The Fate of the Sons Of Perdition

Feb 24, 2017

The Fate of the Sons Of Perdition

The fate of the sons of perditions has long been a big mystery in the Mormon church. Most believe they will never be forgiven or given another chance, especially when considering these words of Jesus about the unpardonable sin:

“whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” Matt 12:32

The word “world” here comes from the Greek AION which should be translated as age. These, therefore, will not be forgiven in the age in which the sin was committed, or the age to come. What is overlooked is that there are many ages after the one to come. In fact Joseph Smith used the word age in reference to our originating intelligence when he said, “Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it.” DHC 6:312

Such punishment is also spoken of as being eternal but the scripture clarifies this:

“Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment. Again it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my names glory… Behold, I am endless, and punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, FOR ENDLESS IS MY NAME.” D&C 19:6-7, 10

The scripture clearly tells us here that “It is not written that there shall be no end to this torment.”

In addition, this caveat is thrown in:

“And now behold, I say unto you, never at any time have I declared from mine own mouth that they (the wicked) should return, for where I am they cannot come, for they have no power. BUT REMEMBER THAT ALL MY JUDGEMENTS ARE NOT GIVEN UNTO MEN…” D&C 29:29-30

From these scriptures we gather that God has allowed his prophets to warn of punishments in the starkest terms to scare people into following the right path.

This tactic was especially needed among the primitive thinking people in the past who thought in terms of black and white. Fortunately, we are entering an age of greater reason where seekers can progress at a faster rate with a fuller concept of the truth.

Joseph Smith was a pioneer in moving beyond black and white thinking by revealing that all things that have a beginning will have an end. He said:

“I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man – the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. AS THE LORD LIVETH, IF IT HAD A BEGINNING, IT WILL HAVE AN END. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say the spirit of man had a beginning, PROVE that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true.” DHC 6:311

Here is another account recorded by Mathew S. Davis:

“I believe that God is eternal. That He had no beginning, and can have no end. Eternity means that which is without beginning or end. I believe that the soul is eternal; and had no beginning; it can have no end.” Here he entered into some explanations, which were so brief that I could not perfectly comprehend him. But the idea seemed to be that the soul of man, the spirit, had existed from eternity in the bosom of Divinity; and so far as he was intelligible to me, MUST ULTIMATELY RETURN FROM WHENCE IT CAME. He said very little of rewards and punishments; but one conclusion, from what he did say, was irresistible–he contended throughout, that everything which had a beginning must have an ending; and consequently IF THE PUNISHMENT OF MAN COMMENCED IN THE NEXT WORLD, IT MUST, ACCORDING TO HIS LOGIC AND BELIEF HAVE AN END.

DHC 4:79

If you as a parent punish your child would you consider punishing him forever? Of course not. If you banish him to his room, it will only for a reasonable period of time so the lesson sinks in.

Even so with God, who Jesus tells us goes further to assist his children than we do.

The punishment of the son of perdition (which in reality is self caused) will have a beginning thus it will also have an end.

This must be the case else this scripture cannot be fulfilled:

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” I Tim 2:3-4

Since it is the will of God that all be saved then our Father will indeed find a way to make this happen, if not the age to come it will be in some future one.

This was backed up by Brigham Young who was taught by the prophet:

The Lord said to Jeremiah the Prophet, “Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hands of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.” THE CLAY THAT MARRED IN THE POTTER’S HANDS WAS THROWN BACK INTO THE UNPREPARED PORTION, TO BE PREPARED OVER AGAIN. SO IT WILL BE WITH EVERY WICKED MAN AND WOMAN, and every wicked nation, kingdom, and government upon earth, sooner or later; they will be thrown back to the native element from which they originated, to be worked over again, and be prepared to enjoy some sort of a kingdom.

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 2:124.

“When the elements in an organized form do not fill the end of their creation, they are thrown back again, like brother Kimball’s old pottery ware, to be ground up, and made over again.”

–Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 1:, p.275 – 276

Here is my conclusion on the matter:

Our originating Intelligence is eternal and never had a beginning nor will it have an end. It created our spirits (called souls or higher self by some) and our spirits create our mortal essence. When the entity advances to the point where he can receive through the Holy Spirit, but rejects it in favor of selfish attachment to the things of the world, and persists until he is in such a state of spiritual denial that there is no return for him, then he meets the fate of the son of perdition.

His originating Intelligence will see that his creation is a failure and will draw back the essence to itself. Both body and soul will be destroyed over a period of time, which process will be long and painful for the lost soul.

The originating Intelligence will have to pass up the opportunity to move ahead with the other souls of the present creation and plan a new creation with a new paradise, a new solar system and new earth. He basically begins progression all over again and ages hence he will live again on another earth in the hope of making wiser decisions this time.

