July 19, 2015
Discovering Illusion
We have covered the first two major steps toward liberation which are:
(1) Gaining control over the physical body and the powerful influences of the material world. These include appetite, sex and money, and/or possessions.
(2) Acquiring power over the emotional body and its distorted influences. This includes the ability to maintain inner peace in the face of any emotional attack or insult. Even more difficult is putting the ego, and its desire to magnify its importance, under control. The disciple will search out all glamours that are affecting him and dispel them. If he feels special because he thinks he has some special mission then he will discover how his ego is handling this and put it in check and will see himself as no more special than his brothers and sisters.
The next great hurdle is the world of illusion. By the time he reaches this stage he has had quite a bit of practice using the mind to solve the problems of glamour. There is some illusion built into every glamour that he had to find and dispel using the discriminating power of the mind. The next step is in finding the illusion in his actual belief systems that can stand apart from emotional attachment.
When the disciple approaches the third initiation he has a moment of breakthrough enlightenment followed by an encounter with the Dweller on the Threshold and the Angel of the presence.
We know that Paul had an Angel if the Presence encounter when he was blinded by a great light and heard the voice of Christ. What led up to this is not recorded. Here is probably what happened.
Like most true believers Paul was caught up from the time of his youth in the illusions inherent in his scriptures, his religion and tradition. These illusions led him to persecuting, to the point of imprisonment and death, the sincere members of the new Christian sect. His illusions caused him to sincerely see them as a threat to truth revealed from God that must be eliminated any way possible. His scriptures seemed to sanction death for blasphemers so his mind reasoned that it was within the will of God to kill them if necessary.
Some time before his encounter he started to analyze and question his belief system. He asked himself, “What if I am wrong?” Then mentally went back to the beginning of his established beliefs and substituted pure logic for that which was the traditional belief and analyzed the results. He didn’t like what those results were and suppressed them for a time and amplified his efforts to attack the Christians.
On the road to Damascus he had time to think and the logic of his possible misdirection came back to him. For the first time he truly opened his mind to the real possibility that his whole course in life had been wrong and what the right course may be if God is truly a God of love.
Before the encounter with the blinding light he was met by the Dweller on the Threshold that presented every possible suffering he would have to endure if he changed direction. He saw that he would be ostracized and possibly put to death by his own religion, but even more horrifying was that if he was wrong he would be condemned by God himself and may suffer for eternity. This was a horrifying thought to deal with that was only overcome by focusing on the love of God, and that if he was truly a son that God would accept him.
It was around this time that he encountered the Great Presence that changed his life and purpose.
To pass the Third Initiation the disciple must likewise examine his foundation beliefs and see them as they are and correct them. He may not be chasing and killing Christians, but he is most likely attacking some great truths in an attempt to kill and suppress them.
Giving signs for recognizing the Third Degree Initiate is somewhat futile?
Why?
If I were to merely say that this seeker has seen through his illusions many readers would nod their heads and say, “Yup, that is me. No illusion is holding me hostage.”
The problem with illusions is that the core ones are not seen by the pilgrim until the third initiation process is actually approached. Thus it seems to him that his core beliefs are sound with little or no illusion involved.
As food for thought I will say this. Many of the core illusions veiling the mind from the Angel of he Presence are centered around the Principle of Freedom. Illusions trick the mind of many into thinking that true freedom is dangerous, not to be trusted, but either controlled or suppressed. Then the other side of illusions here are centered toward no structure that leads to anarchy. Only the shattering of illusion accompanied by good judgment can dispel the darkness.
The bottom line is the question, “Are you free from core illusions?” is not helpful.
However, there are signs in the experience of the disciple of the third degree which are:
(1) He will go through an examination of his core beliefs that will cause him to consider making major changes of direction in his life.
(2) He will have a supernatural expedience where he encounters the Dweller on the Threshold. Check out some of my previous writings on his to see what this entails.
(3) This will be followed by an encounter with the Angel of the Presence (which he will interpret as Christ, God or some other great being).
At the Gathering Lorraine asked something to the effect as to whether we are working on more than one initiation at a time. To this I said no, but the answer needs some more details.
We have to pass the first before we can concentrate on the second and the second before the third etc. BUT… As we journey on the path we learn many things before the first that help us pass the first and the second before we pass he second etc.
To pass the third the disciple needs to have a highly developed reasoning mind as well as an open mind. Many lifetimes prepare the seeker for this moment, from initial brain stimulation, to eventually developing reasoning powers, good judgment and many circumstances forcing him to change his mind. Eventually, his own initiatives will change his mind, not outer circumstances.
This is as far as we need to go in this subject for practical purposes. I’ve already written a lot about the higher initiations that can be found in my previous writings.
