Boise Gathering 2008, Part 4

This entry is part 4 of 15 in the series Boise Gathering 2008

Getting into Trouble

JJ: As I moved along in the church I discovered a number of things that were not church doctrine that were true and I began to write about them, but I had difficulty in sharing them with anyone because the church kept telling you, “Don’t delve!” They used that word “delve” all the time and if you delved then it was worse than child pornography.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: But I was a delver and I loved delving into everything. Members would come to my home from the church and they would see all these weird books that I had on the shelves and they would say, “Aren’t you getting into dangerous territory with those books?” I would say “Well is there anything in the church that says that I cannot have these books? I guess not so I’ll keep these books.”

Audience: Laughter

JJ: I told them there is nothing wrong with these books and they have some good stuff in them. But I kind of kept out of trouble because I knew where the boundaries were. When you are in an organization with a powerful thought form you just sense where the boundaries are. It is an unwritten thing.

The people that are active in the church claim “Oh there are no boundaries and we have free agency and you can say and think anything you want. Well, as long what you say does not cross the boundaries then you are fine and if you do not cross them you can say anything you want but if you want to explore then you are limited in what you can say and I really found this out.

I started doing some writing and I wrote this little treatise that was only about ten pages long proving that there was progression from one kingdom to another. The Mormons believe in only three kingdoms after death, the telestial, terrestrial and the celestial and they think that once you die and you are resurrected that you go into one of them and you are stuck there. You are in that kingdom for all eternity and you cannot progress. Well this did not sound fair to me so I did some research and found some scriptures and writings of Joseph Smith that supported the idea that there is progression from one kingdom to another. So I wrote this little ten page treatise and when I finished writing it I thought the only problem was that there was nobody I could give this to because even though this is fairly harmless I could probably get ex-communicated for it.

Meanwhile my nephew Curtis moved into town and he gave a speech at church. When a member moves into an area they are usually invited to give a speech at a sacrament meeting. I have known him all my life and as a matter of fact he worked for me one time when I was a foreman at a meat packing company and I thought he was the worst worker I had ever seen at the time. We would be packing livers and he would be standing over the livers asleep.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: We would start at 4am and we would have to pack all this meat and ship it. I would often find him sleeping and I said if you were not my nephew I would probably fire you. Anyway I did not have a lot of faith in him until he moved back into town. When he was gone and he started selling pots and pans and he became the number one salesman for the company in this area and I thought well maybe the guy is moving up and good for him. Anyway he moved into town and gave this speech and I was surprised how intelligent his speech was so I decided to test him out.

I did this with many of my Mormon friends and I would invite them over and ask them several questions to see if it was possible that they were interested in further light. One of the questions I asked was, do you have any idea where the Ten Tribes are because that is a big mystery in the Mormon Church. In the Mormon Church they teach about the tribe of Judah which is the Jews and the tribe of Joseph from which many of us are supposed to be descended. The other ten tribes are lost and some people think they are in outer space and some think they are under the earth and some think they are hidden, scattered throughout the world and it is a big mystery as to where they are. In the church if you even talk about this mystery then you are on dangerous ground. But just to casually ask is not looked upon as anything but if you claim to have the answer then you will be in trouble.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: So I invited my nephew over for dinner and I asked him, do you have any idea where the ten tribes are? He said, No but I sure would be interested in knowing!” Well I thought that was ten steps beyond what I usually received. It is amazing that when you talk to religious people, not only Mormons but also, all of the religions, if you see any glimmer of light or curiosity beyond the norm it is very unusual. For instance, for a born again Christian if you go beyond the blood of Jesus it is a giant step for these people.

So anyway I thought, okay I will hit him with something that shocks him and I said did you know that the scriptures say that there are people under the earth? And Curtis said he did not know that. So I showed him a couple scriptures from Revelation chapter 5 where it says, “ That no man in heaven, nor in the earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.” I said to Curtis who are these people under the earth? And Curtis looks at the scripture and says, yes it does say that doesn’t it? That’s weird. Who do you think they are?

I said well it could be the ten tribes, you never know. And he said, well maybe it is. So I showed him another scripture and said well it could be that because it says in the scriptures that the desert will blossom as a rose and the ice in the north will melt and the ten tribes will come down from the north after a melting of the ice and maybe the melting of the ice in the north will open some kind of a hole from the center of the earth so these guys will be able to come out, you never know. They could make the desert blossom like a rose when the ice melts. So who knows if that is true or not but you can come very close to getting ex-communicated just for thinking about it. Curtis was just eating this up and he said, boy this is great! What else do you know? And I said well a few things.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: I said I have this paper about the progression from kingdom to another and why don’t you take it home and read it. So he takes it home and reads it and comes back and says, boy this is really good stuff and I never really thought of this before and the only trouble is that the authorities don’t look at it this way. And I said yes that’s right they do not. So Curtis says, I have to think about this.