Fortunately, only a few meet with this total failure in this creation. Most will turn around after lifetimes of failure and pain that is caused by rejection of Spirit.

Many see Judas as the most evil man of all time because he betrayed the greatest of us all. What is not realized is that a similar betrayal of any person is just as bad because what we do to the least of us we do to Christ.

It is believed by most that Judas had the intent of forcing Jesus to prove who he was by showing that they wouldn’t be able to put him to death. When he saw his error he was so sorrowful he killed himself.

Now, if he was in the true state of mind of a son of perdition he would not have regretted that which he did, but would have been glad to see Jesus die on the cross.

On the cross Jesus said, “Father forgive them, for the know not what they do.”

Judas did not know what he did with his betrayal so it is quite possible he redeemed himself in future incarnations.

Copyright by J J Dewey

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Reincarnation and Mormonism, Part 2

This entry is part 2 of 6 in the series Reincarnation & Mormonism


The belief that reincarnation is the doctrine of the devil can be traced to a statement the Prophet Joseph recorded in church history.   In November 1835 a man who went by the name of Joshua paid a visit to the Prophet.  The man evidently had some truth for Joseph said he made some “excellent remarks”.   However, he was suspicious of him and discovered that he was Robert Matthias of New York who had endured trials for “murder, manslaughter, contempt of court, whipping his daughter, etc”  Despite this Joseph entertained him for a few days and finally asked him to enlighten him “on his views respecting the resurrection.”

Matthias made four statements:   (1)  He was a literal descendant of Matthias, the apostle of Jesus.  (2)  The spirit of Matthias was resurrected in him.  (3)  The scheme of eternal life was the transmigration of the spirit from father to son.  (4)  He was the Spirit of Truth itself and possessed the soul of Christ.

To this Joseph Smith said: “I told him that his doctrine was of the devil, that he was in reality in possession of a wicked and depraved spirit.”   Joseph pressed him to leave and upon his departing he said:  “And so I, for once, cast out the devil in bodily shape, and I believe a murderer.”  DHC 2:304-307

Let’s examine the four statements of Matthias and see if Joseph Smith was correct about him.  The first statement is the only one that may be true.  It is remotely possible that he was a descendant of the apostle.  Presumedly he merely assumed such because that was his last name.

On point two it’s very unlikely that he possessed the spirit of Matthias, or was Matthias reincarnated because the apostle Matthias was a just and holy man; whereas Robert Matthias was a suspected murderer and wife beater.  People generally make progress from life to life, not go backward.

Number three is also false doctrine since the scheme of things is not to have one’s spirit passed down from father to son.  One is often reincarnated in a body unrelated to a previous life.  Eventually we will incarnate on other worlds.

Number four is also false; he certainly did not possess the soul of Christ.

Interestingly, we who believe the true doctrine of reincarnation can say along with the Prophet Joseph that the teaching of Robert Matthias is the doctrine of the devil, or from a deceptive source.

A second major objection to reincarnation comes from a misunderstanding of the doctrine.  Many think that anyone who believes in the teaching fear they will come back as a cow, a dog, or even a rock.  This is simply not so.  We use a series of embodiments to gain the experience and knowledge necessary to take us from the man to the God kingdom.  Thus we are in a constant state of eternal progression.

An exception would be a wicked person who  refuses learn from his mistakes.  Concerning this man  Brigham Young said that  “They will be THROWN BACK TO THEIR NATIVE ELEMENT from which they originated, TO BE WORKED OVER AGAIN.”  Journal of Discourses 2:12

“When the elements in an organized form do not fill the end of their creation, THEY ARE THROWN BACK AGAIN, like brother Kimball’s old pottery ware, to be ground up, AND MADE OVER AGAIN.”  Journal of Discourses Vol 1; Page 275.

The sons of perdition, according to Brigham Young, will have to begin their progression all over again and to get back to where we are now will take  “Myriads of years.”

This conforms to the  doctrine of reincarnation which is this:  That we reincarnate again and again on the earth until we manifest God.  On the other hand, those who are very selfish and evil cut themselves completely off from the Spirit of God and are broken down to their native element and eventually begin their progression over again on another physical world ages and ages hence.

The third major objection to multiple lives comes from the Bible.  In Hebrews 9:27 we read: “And as it is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgement.”