The disciple is one who realises his responsibility to all units who come under his influence,—a responsibility of co-operating with the plan of evolution as it exists for them, and thus to expand their consciousness and teach them the difference between the real and the unreal, between life and form. This he does most easily by a demonstration in his own life as to his goal, his object, and his centre of consciousness.
Initiation Human and Solar, Pg 72
July 20, 2015
Thanks for your thoughtful letter Joshua. My philosophy in managing the posts here has been to allow maximum freedom to post. If someone becomes too much of a distraction then I will place them on moderation. I placed Jim on moderation once before and he quit but then wrote me a couple friendly emails so I thought I would give him another chance to post unmoderated. Obviously his present insults are over the top and he is just asking to be moderated again. Even though those on moderation can still post anything that is civil that is not a big distraction he will most likely quit again if moderated. Perhaps it is no fun to post if he cannot ridicule us.
Jim has obviously been a seeker throughout his life and has gathered considerable knowledge and experience. Then when he found his living master who initiated him he seems to have concluded that his quest has come to and end and after death he will live in eternal bliss with no need of further incarnation.
It appears though that further incarnation may be needed as he seems to have a huge hole in his learning curve. A most important ingredient for a true journey on the path is the cultivation of love, friendship and brotherhood. I, along with others, have attempted to extend these qualities to him and in return have received criticism, insults and inflammatory statements. It makes me wonder if he has a friend in the world, for who wants to hang out with someone who returns kindness with insults? One can see why he has not gathered a group on the internet.
I generally avoid people like that. Jim is different than most people that turn mean spirited on me in that he has shown a desire to share, entertain and capable of reasonable humor. I still think he is capable of good things but to realize them he must establish right human relations and seek to love us as much as he does the animals he refuses to eat.
Have you noticed that this is a problem of many who come here causing a disturbance? How much love do you feel from them, how much real sense of brotherhood? Was the hand of friendship extended? Did kindness come through?
I try and set the example here and show love, friendship and kindness to all. If such attempts prove fruitless I do not return evil for evil, but just place m energies where they will be more appreciated.
And now Jim, you have caused enough distraction here so please, in any future posts, cease with the insults, or you will be placed on moderation.
I am sure many wish I had already placed you on moderation, but I believe in extending maximum latitude.
***
Stauffenberg’s Motives
Jim writes:
I saw the movie, way before ever knowing you. I thought he was a Nazi in the movie. He rose pretty high in Hitler’s Ranks going along with the extermination of Jews, Gypsies, and Mentally ill German Citizens before his conversion…
JJ
Wow, Jim you put the worst possible spin on everyone you do not see as a saint. You distorted history on Bush, now Stauffenberg and probably would me if you had the chance.
Wait. You kinda did that already by searching out and throwing at us an obscure anti Keys site.
Now to Stauffenberg. His two main biographers agree that he did not know of Hitler’s atrocities before 1942. Here is what was written after he learned about them:
Claus Stauffenberg’s radical change of position came in 1942, and it was provoked by the crimes of the regime – the mass murder of Jews, Poles, Russians, prisoners-of-war. The available evidence shows that other issues were secondary.
In May 1942 Stauffenberg was informed of the mass murder of Jews by Lieutenant (Res.) Hans Herwarth von Bittenfeld, a former member of the German embassy in Moscow who had served in the campaigns in Poland and Russia and since March 1942 had been working in Foreign Office Section XIII (occupied and unoccupied USSR) under the former Ambassador Friedrich Werner, Count Schulenburg. Also in May 1942, Stauffenberg and Herwarth received an eye-witness report from an officer about how some SS men had rounded up the Jews in a Ukrainian town, led them to a field, made them dig their own mass grave, and then shot them. Upon hearing this report Stauffenberg said that Hitler must be removed. He believed that the senior commanders had the duty to put this into effect.
During the second or third outing, in August 1942, Stauffenberg said suddenly: ‘They are shooting Jews in masses. These crimes must not be allowed to continue.’
In 1943 he declared that no sacrifice would be too great to have the mass-murderers of the Jews prosecuted by German authorities, before the Allies did so after Germany’s inevitable defeat.
Quotes from Peter Hoffman’s Biography on Stauffenberg
It is amazing that he spoke up at all when considering the danger of expressing such opinions. You do not hear of anyone in the military in North Korea or Cuba speaking up against any disagreement.
Hoffman says that the conspiracy’s main foundation was on the opposition to Hitler because of his atrocities.
As far as him being a Nazi he says:
The Stauffenbergs were not governed by a ‘world view’, but rather by the rejection of thought systems. Claus Stauffenberg never inclined towards any political party. A close friend said that if Claus had ever thought in earnest about political parties he would have formed one himself.
To say that Stauffenberg was a Nazi because circumstances forced him to work under Hitler is like saying I am a Democrat because I have to labor under Obama.
