Cycles of Lives
I went a number of rounds with my critical friend, a Crème supporter. Some of the members grew bored with the exchange so I have edited a lot of it out. I did say this to him:
You remind me of my late brother-in-law. He’s the only person I have met who has been able to get me to “cry uncle” in an argument. This is different than getting the best of another in an argument, a thing which he was unable to do, but he did manage to wear me down.
Here’s the way it went. I would bring up a point of doctrine that ran contrary to his church doctrine and quoted him a scripture as evidence. Instead of avoiding me as most family members do, (regarding discussing religion) he would kindly take me on.
He would state that I was taking the scripture out of context and bring out the good book and open it. If I quoted verse twenty in a chapter of 40 verses he would begin reading at the first verse and analyzing it in detail. After a couple hours we would reach verse 6 or 7 with him analyzing each in detail. So far verses 1-7 had nothing to do with the meaning of verse 20, but he was undaunted and was determined to continue.
It was about this point that I excused myself and visited with someone else or changed the subject to something simple like nuclear physics. (He was a nuclear physicist).
The feeling I get with you is similar to that experienced with my brother-in-law. I give out a couple sentences to provoke thought or make a quote or two and you seek to overwhelm me by the sheer volume of your words – far too many to comment on in this forum.
Some are growing impatient with me forwarding your posts, not only because they are negative, but because they are too long for busy people to read.
I passed this last post, but if you want to insure others get passed, you need to do three things.
(1) Discuss or argue what I have said, not with that which I do not say.
(2) Try and be a bit more concise. Brevity is the soul of wit – and gaining interest. Cease trying to wear us down with volume of words and long quotes.
(3) Try to find something you agree with once in a while and add to it rather than only be a negative force that subtracts.
That said I will give brief comments on a couple items.
Critic: In the quote DK spoke about the many “septenary lives” – meaning; the lives utilizing the septenary of rays as a personality ray.
JJ: But that is not what he said. He was talking about cyclic manifestation of rays into 49 groups on the third subplane, but “septenary lives” is different than septenary rays. Septenary lives would mean seven lives or cycles of lives, plane and simple and his statement “In the course of his many septenary lives” tells us he is talking about many groupings of seven lives – not seven rays. The word “life” has different meaning than “ray.”
This is his obvious meaning unless the writing did not come out as he intended.
Critic: That term is about the personality ray and not about incarnations as male and female, nor can a rightly applied analogy be made.
JJ: He doesn’t say it is about the personality ray. My point was not that the septenary lives referred to was about being male or female, but that he was affirming the basic principle that there are cycles of seven lives. He was probably referring to this as a general principle without being specific.
If life manifests through the energy of the rays through a septenary principle then it is logical that this could be applied to other energies.
Let me quote again: “Under the particular type of cyclic force emanating from the Lodge, the high-water mark of its activity is to be found once in every seven cycles.”
My point is that the cycle of seven keeps showing up again and again in relation to energy.
Reader: nor can a correct correspondence be made.
JJ: You give no intelligent reason why not. The cycle of seven repeats itself in “lives” energy, ray manifestation etc. Name an energy that is not affected by the cycle of seven.
Critic: If it were true, “as a general rule”, which JJ claims, that the soul incarnates in a cycle of seven lives male and seven lives female – DK would have mentioned it – even briefly.
JJ: DK did not mention UFO’s, but I know you believe in them. Why do you believe such when DK did not even briefly mention something so important?
Keep in mind that the teaching in question is about cycles of seven lives which can manifest as seven or more lives.
Critic: Likewise, I have continued to point out that the Law of Correspondence cannot be applied to the Law of Cycles for the purpose of validating your theory.
JJ: So, the Law of Correspondences works for whatever you want to teach, but if I teach a principle then you think the law does not apply
I don’t think so. The Law of Correspondences can be used to give credibility to any teaching.
Whenever DK speaks of energy, he talks about cycles of seven in relation to it. There is no energy in our world which is not affected by these septenary cycles – especially the most basic energy in the universe – positive and negative.
It takes little intelligence to destroy and find fault, but it takes strength of character to build, and to reveal that which is inspired requires a holy focus on the good, the beautiful and the true.
Another reader writes:
Surely with all the positive affirmations that your teachings get the critic’s negative approach actually helps to restore some balance?
JJ: Anyone who has been in the group a few years will know that I have tolerated and answered many attacking my teachings to the point of risking the alienation of many of my good friends here
Those asking questions or challenging because of sincerely seeking do provide balance. Also some balance is achieved by handling outright attacks. What many find tedious and out of balance is to argue for arguments sake – to automatically take the other side no matter what is presented. This can throw the group out of balance in the other direction.
Again, good judgment is the key.
