Jesus and he claims to be Michael the archangel and a whole bunch of people in our history especially Biblical ones.

Bryan: Boy you would laugh if you read some of the stuff this guy writes and these people actually believe they are who they say they are.

JJ: I said to Bryan that you need to come to this list and since you are an ex-Mormon you would find this guy kind of interesting so Bryan hopped right on. So anyway I was pretty gentle with the guy and I asked him a several questions and it was about the second or third question I asked him that he condemned me not to hell, but in Mormonism the worst state you can go into is to become a son of perdition and that is where you reign with the devil and his angels where the torment is so great that even the prophets can’t even write about it. So anyway he condemned me to be a son of perdition within about two or three days of me asking him a couple questions, challenging the fact that he may be who he says he is.

So we continued back and forth and then a few days later I felt this really negative energy from him like he had this séance of some type and condemned me to eternal darkness or something. The farther I went with him the more angry he got and he said I was the first one that he had ever condemned to be a son of perdition. I guess I am to be congratulated!

Anyway John Crane made a post to the Keys about this guy who claimed to have translated the seal plates of the book of Mormon. When Joseph Smith brought forth the book of Mormon he said he translated one third of it and two thirds of the plates are sealed because humanity was not ready for what was written on them and the rest will come forth at a later date. Well something must be going in the ethers because in the last five or six years there have been five or six versions of the sealed plates that have come forward but there is this new guy that is particular interesting because he claims to have the gold plates in his possession and the stones of Urim and Thummim. He has a picture of a translation stone on the Internet and it looks like he bought it at local rock shop. He is also going to make a news conference on April 6th.

So anyway I thought this guy sounds kind of interesting so I joined his list and asked him a simple question and I said Joseph Smith had eleven witnesses that witnessed to the book of Mormon that they actually saw the plates and it says in the scriptures that all things shall be established by the mouth of two or three witnesses. I then asked him where are his witnesses that have seen the plates? He wrote back and said several people have seen the plates and they just have not signed anything and he wanted to protect them and keep them out of the limelight.

So I said yes but the scripture says that everything will be established by the mouth of two or three witnesses so he writes me back a scripture that says, God will establish His purposes with as many witnesses that seemeth Him good. He said that it seemeth God good that there is just one witness this time, which was him.

Audience: Chuckling!

JJ: I said yes but look at this scripture, that scripture you quoted in connection with this other one is speaking about the generation of Joseph Smith and this is a different generation. He established as many witnesses that seemed good to Him then and several times I gave him several references where it says that all things will be established in the mouths of two or three witnesses and as a matter of fact the Pharisees and Sadducees even came to Jesus and said all things will be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses and where are your witnesses. It is a principle that has been around a long time.

So then he began to ignore me so then I asked a couple of other questions and I said in your sealed plates it says the celestial kingdom is in Mercury and so I showed him some satellite photograph of Mercury where we sent the mariner over there and took pictures and it looks worse than the moon and it is hot enough there that lead will flow like water and I said this does not look like heaven to me! So around this time he makes a post and he condemns me to be a son of perdition!

Audience: Wow JJ you are very popular with these guys!

JJ: I found this to be very common though that I have been condemned so many times. In a class I was teaching that Artie attended this guy claimed to be channeling God and he condemned me to hell. You should have heard this guy, (In a deep Darth Vader voice) “You have been given one last chance Joseph and if you don’t stop you are going to be extinguished forever!” This guy just got up in one of our meetings and was all of a sudden channeling the big God himself! This seems to follow me around I get condemned everywhere I go including the Mormon Church itself. They condemned me to hell and excommunicated me and after they excommunicated me one of the brethren came to me and said “It is too bad it is not legal to put people to death because if it was I think that is what should happen to you.” Laughing!

And they started out calling themselves the court of love! It is interesting that in the Middle Ages when they were putting people to death who challenged anything, it could be something really small like a person made some comment about the king, religious leader, pope or anything – you could be burned at the stake for this. But to burn a heretic at the stake in those days they had a name for it and do you know what that name was? It was a Spanish term, “auto da fé” that meant, “act of faith.” It was an act of faith in god to burn a heretic. Do you know why they burned them at the stake?

Audience: Guessing?

JJ: They burned them at the stake because the scripture commands against the shedding of blood, so they could not shed their blood so instead they burned them at the stake. This why they burned everybody during the Middle Ages. It was also an act of faith and if you really had guts to do this it was considered that you were acting faithful. Thank God the Founding Fathers came along and established the Constitution. We have a little more freedom today and the law protects people a little more, not as much as people would like perhaps, but it is heaven compared to what it was a couple hundred years ago.

It is amazing how things have changed too; I was reading in a history book not too long ago that when one army conquered another they did terrible things to the leaders of the opposition. They would pour molten lead down their throat, cut off their ears, cut out their tongues and more. If you were the leader of army back in the old days and you lost you were in for a heap of trouble. You probably fought with everything you had to win. I mean Abu Grab was bad but back in those days if you lost the battle you could be certain of a horrible death unless the leader wanted you for some purpose. Then you live for a little while until you had served your usefulness.


