I thought I would post some highlights of a dialog I had with a member of another group who had problems with my first post in the archives about the teacher-student relationship
It never ceases to amazes me how people distort this principle. They seem to go one extreme or the other instead of looking for the balance of the Middle Way.
The person I had the discussion with is a college teacher, a professor I believe.
He starts about by asserting that we do not need leaders or teachers that they just cause problems.
If you believe we need no teachers then you must believe that we need to eliminate all schools with their teachers and all books which were written to teach.
If you believe we need no leaders then you must think a company can run itself with no management whatsoever. If this were feasible then we would see it occur somewhere and it has not.
If you are making the point that most rely too much on teachers and leaders I agree, but to go the other extreme is just as great of an error as the blind following the blind.
He then says that the need for a teacher/leader presumes things are out of order…that things need to be put back in order.
To this I responded that a correct teaching is of the idea of Eternal Progression. Yes, we are going somewhere, but we are not just working on restoring an old order but making “all things new.” We are going where man or God has not gone before and working on new creation and new orders that have not exactly manifested before.
The greatest hell is to have nothing new to create. Hell is creating that which has been over and over until boredom becomes so great that the life force flatlines.
He then tells us that everything is already perfect and we are enjoying eternal life right now.
If everything were perfect, we wouldn’t be here to begin with and there would be no illusion, which is imperfect. We would not be disagreeing and would all see perfectly the same. Obviously, this is not the case.
Next, he says that if God is perfect then this world would also be perfect.
God did not create a perfect world because there is no such thing as perfection within the world of form. What is the perfect diamond, the perfect look, the perfect color, the perfect flower? Perfection is what we define as perfect, or cannot be improved upon, and each person has a different idea of what that is. A perfect world to one may be hell to another. God cannot create a perfect world for you and me because we define and see perfection differently which means that it does not exist in this reality.
He maintains that in this perfect world we need no illusion of kings and queens, priests and priestesses…
You are arguing against a straw man here. I made no mention of “queens, priests and priestesses.” I have talked about students, teachers, leaders and followers – something you must believe in because your profession is that of a teacher.
It is interesting that you criticize me for believing that teachers are necessary but you yourself are a teacher. But then you excuse yourself by indicating that when dealing with the physical plane teachers are necessary but not in spiritual matters. Yet what are you doing in your group? You are teaching spiritual matters. Then you say all is perfect, but go out of your way to explain how imperfect I am and am leading into captivity. It is a strange cornered position you find yourself in.
Next he indicates a belief that my teachings on soul contact and the teacher student relationship will lead people to blindly following authorities.
I don’t follow your logic. Soul contact led me out of the church and NEVER told me to follow religious authorities without thinking. Soul contact freed me and others from outer authorities. You are arguing using a straw man again and the straw man does not apply to anything I have taught.
Maybe I misjudged you. I thought you believed in contacting the inner self to get your doctrine. If not, then what do you consider to be the source of your dialog here? Obviously, it is not religious authorities. Perhaps you just consider your ideas as originating from the thoughts passing through the computer brain.
Next, he demanded to know who my leader was and with which group I am associated.
I am not a member or dedicated to any organization or church so I do not have “a leader.” I have, and have had, many leaders and teachers, however.
The Christ is number one for inspiring me to higher paths. Djwahl Khul who worked with Alice A. Bailey is number two. Joseph Smith, the prophets and other teachers are also right up there.
I attempt to honor all my political leaders. As imperfect as they are, some of their leadership is good and worthy of following.
I hear and read of numerous people who come up with ideas and initiatives in many areas of life worthy of supporting and following.
I run all things from all leaders by my soul for this is the final judge. Then I support those leaders who point in directions that are in harmony with the inner spirit.
You seem to think I must have some leader to whom I give supreme authority and this idea is far removed from anything I teach or practice.
The he tells us he once read some of the Bailey books and was at first impressed but then came to the conclusion that “These folks could talk great, but they didn’t appear to get what they, themselves, were saying.” He thinks this applies to all the supposed hierarchy who are deceptively telling us to climb into a box so we can be free.