Reader: Your critic’s main argument seems to be that he can find no evidence of DK teaching anything about a “general rule” of seven lives male and seven lives female. He claims that your ideas are actually out of harmony with what DK is teaching. For him this invalidates your rule. This is a perfectly logical and reasonable objection based upon the fact that you use the writings of DK as evidence to justify your thinking here.
JJ: No one is faulting him for using DK. I only fault him for using DK and then not accepting what is quoted.
The Critic quoting JJ: Then he gives a long quote that does not refute my point indicating that the rays manifest in cycles.
Critic: Of course the rays manifest in cycles!
JJ: I am glad we agree on this now.
You previously disagreed with me on this and said that the soul chooses our rays and they are not cyclic in the personality bodies.
I asked you to supply me with evidence from DK that the soul chooses the personality rays and you did not.
Review (Critic speaking)
If it were true, “as a general rule”, which JJ claims, that the soul incarnates in a cycle of seven lives male and seven lives female – DK would have mentioned it – even briefly.
DK did not mention UFO’s, but I know you believe in them. Why do you believe such when DK did not even briefly mention something so important?
JJ: To this the critic gives the predictable reply that DK taught that there is life on other planets.
Again, you are using a non-answer for an answer. Believing there is life on other planets and believing that UFO’s are visiting earth are two entirely different subjects.
According to your statement you should not believe n UFO’s because DK definitely did not mention them or even hint at their existence. Checkmate.
Critic: If the Law of Correspondences can be used to give credibility to any teaching, then use it to give credibility to the teaching that there is no cycle of seven lives male and seven lives female.
JJ: The Law of Correspondences can with faulty reasoning be used to support things that are not true. If the reasoning is sound, it points the way to many truths.
I have no desire to use it to illustrate fallacy. I’ll leave that to others.
Critic quoting JJ: Whenever DK speaks of energy, he talks about cycles of seven in relation to it.
No, He does not. I can provide many, many quotes where DK speaks of energy and does not talk about “cycles of seven” in relation to it.
JJ: Then give me an example of where he speaks of an energy that he has not at one time talked about cycles in relation to it.
Earlier in your email you quoted me saying, “nor can a correct correspondence be made.” and you responded with,” You give no intelligent reason why not.”
Karma does not work within the Law of Cycles, the Law of Cycles works within the Law of Karma or cause and effect.
They are quite interdependent as illustrated in the quotes below:
“This touches upon a mystery and deals with the coming-in of high Egos, of Avatars, of Buddhas, of masters, of initiates, and of disciples, and of all who have to wait for group, and not individual, urge for the fulfillment of CYCLIC KARMA on a large scale, and whose “wheels” are controlled by cosmic forces and not by purely systemic forces.” Treatise on Cosmic Fire Pg 852
“This type of force is primarily concerned with planetary stimulation, with the planetary Logoi, and is hidden in Their CYCLIC KARMA,-a karma which of course will incidentally involve those monads and devas which form Their bodies and centres.” Treatise on Cosmic Fire Pg 1052
“It is always difficult to convey any true concept of Karma, because IT PREDOMINANTLY CONCERNS CYCLES and the sequence of world events.” Discipleship In the New Age Vol 2 Pg 339
“This law has the generic name of the “Law of Cycles,” and is expressed in terms of time; but the secret to the cycles may not as yet be given as it would convey to the intuitive too much dangerous information. It is the knowledge of this law as it concerns rounds, races, subraces, groups (involutionary and evolutionary) and individuals (human and superhuman) WHICH ENABLES THE LORDS OF KARMA, AND THE ADEPTS OF THE GOOD LAW, TO MANIPULATE FORCE OR ENERGY, and so carry all that is, on to its triumphant conclusion.” Treatise on Cosmic Fire Pg 1141
Male and female represent the two basic energies of the universe – the positive and negative. All energies manifest in cycles. And also have differing cycles within their manifestation. There is no energy which is not subject to the law of cycles.
Therefore, the manifestation of life in the energy of male and female would also be cyclic. There is no reason to doubt this.
The number seven keeps reappearing in relation to energy such as sound (seven notes) light (seven colors) seven rays etc. It would correspond that there would be also cycles of seven in relation to male/female energies and manifestation.
This manifests as seven cycles of lives as male and female which is sometimes seven actual lives, but can take more if a cycle is not completed.
The soul can make an exception and incarnate the entity against the cycle if a greater cycle demands it, but then there is a catch-up factor that comes into play for cycles are like waves with which we must deal.
Note: I did not get this and many other items I teach from reading DK. DK, as do all teachers, left many things unsaid. That is no reason for knee jerk lack of belief.
“When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other.”
Eric Hoffer (1902 – 1983)
Aug 20, 2004