So the next day he was over at his friend’s home who was really into the church. He shared this treatise with him and they both called me up and they were both on the same line and Curtis said, my friend Neil was looking at this and he really has a good question. The prophet says that there is no progression from one kingdom to another. The prophet at that time was Joseph Fielding Smith and he had written books that says there is no such progression. Then he said, “Do you think you are smarter than the prophet?” And I said, yes, and all of a sudden there is a big silent pause because nobody in the church says that they are smarter than the prophet.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: After they gasped and revived themselves I said well it is obviously true, look at the scripture. For instance, it says that everyone that goes to that celestial kingdom gets a stone and that stone reveals there is a higher order of kingdoms than the celestial. Now if you are stuck in one of the kingdoms, and there is this higher order of kingdoms, does that means that you are never going to go higher even if you make it to the celestial? So you are stuck in the celestial kingdom and you can see this beautiful higher order of kingdoms but you are never going to be able to go there. Do you think that is what is going to happen? They said well we don’t think so. I said you are shown the higher order of kingdoms because you are going to go there someday. There are higher kingdoms than the celestial, which everybody in the church thinks is the highest. Joseph Smith said specifically that there is a higher order of kingdoms than the celestial.

Curtis said, “Well I have to think about this.”

JJ: So Curtis comes back to me later and says well this makes sense and I am moving down to Blackfoot and I am going to make copies of your article and I am going to share it with a bunch of people down there. I said no, no, no, if you share it with people down there then you will get ex-communicated. He said well it is not against church doctrine. I said technically no but you are challenging the powers-that-be with it and you will get us ex-communicated.

He did not think that was true at all and that I was just imagining it. So he goes down there and he makes a bunch of copies and gives it to various elders and friends and after about two weeks the bishop calls him in and says, now Brother Hartwell can I have your temple recommend. And Curtis says temple recommend why? He says I am taking it back for you have been passing around this dangerous literature. We are going to have a trial for your membership by the high council in three days. Now the only witness’s you can have must be members in the church in good standing. So if you want to call anybody you can.

So he calls me up the next day and says, they are trying me for my membership and they are only giving me three days to prepare and the only witnesses I can have are members in good standing and you are the only one I can ask so will you come down and testify for me? I said I planned on being ex-communicated someday but on my own terms. I said this is going to get me ex-communicated and I will probably lose my wife and kids and it will completely alter my life. You are now going to ex-communicated no matter what I do. Then he says yes but you got me into this so you have to get me out … PLEASE come down. I said well if I come down it is not going to help but I’ll do it for you.

So anyway I told my friend Wayne, that is in the book the Immortal, about this and he says with much enthusiasm, can I come down with you? He did not mind if he got ex-communicated at all. He was single and never went to church and did not believe in it much anymore.

So I said sure and we went down to Blackfoot together. After arriving, they were not even going to let us in. I later wrote the story of the trial in the story “Journey’s End” where it talks about Curtis’s trial and it was written fairly accurate as far as I could remember. I would not have known at all what they were saying if I hadn’t put my ear to the door so I could hear what was going on.

But they were not going to let us in and Curtis reminded them that they said he could have witnesses if they were in good standing with the church and Wayne and Joe out there are still good members of the church. Curtis had to be persistent and finally they let us in. I got up and started to tell them a few things about back in Joseph Smith’s day how the high council ex-communicated this guy for preaching the mysteries out of the book of Revelation and Joseph Smith came to them and he said what are you guys a bunch of Pharisees? He said we should have the privilege of thinking and believing the way that we please without being thrown out. He said you guys are acting like Methodists here instead of like Latter Day Saints. Apparently the Methodists were strict back then for now they are easy going.

Joseph told them to put this person back in the church and furthermore his teachings were fairly accurate. The next day he gave a big sermon out of the book of Revelations. So I said, If a man errors in doctrine it does not mean he is evil. If you think this man errs in doctrine, that does make him evil and it does not mean we should throw him out. I explained this to them and these guys were sitting there just about going to sleep and they were looking at their watches thinking they need to get home to the wife and kids and this really irritated me. I thought now these guys believe that when Curtis is ex-communicated that he is going to be like a son of perdition with no priesthood, no nothing. He is going to the lowest hell and they are going to send him there without due consideration, a fate worse than death in their minds. This really irritated me. There was this big unabridged dictionary sitting on the table in front of them so I took it in my hands and slammed it down as hard as I could and I pointed at one of the guys and I said, “You!!! You are putting this guys salvation on the line and you are not even paying attention.” I believe I woke everybody up at this point.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: You’re putting this guys salvation on the line and you are sending him to a fate worse than death in your eyes and you are falling asleep. You are conducting this trial contrary to the order of the church.

Well they excused me as soon as they could and when I was out in the hall I listened at the door again and the stake president got up again and he says, “The guy has the spirit all right but it is the wrong spirit!”