Here is another biographer’s account of an incident of Stauffenberg dealing with the Nazis back in 1934:
On 16 September 1934, Stauffenberg and a colleague were sent as representatives of their regiment to attend an official Party Day lecture in Bamberg. The speaker was the notorious Gauleiter (provincial Party boss) of Nuremberg, Julius Streicher, perhaps the most obscenely vicious of Nazi racial theoreticians-a man whose charisma was matched, if not positively exceeded, by his nastiness. Stauffenberg already harboured a personal grudge against Streicher, who had published an attack on Stefan George. At the lecture, Streicher launched into one of his customary pornographic castigations of Jews. So offensive did Stauffenberg find this torrent of rancid rhetoric that he did what, in the context, amounted to the unthinkable. He was a tall man, and conscious of his height. Accompanied by his colleague, he suddenly stood up, left his seat, stalked down the central aisle of the hall and proceeded to the exit. Here he was intercepted and stopped by SS personnel, obviously annoyed at the conspicuousness of his action; but the SS, at this date, could not afford to alienate the army, still less a dynamic and promising young officer of Stauffenberg’s social status and aristocratic pedigree. After a brief verbal altercation, he and his colleague elbowed their way past the black- clad minions and out of the premises.
From Secret Germany by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh
Doesn’t sound like he was impressed with Nazi doctrine and it is an historical fact that he gave his life fighting against Hitler and his Nazi doctrines.
July 21, 2015
Proof of Life After Death
Robert was questioning the many views of an afterlife thinking from the point that there may not be one at all or it may be much different than we think. For instance, maybe we just hop from one body to another after death.
First let us talk about evidence of life after death. One of the most powerful arguments for it, and rarely used, is the fact that you now exist. Why is this evidence? Because science has discovered that anything that exists cannot be proven to ever be destroyed. Matter may at times seem to be destroyed, but it is not. Instead it is merely converted into pure energy, which can then be converted back into matter.
Even so, there is something that exists beyond the physical that makes you what you are. Logic tells us that this something will persist and cannot be destroyed any more than matter can.
Close your eyes and try to imagine a time when your essence will not exist and never will again. I cannot.
The second most powerful proof of life after death concerns a subject shunned by orthodoxy in the Western world – reincarnation. If you and I are reborn again and again in different bodies then obviously something survives death to live again.
I have proven reincarnation to myself, but some of the most powerful evidence is very personal so I will move on to other evidence.
Here are some comments from my book Eternal Lives about evidence produced by Ian Stevenson who investigated thousands of people who remembered past lives.
This conscious remembering is not as rare as many may think and this phenomenon caught the attention of Dr. Ian Stevenson, the former head of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia, about forty years ago. Since that time he has traveled the world studying these people and has accumulated about 3000 cases in his files.
Most of the more amazing cases occur with young children just a couple years old who are just learning to speak. As a general rule they remember the past life for a couple years and lose the memory around the age of five or six.
In a typical situation the child may insist that her parents are not really her parents, but that her true parents (and perhaps spouse) are in another city or part of the country). Dr. Stevenson tries to catch these children before they had a chance to visit their home of a previous life and take them there and scientifically examine their response. In many cases the child’s memory of a past life is proven, for the name given out is discovered to be a real person who died. The child is then taken to the home of her past life and will identify dozens of memories that she could have not acquired in this life. If there is some secret hiding place he or she will identify this. If there are favorite possessions, these will be pointed out.
In one case a young girl identified a previous spouse who refused to believe that the little girl was his dead wife reborn. She gave identification after identification of information only the wife could have known, but still the guy was unconvinced. In desperation the little girl pulled him aside and step by step told him exactly what she did to him when they made love as husband and wife. That did the trick. The man was convinced.
Basically Dr. Stevenson likes to get about twenty-four items of identification from the child of things that she could have not known, about the family and circumstances of the past life before he will take it seriously or even write about it.
Perhaps even more startling than the evidences derived from recalling past lives is Dr. Stevenson’s more recent work on corresponding birthmarks from one life to the next. He discovered that if one has a wound, particularly one that caused death, such as a gunshot, that the person will often have a birthmark in the exact placed where the wound was in a past life. What is even more fascinating is that if the person received a bullet wound which penetrated the body and left an exit hole that the entity will have a birthmark at both the point of entrance and exit.
Even more interesting is that the exit wound is larger than the entrance, and when the corresponding birthmarks are examined he found that the birthmark at the location of the exit wound was also much bigger.
Dr. Stevenson examined 895 children, who remembered past lives, for birthmarks, corresponding to wounds and found related birthmarks on 309 of them or 35%.
The chances of this happening are very miniscule. The average adult has about 17 square feet of skin stretching over his body. That is 2448 square inches. Now the chances of finding a birthmark on the same square inch of the body in a current life as a wound in a past life is 2448:1. The chances of finding a birthmark on the same square inch of both an exit and entrance wound is much greater: 5,992,704 to one, yet Stevenson turned up this startling evidence time and time again.