It doesn’t sound like you read more than a couple pages of the Bailey material. It was transmitted by one person, a Tibetan named Djwahl Khul – not folks. If you have studied him at all you would know that he was extremely self-aware and knew exactly what he was saying.
You present a straw man here that has nothing to do with anything I teach. The existence of a hierarchy does not mean you have tyrants who order you to mindlessly jump. There are good leaders and bad leaders. It is as simple as that, just as there are good teachers and bad teachers. I’m sure you consider yourself one of the good teachers – speaking of you professionally. One with soul contact will accept the good and disregard the bad.
Next, he says we will all someday look back and laugh heartily at ourselves…and those we once worshiped as leaders, and the people will push and shove to be the first!
The lesser evolved shove to be first. The more advanced push forward without thought of first or last but for the pure joy of service, benefiting the whole and moving ahead to the new plateau of realization.
I have never worshipped a leader; neither does anyone who is centered in the soul.
Then he says that we will discover that the Great White Brotherhood are no more advanced than the rest of us.
The Great White Brotherhood is defined as Christ and his inner disciples. Anyone who believes in Christ and that He does not work alone believes in the Brotherhood. Of course, one could claim that someone he does not agree with is not in contact with the true Christ, but that is another matter of debate. I think most people in this group believe in Christ and that he is surrounded by co-disciples. They may call this group by different names, but a rose is a rose by any other name.
You really seem bent on leading us into no leadership – an oxymoron for sure. Or perhaps not. Maybe you are really pushing and shoving to be the leader.
Next, he asks that if we can find truth within, then why do we need leaders or hierarchies of authority at all?
The problem here is you are trying to put me in some box, stereotyping me with some group that exists within your mind.
I have not taught that we can find truth by going within alone. I have taught that going within is just half the process. The other half is being stimulated from without. We must be planted with seed thoughts and ideas from without and then verify and expand the essential truth from within. Both the within and the without are necessary to find the truth. If one seeks to find truth by going within only then he will find nothing that relates to truth within the worlds of form whereupon we reside.
As proof of this take a look at those who have had no outside stimulation and only had the world within from which to learn. Perhaps you’ve read stories of young children who were locked in a room by sick parents for many years and left there with nothing but their inner world to ponder.
What is interesting is that if such a child was placed in that situation at the age of 6 and released at the age of 12 then he will still see himself as a 6-year-old and act as a 6-year-old. It is as if he has learned nothing for six years, not even his true age.
This illustrates that we need the outside stimulation to learn.
We must be stimulated from the outside and then verify from the inside.
He asks why we need pyramidal structures of leaders upon leaders as exists in government and religion.
Hierarchy has always existed and always will in the worlds of form. Without leadership and hierarchy civilization would fall apart and disintegrate into chaos.
The reason there is such a chaos in some third world countries, for example, is that there is not a hierarchy which is followed by the populace. There will continue to be chaos until such leadership is established and respected.
This does not mean that an enlighten person follows mindlessly, but it is indeed mindless to not follow or support anything.
No support of structure leads to collapse of structure, but when there is no structure, you have anarchy where gang rule prevails.
He then reduces our argument to  Following leaders instead of going within or  Receiving from within instead of following leaders.
Again, you overlook what I actually teach which is:  Listen to teachers and leaders, and run it by your soul within. Accept that which is in harmony and reject that which is not.
There is some leadership and outside rules we do need to follow if we are to survive in this world. Do you follow your leaders and pay your union dues as they insist? Do you follow what you are told in your job so you get your paycheck? I’ll bet you just don’t take a month off without telling anyone, even with the laxity of the educational system.
Do you follow your leaders and pay your taxes?
Do you slow down when the authority figure of a cop is following you or do you follow your inner self and go fast if you feel like it?
If the inner voice is not obvious common sense is the next best thing.
The ability to see beauty is the beginning of our moral sensibility. What we believe is beautiful we will not wantonly destroy. Reverend Sean Parker Dennison
Feb 6, 2007
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