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: Then Wayne came in and he gave his two cents worth. Then they wrapped up the trial as soon as they could and condemned Curtis into outer darkness. Then after a few more weeks the bishop drove up to my place with a summons. This took a little longer than I had thought but they had to send it all the way to Salt Lake and then back again.

Copyright 2011 by J J Dewey

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Ten Tribes and Danites

This entry is part 48 of 50 in the series 2011A

A lady with an LDS background wrote:

Talking about tribes (the Danites in your series, Hell on Earth) what is the origin of the tribe issue, the missing tribes that went North.

LDS people in Missouri await their arrival. Why does the church, or some members, make an issue of tribes? My Patriarchal Blessing states I am of the tribe of Ephraim, as are most LDS members.


When Jacob wrestled with and overcame an Angel he was told his name would be changed to Israel which means “to prevail as God.”

He later had twelve sons who became known as the “Sons of Israel.”

The posterity of these sons then became very numerous and became known as the Tribes of Israel or the “Twelve Tribes.”

The twelve tribes eventually divided into two groups.  One was formed of the tribe of Judah, who became the Jews, and Joseph.  The remaining ten tribes formed the other group.

The ten tribes eventually mysteriously disappeared from history and no one knows where they went.  There is all kinds of speculation.   Some think they are on another planet that was separated from the earth.  Some think they are under the earth and others think they are scattered among us.

Here is an apocryphal scripture telling about their journey to an unknown land:

“These are the ten tribes which were led away captive out of their own land in the days of Josiah [Hoshea] the king, which (tribes) Salmanassar the king of the Assyrians led away captive; he carried them across the River, and (thus) they were transported into another land. But they took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a land further distant, where the human race had never dwelt, there at least to keep their statutes which they had not kept in their own land. And they entered by the narrow passages of the river Euphrates. For the Most High then wrought wonders for them, and stayed the springs of the River until they were passed over. And through that country there was a great way to go, (a journey) of a year and a half; and that region was called Arzareth. There they have dwelt until the last times.” 2 Esdras 13:39-47

Here is awitness who said Joseph stated they were under the North Pole:

Other questions were asked when Brother Clayton was not present, one of which I will relate: I asked where the nine and a half tribes of Israel were. “Well,” said he (Joseph), “you remember the old caldron or potash kettle you used to boil maple sap in for sugar, don’t you?” I said yes. “Well,” said he, “they are in the north pole in a concave just the shape of that kettle. And John the Revelator is with them, preparing them for their return.” (Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life’s Review, pg 93)

Here is another story giving another slant:

Joseph Smith on the Ten Tribes

Brother Brown:

Will you  give us some light and explanation of the 5th verse on page 386 of the Hymn Book, which spake of the Ten Tribes of Israel, or part of this earth which forms another planet according to the Hymn of Elisa R. Snow?

Yes, Sir, I think I can answer your question.

Sister Elisa R. Snow in visiting my grand parents was asked by my grandmother:  “Elisa, where did you get your ideas about the lost tribes being taken away as you explained it in your wonderful Hymn on page 386 of the Hymn Book?”  She answered as follows:  “Why my husband, the Prophet Joseph Smith, told me about it.”

“Have you any other information that your grandfather ever gave you as contained in any conversation with the Prophet Joseph Smith?”

“I Have.  One evening in Nauvoo, just after dark, somebody rapped at the door very vigorously.  Grandfather said he was reading the Doctrine and Covenants.  He rose hastily and answered the summons at the door, where he met the Prophet Joseph Smith.  He said ‘Brother Brown, can you keep me overnight, the mobs are after me.’  Grandfather answered, ‘Yes Sir, it will not be the first time.  Come in.’  ‘All right,’  the Prophet said, shutting the door quickly.  He came in and sat down.  Grandmother said, ‘Brother Smith, have you had your supper?’  ‘No,’ he answered, ‘I have not. ‘So she prepared him a meal and he ate it.

“Afterward they were in conversation, and the Ten Tribes were mentioned. Grandfather said, ‘Joseph, where are the Ten Tribes?’  He said ‘Come to the door and I will show you.  Come Sister Brown, I want you both to see.’

“It being a starlight night the Prophet said, ‘Brother Brown, can you show me the Polar Star.’  ‘Yes Sir,” he said pointing to the North Star, ‘There it is.’  ‘Yes, I know,’ said the Prophet, ‘but which one?  There are a lot of stars there.’  Grandfather said, ‘Can you see the points of the Dipper?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes.’  ‘Well,’ he said ‘trace the pointers,’ pointing up to the largest star.  ‘That is the North Star.’

“”The Prophet answered, ‘You are correct.  Now,’ he said, pointing toward the star, ‘do you discover a little twinkler to the right and below the pole star, which we would judge to be about the distance of twenty feet from here?’  Grandfather answered, ‘Yes, Sir.’  The Prophet said, ‘Sister Brown, do you see the star also?’  Her answer was, ‘Yes, Sir.’  ‘Very well then,’ he said, ‘let’s go.’