The interesting thing about the birthmark study is that the “tricky devil:” theory is even more ridiculous. To believe the devil is bouncing around stamping birthmarks on children defies all logic.
If there is something that survives death and moves on to another body then there is something that has to exist between lives. It is not logical to assume we just jump from one body to another as there are seven billion people on the earth today whereas earlier in our history there were only a few million. Where were the extra billions back then? They had to exist apart from the physical plane.
Michael Newton conducted a breakthrough investigation into what happens to us between lives. He took over 3000 people back using deep hypnosis that required three hour sessions to achieve. What makes for interesting evidence is the consistency of the testimony that came from a wide variety of subject some of whom were agnostics or even atheists.
Additional evidence is supplied by others who have done similar investigations into the afterlife as they come up with the same details.
Newton’s subjects did more than just reveal a nebulous afterlife but gave many interesting detailed descriptions of what happens there.
In a nutshell he revealed that most wander the lower etheric/astral realms for a while and then return to the spirit world to their soul group where they are reunited with their soul. Afterwards they experience a life review assisted by 2-5 elder souls. Rather than being a condemning judgment the review merely assesses how he did in his last life and what he an do to prepare for the next.
There are archives of libraries there containing the history of each soul as well as the history of our planet.
Before we incarnate we see a projection of how that life is likely to work out so we will be aware of what we are getting into.
There are clues we create in advance so we will recognize people who are important to us. I know the clue I had for my wife was the first time I saw her handwriting.
He says that each soul has a different color depending on his state of evolution. Unlike here you can tell how far along the path another is by merely checking out his color. He points out that many who came to him thinking they were far along and thought they were on their last life were surprised to find out they were really a newer soul when their coloring was revealed. Each soul group has the same basic color.
These are just a few points that have been very consistent in life between life recollections brought forth by Newton and others.
The most noted evidence of life after death is from the near death experiences. So many of these have been revealed that even some standard scientists have studied the phenomenon. They are perplexed that memories can be retrieved from a time period when the heart was not beating and the brain had ceased from functioning. What is even more baffling is that some have reported leaving their bodies and encountering events and conversations away from the hospital room and accurately recalling them.
A final evidence is produced by many who have had out of body experiences. This work was pioneered by Robert Monroe. He and his students not only give evidence that that there is more to us than the physical but a number of out of body experiences include visits with those who have long passed on from this life.
The greatest proof of all are experiences achieved through soul contact but such things are not allowed to be introduced as concrete proof. Even so, the senses of the soul are much more real than those of the physical body.
Overall, the concrete evidence of life after death is pretty potent and few non believers have examined them all. If they do then few honest people could deny that the evidence powerfully suggests that there is more for us to experience after the death of the physical body.
***
Doctrines of Devils
Ken, I hope you realize that I was making an attempt to display my humorous side. Now let us look at the scripture seriously. It says:
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Now this could apply to you, me, both of us or neither. Which is it? Maybe a more complete quote would provide the answer.
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. I Tim 4:1-5
Okay, the bad guys Paul talks about are identified as doing the following. Do they apply to either of us?
(1) Speaking lies in hypocrisy;
I do not speak lies in nor out of hypocrisy. I think you have mistaken beliefs, but see no evidence that you lie.
(2) having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
This applied to many who resorted to persecution and other harmful acts. I know I have a good guiding conscience and see no evidence that you do not have one.
(3) Forbidding to marry
As far as I know both of us support marriage and do not forbid anyone from it.
(4) commanding to abstain from meats
I haven’t commanded anyone to abstain from meat, have you? I don’t think so.
Conclusion: It looks like neither you or I are guilty of the doctrines of devils that Paul was revering to. Maybe we should cease from any accusations on the matter. After all, who is called the accuser of the brethren?
“…for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” Rev 12:18
***
Larry W
JJ also said that Sanat is counted as a “rebel” among his peers. Just transpose the n and the t so Sanat becomes Satan. I (we) have no way to positively verify this idea. So I guess this falls to our resident Seer. What do you think, JJ?
JJ
I do not think Sanat Kumara is a fallen Lucifer as he is identified as one of the seven great Spirits before the throne of God by DK – even though he presides over a non sacred planet.
The problem is that the name Lucifer, as used by Christians, only refers to Satan whereas most Lucifers have not fallen, as Jesus is called a Lucifer (Morning Star) in the Book of Revelation.
DK did indicate that Sanat was a rebel but I think he was stressing that he is attempting techniques that are not done by other Logoi.
The thing to always look at is the real manifestations of Good and evil and where they come from.
***
Clay:
And you made my point or me. I disagree with you and now you claim that I call evil good and good evil. That is exactly what is wrong with your teaching paradigm and your entre world view JJ.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong
The problem was not that you disagreed with me. The problem was that you label harmless things as evil – such as Blayne’s lighthearted comments. Get a life, man.