Copyright by J J Dewey

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Sarah’s Friend

This entry is part 44 of 62 in the series 2010

Posted Sept 16, 2010
Sarah’s Letter
I needed to vent about this, because sometimes I feel all alone…sometimes I feel like no one else in the world knows about JJ’s teachings, or that no one ever believes me when I tell them. I know this is untrue, however I still feel this way at times.

I moved away from my hometown 6 months ago, and I came back in town this past week. I met up with my college buddy, whom “led me to Christ” in Spring of 2006. He is a very strict Christian, although he does not subscribe to a denomination, but mostly to the Bible…I suppose would be the best way to put it.

Over the past few years, I have felt judged by him…especially since I went through a divorce…and now I live with my boyfriend.

Anyways, I went over to his house tonight, which he shares with other like-minded Christians in a very poor and gang-stricken area of town (as they seek to improve the community through ministry)…and we all had a lovely visit.

At the end of the visit, he walked me out to my car and said, as he usually will ask over the years, “So, how is your Spiritual life going?” I said, “Oh, it’s going great, I have grown a lot. Although, my beliefs do not coincide with yours.” Perhaps this was the wrong approach, although you must know my tone/inflection was not at all condescending, nor know-it-allish, but rather nonchalant and perhaps even humble in a way…if that makes sense.

I was very nervous about seeing him, this trip, because I knew this topic would come up…Christian vs. New Ager convo. type thing that JJ has written about before…I think he always feel like he needs to check up on me…or yanno…make me like him or something…

Then, while we were at my car, and I showed him that I had brought over The Immortal Books 1-3 and Eternal Words for him…as I held them out, thumbing through the pages,..every other page dog eared and marked upon with several different writing utensils…I said to him,

“Yeah, I brought these books, I mentioned them to you last year…I thought maybe you would want to look through them.”

He said,

“Oh is this the guy that thinks he talks to John and records their conversations.”

I said,

“Something like that.”

…while maintaining my stance and grace…as I quasi-confronted the man I once held up on a pedestal as the go-to-guy for all things Jesus.

I attempted to tell him a bit more, as there was a brief pause of silence and I said,

“The books explain and tell a lot about a lot of things, very complex…and really explain what the Bible really says…from the Greek words…”

he said,

“I know a lot of people that are really involved with the original Hebrew, and texts, Jewish people…and I am weary of anyone who claims to run the market as far as what the Bible says, ”

I said, “That’s not what I said….”

He cut me off, and said,

“Yes it is, you said this guy interprets the Bible.”,

as he smiled at me as though I were an ignorant heathen, full of folly and witch spells.

There was this thick, huge wall between us, it was unlike anything I have felt before…

I smiled back at him as I was happy—and prepared—to agree to disagree.

I said I expected him not to want to read them, as I hugged him goodnight, said goodbye, and stepped into my car.

I just wanted to vent…and hope that others have encountered similar scenarios. It has been a tough week for me being back in my hometown, and I am ready to go back to my new home. I feel drained, weary, a bit discouraged, and maybe even alone in these feelings of knowing these truths through every fiber of my being…

I care deeply for this person I briefly confronted tonight, and he knows of a lot of my grave past mistakes (“sins”)…and I feel as though my past as a not ‘high enough caliber of Christian’ (my words—not his) for him is resulting in him not believing any truths I could ever bring to him.

I believe he will always see himself as needing to lift me up in some way…and never vice versa.

Thanks for listening…

JJ’s Response
Thanks for your nice letter Sarah. I think a lot of readers identify with you and have had similar problems, not only with my writings but with any concept outside of mainstream Christian thought, or any other belief system for that matter.

In my own case most of my family are staunch Mormons. Since several family members have left the church or got kicked out because they believe my teachings anything I teach is viewed with great suspicion. I have given a number of my books to various members of the family and when I visit them I never see the books on their bookcase. I suspect the reading matter has been given to the flames.

Among my children I have three boys who are staunch Mormons (thanks to their mom’s strong indoctrination) and I do not believe any of them have read more than a paragraph or two of all my writings in the archives. Even though they are big believers in the scriptures they do not want to talk about them with me.

On the positive side this problem used to exist with my four boys. My oldest boy, Joseph, has left the church and since then has read some of my writings. Then I was overjoyed when he came to the last gathering and had many questions when we talked in private.

He didn’t come around because of anything I said, but things happened in his personal life that made him question the church and that made him more open to listening to me.

For some time now when I get together with family members I do not bring anything up related to my teachings. But if one of them draws first blood I will certainly defend myself and give them something to think about.

Now if I were dealing with a friend like yours I probably would handle it like I do with my family – just talk about the weather and mundane things unless they bring something up.

But if he brings something up defend yourself strongly and give him something to think about. Since my teachings have come up and he doesn’t want to read The Immortal I would give him something shorter and provocative such as Reincarnation and the Bible or The Gods of the Bible. Just the titles alone should get a reaction out of him.

Now another approach that is less likely to cause the hair on his back to raise is to give him some of my writings on The Beast. Almost all Christians are very interested in this subject. Another one would be on Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. I’d be happy to print some things up and send them to you if that helps.

Ruth mentioned my Questions for Deceived Christians. This is good to review for your personal use. I had one guy tell me he uses this all the time and is amazed at how closely fundamentalists Christians respond as predicted there.
Copyright 2010 by J J Dewey