“After re-entering the house, the Prophet said, ‘Brother Brown, I noticed when I came in that you were reading the Doctrine and Covenants.  Will you kindly get it?’  He did so.  The Prophet turned to the 133rd section and read commencing at the 26th verse and through the 34th verse.  He said, after reading the 31st verse, ‘Now let me ask you what would cause the everlasting hills to tremble with more violence than the coming together of two planets – and that planet whereon they reside to this earth?’

“‘Now’ he said, ‘scientists will tell you that it is known science that two planets coming together would be disastrous to both; which would be perfectly correct if they met head-on from opposite directions.  So when two planets or other objects are traveling in the same direction and one of them with a little greater velocity than the other, it would not be disastrous because the one traveling faster would overtake the other.  Now what would cause the mountains of ice to melt quicker than the heat caused by the friction of the two planets coming together?’  And then he asked the question. ‘Did you ever see a meteor that was not red hot?  That would cause the mountains of ice to melt.’

“‘And relative to the great highway, when that planet returns to its place in the great northern waters, it will form a highway and the waters will recede and roll back.’  He continued, ‘Now as to their coming back from the Northern waters; they will, return from the North because their planet will return to the place from whence it was taken.’

“‘Relative to the water rolling back to the North:  if you take a vessel of water and swing it rapidly around your head you won’t spill any, but if you stop the motion gradually, it will begin to pour out.’

“Now he said, ‘Brother Brown, at the present time this earth is rotating very rapidly.  When this planet returns it will make this earth that much heavier and it will revolve slower and that will account for the water receding from the earth for a great while, but it has now turned and is proceeding eastward rapidly.’

“Did the prophet ever tell your grandfather about the city of Enoch being taken from the earth?”

“Yes, he did.  He said that Enoch and his people kept so faithfully the laws of the Lord that they were translated – Not only Enoch and his people, but the great city also wherein they dwelt.  And grandfather asked the question, ‘Brother Joseph, where was that city located?  And the Prophet answered, ‘Where the Gulf of Mexico  now exists, and the time will come when the mariner will say, there is no bottom to the Gulf of Mexico.’  And he said, ‘When that great piece of land was taken from the earth it created a vacuum and to the extent that it started water coming in to fill up that great space that is now known as the Gulf of Streams.’  The Prophet added, ‘In consequence of this great portion being taken away it naturally threw the earth out of balance.  Now,’ he said, ‘when that comes back, that and the planet on which the lost tribes are, the earth will receive its equilibrium and will revolve as it naturally was.’

“‘Then, Brother Brown, this will fulfill the saying of the Prophet Jeremiah, Chapter 16, verses 14-15; also the sayings of the Prophet Nephi.'”

Brother Call, you have read the statement of Brother Brown concerning the Ten Tribes of Israel being upon another planet besides this?

Yes, I have  heard my father relate the same regarding the Ten Tribes of Israel, and my father heard the Prophet make the statement that the Ten Tribes are on another planet, as related by Brother Brown.

Next the reader asked:

Why are the Danites picked to be the bad guys?  I’m sure most of the Mormons that make up “the hit gang”, even to this day, are not Danites. So where did this designation come from?


The Danites were named after the tribe of Dan.  Jacob gave him this mysterious blessing:

Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.  Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Genesis 49:16-17

Because it sounds like the descendants of Dan will be destroyers Dan is often viewed in a negative light. He is left out of the Twelve Tribes in the Book of Revelation and replaced by Joseph’s son Manasseh.  Legend has it that this was done because the antichrist would descend from Dan.

The Danites were formed in the midst of great persecution as a means of self preservation.  Because they were to fight the enemies of the church they were called Danites.

How involved Joseph was with is group is a mystery.  It appears that he was aware of it and possibly approved it in the beginning, but then later publically condemned them.

Whatever the case a skeleton form of the Danites appears to have continued until the Mormons settled in Utah.  It seems that the destroying angel idea died with the famous Danites, Porter Rockwell, John D Lee and Bill Hickman.

A little known piece of trivia is that the creation of the sinister villain from Sherlock Holmes, Professor Moriarty, was inspired by stories of the Mormon Danites.

There is lots of information about the Danites on the Web.  Much of it is distorted but Wikipeadia gives as good a presentation as any at:

The readers then says:

The mean part of LDS history has always discouraged me…


Most every movement has its dark spots, including our own country. How much of Jarman’s book is true is difficult to say but the evidence indicates that some severe abuse did occur.  It is interesting today that the Mormons are a fairly mellow bunch who are fairly harmless and mostly unaware of anything negative in their history.