Clay
People can not just disagree with you, or have a difference of opinion with you, you have to label all disagreement with you as evil.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong & Double wrong and you cannot give one feeble example to support this crazy minded accusation.
Clay
That is exactly what authoritarians dictators do.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Equating anything I have done here with an authoritarian dictator is mean spirited to the extent that Alan looks like an angel. What the hell is the mater with you???
Clay
so maybe Jim was correct in his criticism of you. Even before I ever posted on this forum by Richard that my political views would be attacked ruthlessly on this forum, and I a Tuvalu blew it off as you seemed really reasonable in spiritual exchanges, but turns out he was totally right. I truly, truly expected better of you.
JJ
You are not making any sense here. What have you been smoking? The last post we received from Richard was praising me for being more accepting than Allan.
Clay: Again, i am just pointing out your total inconsistency in treatment between Blayne and Jim.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong
You have only done this in your wild imagination.
Clay
I must be a member of the dark brotherhood if I disagree with you.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Almost everyone on this forum has disagreed with me including Dan lwk, Ruth and most others. And they are not part of any dark brotherhood. You have no idea of what I am talking about when I use this term. Where you getting these crazy ideas???
Clay:
So of course how would I ever know good from evil.
JJ
Using the quality of your logic lately that is a good question.
Clay:
Also, I don’t believe in good or evil.
JJ
That explains a lot. Those who cut off the heads of those who do not conform are just as good as you are. Yeah, right. You have been an irritation lately, but I would hope you see yourself as good in relation to the head-cutting-off bunch. Maybe not.
Clay
I believe in positive and negative karma. I do not acknowledge the existence of evil as anything real. Evil is an illusion.
JJ
So when the evil dudes cut off heads, the heads do not really roll because all is illusion??? You are a piece of work indeed.
Clay
Again JJ if your master DK is so advanced he should mention something about Tulpa’s and egregores in his teachings.
JJ
He spent a lot of time on these but called them thoughtforms. You need to get informed before you mindlessly lash out.
Clay;
No one is opposing you
JJK
So you are calling yourself a nobody then? At least we are seeing some humility here.
Clay
or out to sabotage your special mission to the world.
JJ
I am not complaining.
Clay
You are not that important. Neither am I, the difference s I am ok with that.
JJ
I don’t think so. You seem to think you are much more important than I.
Clay:
Hey we all want to feel like we matter, I totally get it, and you do matter, you just aren’t any more special or chosen than anyone else on this planet.
JJ
And you are saying this because??? Sounds like a false humility in a feeble attempt to feel important.
Clay:
But hey, do whatever gets you through the day. I don’t think you are evil JJ,
JJ
Why the change of thought here? Feeling a little guilty are we?
Clay
just a little arrogant and authoritarian, despite your professed libertarianism.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You cannot back this up. Just another mindless accusation.
Clay
Also less delusional than Allan. I also don’t take sides.
JJ
You are deceiving yourself. You are into black and white, light and dark, good and evil as much as the Fundamentalists. You are just fooling yourself.
Clay:
But hey, I can’t follow a logical argument or tell good from evil and have the mark of the beast so what do I know.
JJ
That has nothing to do with my teachings on the mark of the beast. If you really understood what I say you wouldn’t be so contrary.
Sometimes you come across as someone who is contrary for the sake of being contrary.
We once stood together against unreasonable accusations on Allan’s list. Now I have to deal with another Allan type of unreasonableness.
Can anything good come out of Allan’s forum?
***
Clay:
Jim was being singled out and treated differently because he does not tow the keister line.
JJ
That is just plain silly. One of the main rules here is to treat each other civilly. I usually give a warming first as I did with Jim and he ignored it so I put him on moderation, But even on moderation he can post as long as it is civil.
I didn’t bellyache when Allan put me on moderation – and for not for breaking any rule as did Jim..
Clay
JJ however sees Jim’s statement as pure evil.
JJ
Wrong Wrong Wrong. Where do you get such crazy ideas?
Clay
There are mean people, malicious people, sadistic people, but no person is evil. There are mean people, malicious people, sadistic people, but no person is evil. People will do awful, terrible things to each other, but no, an bad action does not make a person evil, not even your arch nemesis Hitler.
JJ
Most people would call someone like Hitler evil. You must have some weird definition that is not in the dictionary. You can’t really reason with someone who has floating ephemeral definition of words. You are a moving target.
July 22, 2015
Noah
“Suppose one more soul would have repented and entered the ark with Noah? Today he would probably have about a billion descendants that would praise his name for making the effort to live according to the witness he received. As it is, there is not the name of one person or his children who lived at the time of Noah who is remembered on the earth today. Even Noah is not remembered for his success as a preacher, but his name is great today merely because he obeyed the Lord and physically survived. “
I thought that God hand picked Noah and his family, as the only humans alive who were supposed to be saved, at the time of the Great Flood? Noah had found Grace in the Eyes of the Lord.
In Genesis 6-9, it states that God wanted to destroy every corrupt living human and animal on Earth with the flood.
Therefore, who are the other souls who should have repented, and entered the Ark with Noah?
Also, is the physical manifestation of the Gathering of Lights in Zion, like a type of Noah’s Ark? I know that you have written something to the effect, that once the Lights on Earth all shift to one spot on Earth, then this will cause something like a magnetic reversal, because it will move the poles of Earth.
***
Good and Evil
Clay:
I do not subscribe to any belief system that divides the world into the good team am the bad team. ISiIs does many horrorific things we should try to see them as damaged humans, not evil ones.
JJ
You are spinning your wheels attempting to create division over arguing about the meaning of words. It all depends on how one defines evil as to how such a thing manifests. If a person defines evil as eating peas then that is evil by the way he defines the term and you need to communicate with him using this realization. If this “damaged” head cutting off bunch are defined as evil because of such “damage” then that would be evil by definition – and it would also conform to the dictionary. Something IS in the English language because we define it so. If we do not define our words then we cannot communicate.
You cannot communicate with us about good and evil because you do not use any standard definition. If you are going to use a definition that is not in the dictionary then you should define the word do you can make some sense. Why even use a word that has no existence behind it? The fact that you use the word ”evil” so often (much more than I do) shows that you do believe in it. You appear to think it is spiritual to not believe so you put yourself in that elite category. That must feel so smug.
If you believe in good then you have to believe in evil for we live in a world of duality. If there us hot there must be cold. If there is and up there must be down etc. If you believe in “up” but not “down” then you will still fall down when you stumble. Saying you do not believe in “down” changes nothing. It just makes you look silly.
You appear to see anyone being evil if they use the word evil for you attack them as a believer would attack an evil person.
Clay
I will pray for those who persecute me and love those who hate me, even you and JJ
JJ
I do not hate you or persecute anyone but do find it annoying that you put words in my mouth time and time again and now are accusing me of hating you while portraying yourself as a saint praying for me.
Clay:
I do know that Christianity conquered Rome not through armed self defense, but through non violent resistance.
JJ
You are mixed up here. It was Rome that conquered Christianity and after the conquest proceeded toward many bloody wars in the name of Christ.
I generally advocate non violence but there is a time and place for everything. Sometimes in the defense of freedom, such as World War II, you have to respond with force.
Mystics were dead wrong in many cases. Just because someone is or was a mystic does not make him correct. Often the path of non action is merely the path if avoidance opening the door to great “damage.”
“Damage” triumphs when good men do nothing.
***
Clay:
Imagine if you were teaching a class on Spanish and someone who signed up for the class started interrupting the course incessantly with statements such as.
You shouldn’t be teaching Spanish. French is the right one to learn. If you are enlightened you will learn French.
You think I am evil if I speak French in class.
Your sourcebooks are all wrong. They do not even teach good Spanish.
And your teacher has no idea what he is talking about for he only mumbles balderdash.
This is what you are doing in this class.
Okay, we get your point, you do not agree with anything any of us seem to believe, even though, contrary to your belief, our main source material is the living soul whereas yours is dead mystics.
Fine. We get your point. You think the members here are a bunch of backward hicks.
Point taken.
Now let us move on and discuss the topics I introduce here and cease from the disruption. Many students are waiting for further teachings and all you are doing is interfering. This is a disappointment because you have the talent to add things in a positive way, but such a direction does not seem to enter your head.
If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven. What many people call sin is not sin; I do many things to break down superstition, and I will break it down.
Joseph Smith, Jr.
***
Correcting the Record
Clay:
Some of JJ teachings run contrary to both those of Buddha and Jesus. I stand by that.
JJ
You stand by it but do not prove you point, but only find fault with nothing to back it up.
Clay
Jesus and Buddha both taught voluntary poverty,
JJ
They taught to not be attached to physical possessions, which is different than teaching poverty. Jesus never taught poverty and Buddha taught against extremism. He lived in extreme wealth and extreme poverty and said neither supported the path to enlightenment.
How about posting a picture of where you live and the car you drive to show us an example of your poverty? Or are you beyond practicing what you preach?
Clay
JJ endorses prosperity teaching.
JJ
First I heard of this, though there is nothing wrong in poverty or riches if correctly used.
Clay
Jesus and Buddha were unequivocal in their renunciation of lethal force.
JJ
Again no proof is cited.
There is a time and place for everything:
Luke 22:36 Then said he (Jesus) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Matt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
and in righteousness he (Christ) doth judge and make war. Rev 19:11
Clay
I am not setting up straw men, I am arguing over JJ’s direct teachings.