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The Great White Chief Part 5

This entry is part 9 of 34 in the series 2010B

Posted May 14, 2010
The Great Trek North

After the dead will have been buried and the injured healed, and all is quiet and peaceful again, he, Echa Tah Echa Nah, will call all the survivors of the great holocaust, who live in his country and prepare them for the great trek from their land to the north. At this time he will send runners to Chi Chi Suma, who is second in command, bidding him to call the survivors in his part of the country to prepare themselves for a great journey they would embark upon, for they were now to leave their country forever.

Many months before starting preparations will proceed by all the people getting together to raise all the foodstuffs that will be necessary, also all other things that the people will need for their survival. The pottery workers will immediately prepare containers of adequate size and shape to transport the grains and foodstuffs. The basket makers will do likewise. Leather workers will prepare all articles necessary to be used during this great trek. Weavers will make blankets, robes and all other articles of clothing needed, until the people can again be settled in their new homes.


All this is in the future, and the people are waiting for the time to come when they will abide by what he has instructed them to do. During this period of waiting, the people are not idle for they have hand-hewn and polished all the stone blocks to be used in the Great Temple, and hand polished the white mountain mahogany wood that will be used to beautify this most sacred edifice.

Each stone is cut so that it will be interlocked to the stone adjoining it. Dumbbell-like keystones link them together. No nails will be used in the building of this unique structure. All woodwork will be fitted together with wooden pegs or pins. Only the most precious metals will be used for decorative purposes. However, these will have no face value during this period for there will be no medium of exchange. Semi-precious stones such as jasper, turquoise, sardonyx, lapis lazuli, and amethyst will he used to add splendor to the exterior of this Most Holy Temple.

As previously mentioned, after the disasters, two great people will leave the Chigaraguan country forever to begin their trek to the site where this Great Temple is to be erected. Following divine guidance and inspiration, the place will not be difficult to locate. There they will make preparations and begin work on the Holy Temple, and the Holy City within walls.

Echa Tah Echa Nah, having previously notified the people to prepare themselves for this long trek, will call his council members together to tell them that the time has now come for them to begin the task of final preparation for embarking upon this journey. At the close of this council meeting, the council members will go, each to his own community and personally supervise the final preparations, seeing that all is in readiness for this move. A great bustling about will begin as the people round up the livestock, pack grain and foodstuffs and other useful things for their departure from the land of the Chigaraguans.

One of the last acts of preparations will be the tremendous task of moving the stones for the Great Temple, the responsibility of which has been placed upon one of the council members. These 84 85

stones are already prepared and carefully stored in the queries from which they have been cut, and will have to be moved with caution due to their overwhelming weight, and to Protect the finish given them. By crude means of transportation, these massive blocks will be moved to the shore line, where huge barges will have been constructed to carry them to their destination.


After all the stones and hand-polished wood will have been loaded on the barges, and all is in readiness, the council member in charge will not depart until word comes from Echa Tah Echa Nah. When the runner brings word that Echa Tah Echa Nah’s group has started the trek from the agreed point at Lake Pitzcuaro to journey north, the council member will give the command for the barges to shove off and slowly drift with the current near the coast line, following it to the north. Thus will start the first group led by Echa Tah Echa Nah like Moses and the Children of Israel.

It will have been previously arranged between Echa Tah Echa Nah and Chi Chi Suma that at the same time Echa Tah EchaNah was preparing to move to the north, Chi Chi Suma’s group will leave from their same point on their journey northward. The exact preparations that will have been made by Echa Tah Echa Nah, will also be made by Chi Chi Suma. The same technique will be followed in moving all their earthly possessions, as well as constructing barges, loading and transporting the stones from the guaries located in Chi Chi Suma’s country (which is a great deal further south than Echa Tah Echa Nah’s country. )

Prior to the departure of this second group, word will have been sent to all Indian tribes extending into South America, that the people should make preparations and gradually move to the north and inhabit the abandoned places left by the people of Chi Chi Suma and Echa Tah Echa Nah. As the South American Indians inhabit the vacated cities, they will be instructed to remain at these places until after the Holy Temple and the city with the walls have been built. 1

As Echa Tah Echa Nah’s group leisurely winds its way northward, _Chi Chi Suma’s group will he following the same route at the same pace. Each group will have a forward vanguard, followed by the livestock, pack horses, and carts; the women and children traveling next to the rear guard. Their mode of transportation will not be as it is in these modern times, for the destruction will have done away with all forms of modernization, leaving only the most primitive.

Constant contact between Echa Tah Echa Nah’s group on land and those taking the water route north, will be kept by runners. Should the barges in any respect, come into difficulty, the land forces will immediately dispatch assistance to them.


After traveling for many days to the north, the advance scouts of Echa Tah Echa Nah will report to him that they have found the body of water that flows from the west to the east, which will be the first goal of Echa Tah Echa Nah’s group. Immediately after crossing this body of water, preparations will be made for the people to remain there until the Arrival of Chi Chi Suma’s group. 2

1) The Lord promises them the desolate cities of the Gentiles to inhabit. ” (3 Nephi, 22:3). So it is clear who will occupy America at this time.