JJ
You aren’t presenting any arguments. You are just making declarations with nothing to back them up except your own authority, which seems to be enough for you.
Clay:
JJ tells us in his books that this type of sacrifice is no longer needed in the new age.
JJ
As usual you do not represent me correctly. I have taught that they keynote of the age of Pisces is sacrifice and that of Aquarius is Service. This doesn’t mean that sacrifice is no longer needed, but that is not where the emphasis of the teachings of this age will be. We will take the lessons of sacrifice and incorporate them as the human race learns the lessons of service.
Clay:
show me where I have misrepresented JJ’s teachings?
JJ
I just did. I could go on but am limited on time.
Clay
I do not believe he understands Buddhism or Christianity with the insight he claims.
JJ
And I do not believe you understand them either. You never back anything up, but just declare what you believe. I’ve written books on Buddhism and Christianity. What have you done?
Clay
Allan Watts if you have ever read him has illustratef the great truths in both on those religions,
JJ
And I could name a hundred authors who have written books. That says nothing to back up any point you make.
Clay
JJ has created a hodge podge of theosophy blended together with Mormonism.
JJ
All the ammunition you gave is to ridicule. You never quote what I say and comment on it but just say I am wrong. That us an extremely weak approach.
Clay
So far all I see is people telling me I am wrong with zero supporting argument or evidence. If there is a dark brotherhood, prove it.
JJ
You have it backward in dealing with me. I have written millions of words backing up my teachings. What do you have to back yours up outside of declarations of belief and telling us to read books.
Clay:
Again I am perfectly fine if JJ disagrees with me, but JJ seems to get his feelings hurt when people disagree with him, especially on political issues.
JJ
I think it is the other way around. You seem to be really bent out of shape because I do not think the same as you politically. My feelings are not hurt if someone disagrees with me. Now, name calling and false accusations are something else and such things break the forum rules and show a mean spirit.
A number of comments you make sound as if you take my fiction books as 100% truth. The Immortal series is a blend of fact and fiction as far as the story line goes with the teachings to be as true as I am able to write them. The millions of other words I have written contain no fiction, save a few parables.
Clay
But he should maybe tone down his messiah complex a bit, and just seek to help others come to a broader understanding of spirituality,
JJ
Maybe you see some false messiah complex in me because you are looking in the mirror at yourself. Just one more mean spirited, unloving, unjustified accusation with absolutely nothing to back it up.
Clay:
I just take his more grandiose claims with a bit of skepticism.
JJ
Another false accusation. I make no grandiose claims.
Clay
I do not see JJ as my teacher, or father, he seems to be my equal, so I will treat him as such, as should you.
JJ
We do treat each other here as equals here, but we are all at different stages on the path possessing different knowledge on different things. Don’t tell me you are going to be like Allan and spend many posts trying to teach us and then insist you are not a teacher.
People come hear to learn what I have to teach. I made the mistake of inviting you and Jim here who have no interest in anything I teach so it turns out all you do is distract the group from what it is they have chosen to learn. Posts like yours force me to delay my next teaching post and answer all kinds of false statements and accusations.
If this s not the environment you want then we are fine with the idea that you drop out and find a group that will accept you.
That may be difficult as I know of no other group who wants to be saturated with accusations and distortions of their thinking while being preached to of the love of Jesus.
***
Clay:
The difference is JJ I did not see this as a Spanish Class.
JJ Then you must be the only one with an imagination wild enough to not see my point. Of course, this is not a Spanish class but it matters not what you teach, the teacher must keep the students focused on the material with a minimum of distractions.
Clay:
In high level intellectual classes as long as the opinion expressed is on topic, all sides and points of views are expressed.
JJ
If this is what you think then why are you never on topic but try and set your own agenda? I do not recall you commenting on any teaching post I have made. Instead, you conjure up what I do not teach and comment on that. This approach would not be accepted by any teacher out there. Most students here think I am way too tolerant of off topic challenges.
Clay
A good teacher does not get upset when students disagree, even vehemently, he allows the dissuasion as long as the views are supported with decent argument.
JJ
You have no power to upset me and no one upsets me by merely disagreeing. I find it unacceptable to insult, make false accusations and divert the class away from the things they came here to learn. That is very selfish to get the class centered around the one at the expense of the interests of the many.
Clay:
This is not a Spanish Class. This is supposed to be a spiritual classroom where you teach on the ideas of Jess, Buddha, an other spiritual teachers. So from what I can tell, my post are perfectly on topic.
JJ
There are thousands of topics in spirituality and you have not been on topic. You only lead us away from what we want to discuss. You want to talk about duality, but we have already spent months and hundreds of thousands of words discussing every aspect of it. Older members just sigh when this overworn subject is brought up again. It is strange how almost every contrarian that comes here preaches to us the same things about duality with the fervor of a fundamentalist Baptist.