2) Natoni Nezbah places this spot at or near Laredo on the Rio Grande. 86

The first barges will be instructed to anchor in the gulf until the arrival of the other barges belonging to Chi Chi Suma’s group. Chi Chi Suma’s other group, coming by land, slowly and laboriously fallowing the same route taken by Echa Tah Echa Nah, should arrive at the river five days after.

Chi Chi Suma’s advance scouts will report, after many days of travel to the north, that they have sighted the first group encamped north of the river which flows from the west to the east. Soon the two great forces will be united at this river and Echa Tah Echa Nah with his council members will hold a conference with Chi Chi Suma and his council members, and there will be great rejoicing among the people.

Both groups, after a short period of resting will prepare to move on from this point. Runners will have been sent to take word to the barges to make ready to start. When all is in readiness to depart, Echa Tah Echa Nah will call his councilmen, and Chi Chi Sums will call his councilmen; and together they will map a route which each will take. Echa Tah Echa Nah will instruct Chi Chi Suma’s group to take charge of all the barges carrying the stones, and proceed for many days to the east until they arrive at the great body of water that flows from the north to the south. ‘


Chi Chi Suma will follow Echa Tah Echa Nah’s instructions, and by the slow, laborious way of traveling, they shall arrive in due course of time at the designated body of water. Upon finding this body of water, many changes will have to be made. Smaller barges will have to be made, and the stones transferred to them enabling them to travel by the river to the north without too much difficulty.

1) This is obviously the Mississippi River.

Upon completion of these changes, Chi Chi Suma will resume his trek to the north, and they shall journey up the river following its west bank. 1 The advance scouts of this second party will continuously search for a great, white, flat stone on the west side of the river, which will be their final destination.

After traveling for an unspecified period of time, the scouts will report finding this great white stone. Knowing that they have at last arrived at the end of their journey, Chi Chi Suma and his councilmen will draw up plans of procedure to start at once the preparations for the construction of the Holy Temple and the city within a wall. This group will build temporary structures in which to live while building the Temple. The barges of stone will be unloaded and soon the task of building the Temple will be fully underway.

Immediately after the departure of Chi Chi Suma and his group and the barges to the east, Echa Tah Echa Nah with his group will start trekking to the west. His advance scouts will be continuously searching for a low range of mountains running from the north to the south. After slowly trekking toward the west for many days, the scouts will report the finding of the mountains they are in search of and when the group arrives at this low range of mountains, they will rest for a few days, making preparations to continue their journey to the north. 2

1) The west bank of the Mississippi will lead to the west bank of the Missouri River.

2) This low range of mountains must be somewhere in Arizona, because their route takes them to the Hopi, Navajo, and other Indians, and then to the surviving Mormons in their “Cities of Refuge” in southern Utah, and finally to the Great Salt Lake, to be joined by the Ten tribes and others from the north under John the Beloved. 88


89 After the people and the animals have rested, they will follow this range of mountains to the north, keeping on the east side of this range at all times. As this group slowly travels to the north, other survivors of this great holocaust of destruction, will timidly seek to join with the Chigaraguan people on their great trek.

These survivors will not be able to understand the words of the Chigaraguans, north Chigaraguans understand the words of the survivors, yet each will recognize the other by their marks, signs and symbols. The Chigaraguans will welcome the survivors to join them on their trek. As they advance slowly to the north, almost daily other survivors will join them.

Echa Tah Echa Nah’s advance scouts will be on the lookout for a great stone marker not far from a vast area surrounded by a very white substance. This white substance will surround a tremendous inland body of water. Yet, at all times Echa Tah Echa Nah’s group shall stay on the east side of the range of mountains. 1

Soon his scouts will report the finding of the great stone marker, 2 and upon arriving at this marker will remain there for many days. During their stay at this marker, Echa Tah Echa Nah’s group will be joined by other people from the north. 3

1) The Great Salt Lake and the Oquirrhs.

2) This great stone marker could be the Temple, which is about all that will be left of S. L. C.

3) The other people from the north, must be the Ten Tribes under John the Beloved. There are tracts of land in Idaho dedicated for their use, and according to The White Horse Vision, they will help to build the Great Temple in the New Jerusalem.


When the time comes, the people will be advised by their leaders to make preparations to trek eastward, to seek out the designated spot where Chi Chi Suma with his group will have made preparations to build the Holy Temple within a wall. They will continue their trek eastward, and soon the scouts will inform Echa Tah Echa Nah that they have sighted Chi Chi Suma and his people, and soon both groups will be reunited. Chi Chi Suma will openly welcome the arrival of Echa Tah Echa Nah and his group, and great rejoicing will be among all the people.

As survivors will have joined Echa Tah Echa Nah, so will other survivors also have joined the group of Chi Chi Suma. Although the people of Chi Chi Suma’s group do not speak the tongue of those who will have joined Echa Tah Echa Nah, there will be perfect unison and harmony and they will be welcomed with open arms. Many of the survivors, who will have joined the two groups, will have very fair skin and very blonde hair bothers will be Indian people, but all will have the same purpose in view as the groups of Echa Tah Echa Nah and Chi Chi Suma, -that of taking part in the building of this magnificent edifice of worship to their God, -the Temple of His Coming!

As the construction of this Most Holy Temple continues, the people who are taking part in its construction are happy in their daily tasks, -and nighttime slowly descends upon the day after tomorrow.

1) The Ten Tribes.

The End 91


A Few Parting Thoughts


There is no place in the scriptures that calls for the Indians (Nephites, Lamanites, etc. ) to come and be numbered with the LDS Believing Gentiles, as we are called in the chapter heading of 3 Nephi , 16. But there are at least four places where it says that we must repent and be numbered with them, if we are to survive the DAY OF PURIFICATION, or what we call the 3i year judgment period. Here they are:


“If the (LDS) Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that He shall manifest Himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto taking away of their stumbling blocks -and harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, THEY SHALL BE NUMBERED AMONG THE SEED OF THY FATHER, YEA THEY SHALL BE NUMBERED AMONG THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. “

The next verse states that the penalty for not being so numbered is “the casting of the soul into that hell which bath no end. “


“But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel, and I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to ‘go through among them, and tread them down saith the Father. ” (See also 3 Nephi, 21:12).


“But if the (LDS) Gentiles will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them (the Church of the remnant of Jacob or the Indians), and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance. “


“For be it known unto you, that the only salvation which remains for the Gentiles, is for them to be identified in the same covenant, and to worship at the same altar with Israel. In short, they must come to the same standard for there shall be one Lord, and His name one, and He shall be King over all the earth. “

THIS IS THE DAY FOR THE NATURAL BRANCHES OF ISRAEL! The bitter branches and evil fruit will be pruned from the vineyard as indicated in the Book of Mormon, Jacob, 5:33-58. Remember, this is the day when every tub must stand on its own bottom. Know for yourself through Christ, what is true!




“For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left, and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. ” (3 Nephi, 22:1, or Isa. 52:3).

“And my people who are a remnant of Jacob, (the Indians) shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off. “

(See 3 Nephi, 21:12-13. )

“Therefore repent ye, and humble yourself before Him, lest He shall come out in justice against you -lest a remnant of the seed of Jacob (the Indians) shall go forth among you as a lion, and tear you in pieces and there is none to deliver. ” (Mormon, 5:24).




“President Smith then stated****it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh -even fifty-six years should wind up the scene. ” (Statement made Feb. 14, 1835. See Church History, Vol. 2:182. )

Note: Feb. 14, 1835, plus 56 years = Feb. 14, 1891.


“I was once praying very earnestly, to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when 1 heard a voice repeat the following:

“Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man. Therefore, let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.

“I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium, or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face. “

Note: The Prophet Joseph was born Dec. 23, 1805. Hence he would have been eighty-five years old on Dec. 23, 1890.


The Indian Messiah

The American Indian is often depicted as a man without religion or scruples, or faith in a supreme being. This may be largely due to his reluctance to adopt the ways of the white man, and become what we regard as “a good Christian, ” which in the light of today’s business practices, ethics and morals, is an attainment of doubtful distinction, and hardly worth emulating.

After reading L. Taylor Hansen’s book, “He Walked The Americas, ” which reveals the personal contacts of Christ with almost every Indian tribe in North, South and Central America, and in Hawaii, as reflected in their legends, one must admit that they, indeed, have strong foundations of their own for a belief in a Supreme Being.

There are some artists and sculptors who have expressed in stone and colors, the Indian’s deep spiritual feelings in his appeal to the Great Spirit for help and guidance, and for redress of the great wrongs inflicted upon him by the white man.

Perhaps the high point of the American Indian’s religious expression in the past century occurred in the year 1890, at Walker Lake, Nevada, when their own Indian Messiah appeared to a large gathering of delegates from some sixteen tribes, including a delegation of white Indians from a highly civilized tribe in Central America known as the Chigaraguans. These white Indians are a hold-over from the Golden Age of ancient America, when they possessed a culture and civilization that was nothing short of a perfect Utopia, -and still is! 96 97

Some writers have mistakenly confused this Indian Messiah of Walker Lake, Nevada, with a counterfeit of that area known as Wovoka, a Flute, of no particular talents or charisma, and who could speak only Piute. This Wovoka may have been responsible for the Ghost Dance so widely accepted among the North American Indians, but for little else. In the Ghost Dance, they would dance in a circle until some of them collapsed into an hypnotic trance. When they came to, they would assert that their spirits had made a visit with their ancestors in the Spirit World, and that they had predicted many good things for the down-trodden Indian, and that great, beneficial changes were coming for them that would bring judgment upon the white man and justice and betterment for the Indian.