Duality is not on topic, especially if nothing new on the subject is addressed.
Clay:
I am also not interferon (interfering) with any of your ability to teach or for anyone to learn. If you choose to respond to my post repeatedly, that is solely on you, same with every other forum member on here.
JJ
If I do not respond to people who accuse I get asked as to why I do not respond by some. However, I am just about done responding and will put you on moderation if necessary to get us back on track as you cause quite a few others to digress also.
So please, be kind like the Jesus you advocate and cease to accuse just to be accusing and throw in some constructive thinking and ideas on the subjects at hand as we move along.
You seem to be treating Richard with some respect and you did me in he beginning so it is within your ability to do this.
July 24, 2015
Astrology and Past Lives
Adam writes:
How significant is an astrological birth chart to an astrological death chart in the identification of a past life? I assume two such charts could have numerous parallels and yet be mere coincidence, just based upon the numbers of birth/death occurrences, and the cyclical nature of charts. So, is it merely something to consider as additional evidence of a suspected past life, or is there some real evidence to consider when comparing similarities of things like, Sun, Rising, and other signs . . .???
JJ
Good question. I have never done a death chart nor have I heard of any other astrologer using one. If your birth chart tells us of energies at play during life them maybe a death chart would give energies at play in the immediate life after death.
It would be interesting to compare a number of death charts to future lives.
What some have done in an attempt to prove reincarnation is to compare the natal chart of a supposed past life to a current one. David Wilcock, who believes he is a reincarnation of Edgar Cayce has done this. Here is the site where he makes the comparison.
LINK
The problem with looking for similarities is that we often select entirely new influences for ourselves as we will be dealing with new challenges as we progress from life to life. Therefore, it is unlikely that one will be able to prove reincarnation by similarities in natal charts.
The exception may be a failed life where the soul tries to retrace its steps in a new life. A person who commits suicide in one life may wind up with some close similarities in another. On the other hand, a soul in a high state of progression may enter a new life with striking contrasts to the other in his new natal chart.
Astrologers generally believe the nodes of the moon give us hints about karma we have to deal with from past lives. Here is one person’s interpretation of the nodes:
The SOUTH MOON NODE is symbolic of your past, your Achilles Heel—the footsteps you have left behind during prior lifetimes. It signifies the karmic residue that you have yet to balance or transmute. The magnetic pull of your SOUTH MOON NODE can feel like a heavy burden that you are carrying until its lessons are learned—it may pull you backward if you are not consciously aware of its presence and choosing to move forward toward your NORTH MOON NODE.
THE NORTH MOON NODE is the symbol for the future—the new cycle to which your look forward. This Node magnetically pulls your Soul toward its future growth. Divine Providence offers much help in this forward movement. Deep within, you will feel a sense of direction … your purpose spurs you on in spite of all the obstacles. Your NORTH MOON NODE “symbolizes the highest area of expression to be reached in the current life and therefore must be interpreted by the highest qualities of the sign and house in which it is located.”
“The most amazing feature about the NORTH MOON NODE is that however much [you] achieve it, there is always more to go—as it truly represents [your] everlasting spiral towards God.”
LINK
Another theory is that retrograde planets in a chart indicate negative past life karma that must be worked out.
DK gives some additional food for thought. He tells us that most of us progress around the zodiac in a clockwise motion, until we enter our last round and perform the Twelve Labors of Hercules in twelve different lives (or cycles). Then we move counterclockwise.
I believe that this is a general rule of direction and not a black and white thing. From my investigations it seems that there is a general trend of the soul to move in order but not exact enough to be able to predict the sign that one will be born into in the next life.
Another thing he said was that a person’s death date will determine a future birth date. From my own research I found this sometimes happens but generally does not. Either he is mistaken or Alice A. Bailey left something out in the transmission. It is quite possible that the time of death will indicate a future life, but not necessarily the one in the immediate future. Similarly as we pass through the zodiac we will often take a break from our next hurdle and choose a natal chart to our liking.
Our free will is always a factor with any event that occurs to us.
Now David Wilcock, who claims to be Edgar Cayce, may be one of the few out there making a claim who is correct. There are some interesting similarities between the two.
He was born in the same sign as Cayce which would indicate unfinished work in that sign from the last life. On the other hand, his birth direction was clockwise indicating he is not yet a high initiate.
Cayce died on Jan 3 1945 and Wilcock was born March 8, 1973 so there is no relation here between the death and birth day.
It would be nice if we could use astrology for concrete purposes and as a means for exact predictions, but such is not he case. Astrology deals with energies and their influences and because each of us handles energies differently exactness in prediction or the discovery of past lives cannot be something on which we can depend.
Copyright 2015 by J J Dewey
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