The real Indian Messiah could make His speech understood to all the tribes present in the mixed gathering of some sixteen or seventeen different tongues. He could appear and disappear at will. And He also displayed the marks of His crucifixion, or the scars on His hands and wrists, and feet and on His side. Furthermore, He appointed twelve apostles to represent Him, eleven of whom were the White Indians from Central America, and the twelfth one was a Cheyenne named Porcupine from Montana.


The nation’s press of 1890, carried many stories of this very unusual event at Walker Lake, Nevada. Many of them were reported in “The Deseret News” of Salt Lake City, some of which we quote in the following references. The Indians were so agitated on at least sixteen reservations that General Miles of the U. S. Army, found it necessary to make a tour of all army installations at or near these reservations, to see what could be done about all this excitement over an Indian Messiah.

The so-called “Messiah Craze” had become the inspiration for Chief Sitting Bull of the Sioux to believe that he could arouse the Indians to another victory greater than the defeat of Custer’s forces at the Little Big Horn, for the Messiah had promised them that the Whites should be destroyed from off the face of this land, and that the land would be given back to the Indians, from whom the Whites had so unfairly taken it, and had broken so many treaties concerning this land. Infect, it is claimed by some that Sitting Bull was “accidentally’ on purpose killed to put an end to his Indian Messiah activities, and to stop the dreaded Ghost Dance, which had been outlawed.

In “The Deseret News” for Nov. 7, 1890, there is a report from “The St. Paul Dispatch” under the title of, “The Indian Messiah, ” as follows:

“General Miles is here on his return from his western tour. He says, ‘I have been to Utah, Montana and Cheyenne Reservations investigating. You have no doubt heard that the Indian tribes are reported to believe that the Messiah has come, whois to restore them to their former glory, and drive the Whites from the land. I have learned that this belief exists among sixteen tribes. There is no doubt that some Indians, who are holding this belief in the Indian Messiah, are sincere, and a few certainly have seen some person on whom they look to be that Messiah.

“‘Several small parties of Indians have gone from their tribes to some point in Nevada. There they have been shown someone disguised as the Messiah, and have spoken with him. I am inclined to believe that there is more than one person impersonating the Messiah, as when the Sioux have spoken with him, he replied in the Sioux tongue. . . and so on with the representatives of each nation. ‘ (General 99 98

Miles could not allow for a Pentecostal gift of tongues in this case, because then he would have to admit that this Messiah was genuine. -NCP. )

“General Miles gave his opinion that ‘the Mormons are prime movers in it. . . It is noteworthy, ‘ says he, ‘that this so-called Messiah tells Indians that when he comes to reign over them, firearms will no longer be used. . . that he will draw a line behind which he will gather all Indians, land then he will roll the earth back upon the Whites. This has naturally excited the Indians and large numbers have accepted the new belief. None is more ardent than Chief Sitting Bull, who is intensely Indian in all his ideas. The argument Indians use is: The Whites have had their Messiah, and the Indians now have theirs!'”

In “The Deseret News” for Nov. 8, 1890, an article dated Nov. 4th, taken from “The Kansas City Dispatch, ” from Ft. Reno, Special, quotes Sitting Bull as follows:

“The Messiah said He had come to save the White Man, but they persecuted Him, and now He had come to deliver the long tormented Indians. . . All day Christ instructed them and gave them evidence of His powers. He, Sitting Bull, told his people His story, and asked that Porcupine be sent for to verify it. (Porcupine was one of the twelve Indian apostles. ) He, Porcupine, returned with the same tale, and presently all were converted. “

“We have a large number of extracts from different newspapers (says the editor) on this subject of ‘The Indian Christ, ‘ claiming to embody the assertions of the aborigines who state that they have seen the Messiah and heard Him talk. That a personage exhibiting supernatural powers has shown Himself:

1) The Hopi Indians claim this gathering will soon take place in Hopi land for all Indians.

and that He showed the marks of spikes having been driven through His hands. Be had offered to save the Whites, and they had refused to accept Him. And now the day of the Indians, who are to be restored to ownership of the land, had come. . . He also taught them to be honest, peaceful, cleanly, and to give up all bad habits.

To this the editor adds: “To say the least, it is a wonderful movement, and one is puzzled in endeavoring to account for it. “

“He sternly denies General Miles’ suggested idea that the Mormons are connected with this event: ‘Indeed, many Mormons are themselves conjecturing as to the meaning of this extraordinary agitation among the aborigines, and are puzzled to know what it means. ‘”

About the only official Mormon reaction that we can find, comes from Susa Young Gates, editor of “The Young Woman’s Journal, ” (a Mormon periodical, ) In Vol. 1:477, she states:

“Few, if any, of the leading Brethren doubt the probability of a certain, if exaggerated, foundation for these stories. Our Lord is evidentially setting His hand to prepare the scattered remnants of Israel for the great event about to take place.”

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