The “once to die” sounds like an absolute statement not open to debate until we realize that it is boldly contradicted by the scriptures themselves: “Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to THE DEATHS…”  D&C 132:25

“They (the dead) were judged every man according to their works.  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.  THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.   And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast (to suffer a second death) into the lake of fire.”  Rev 20:12-15

Modern day revelation sheds further light on exactly what the second death is: “Wherefore, I the Lord God, caused that he should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the FIRST DEATH EVEN THE SAME DEATH WHICH IS THE LAST DEATH, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced on the wicked when I  shall say:  Depart ye cursed.”  D&C 29:41

What was the first death???  It was being cut off from the presence of God and being placed in a state of probation in a MORTAL STATE subject to death and disease.  We are told here with startling clarity that the last or second death is the same as the first.  Therefore, those who suffer the second death will be (1)  Cut off from the presence of God and (2) Suffer disease and PHYSICAL DEATH all over again. If that is not reincarnation we do not know what is.

After we are told that man only dies once the scripture says “BUT after this the judgement.”  The word “but” comes from the Greek ALLA which literally means contrariwise. In other words, it indicates that the information that is forthcoming may contradict that which has just been said.

That would  mean that “after this the judgement” may have an opposite meaning to “it is appointed unto men once to die”.  It would indicate an exception as in the sentence:  “I rise every morning at 8:00 A.M., except when the alarm does not go off.”

We shall see that when we examine the Greek word for “judgement” that the second half of the sentence does indeed contradict the first.

The word  “judgement”  here comes from the Greek word KRISIS. This is one of the most misunderstood words in the entire Bible.  Translators don’t quite seem to know how to handle it and have rendered it according to their bias rather than the actual meaning.  In the King James version it is translated as: accusation, condemnation, damnation, and judgement, but none of these portrays the word accurately.

The modern English word “crisis” (which is derived from the Greek word KRISIS) is a more accurate rendering than the Bible translations.  The actual Greek word implies a decision that brings correction. It is hard to give the meaning of this word with one English word, but the word “correction”  would probably be the closest.

The best scripture to help us understand the KRISIS is from John  5:28-29:   “The hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (KRISIS).”

Here Jesus divides all resurrections into two categories.  The first he calls the “resurrection of life” and the second “the resurrection of  damnation”.  “Damnation” is a mistranslation.  The Greek KRISIS is more correctly rendered “correction” or “judgement that forces  correction” and generally refers to the second resurrection.

Taking this into consideration let us retranslate Hebrews 9:27: “And as it is appointed  unto mankind  once to be dying, but on the other hand, after this comes (the resurrection of) correction.”

Paul also said that God “will have ALL MEN to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”  I Tim 2:4  Is God’s will not all powerful?  Does he not have power to fulfill it?  Therefore, will not all men eventually  be saved and return to his presence?  If not then God is powerless, which thing can never be.

The resurrection of  life, or “endless lives” as Joseph called it,  is not as easy to attain as people think.  We are told that in  the days of Paul “only” Jesus had attained immortality. (See I Tim 6:15-16) Paul also tells us that he had not attained it because he was not yet perfect: “If by any means I might ATTAIN unto the resurrection of the dead.  Not as though I had already attained, either were already PERFECT:  but I follow after.”  Phil 3:11-128

The writings of Joseph Smith are in perfect harmony with Paul.  In fact, he makes the resurrection of life sound even more difficult to attain.  Most Latter-Day Saints assume that when they are exalted they will automatically receive the resurrection, but obviously they have not read the teachings of their founder:  “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small  capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, FROM EXALTATION TO EXALTATION, UNTIL YOU ATTAIN TO THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.”  DHC 6:306

We  not only have to be exalted once, but a number of times before we overcome death.  After all Paul said: “The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”  I Cor 15: Concerning those  who receive an exaltation it is written  “And they SHALL (not have) overcome all things.” D&C 76:60 Thus even after one receives an exaltation he has to overcome many things, and the LAST thing to overcome is death,  and this only occurs after passing through numerous exaltations.

All those who have not passed through numerous exaltations will therefore attain another type of resurrection called the resurrection of KRISIS or correction.  These are the inhabitants of the telestial, terrestial, and some of the celestial kingdom, but    not the sons of perdition.  These sons of perdition will attain no resurrection in this sphere of activity, but will be sent back to  their native element to start all over again.

The scriptures tell us that the celestial inhabitants can choose whether or not to be subjected to death or endless life:  :”Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether LIFE OR DEATH, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.”  D&C 76:59

This is a very subtle scripture but there is no escaping the fact that the choice of either “life or death” belongs to celestial inhabitants.  After all, that is what it says in black and white.

If a celestial inhabitant can choose death again then obviously he would have to be reincarnated at some time or another.

Brigham Young clearly tells us that Adam was one of those members of the celestial kingdom who chose death instead of life:  “When Father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a CELESTIAL BODY…He helped make and organize this world.”  JD 1:50

He further quoted Adam as saying: “I once dwelt on an earth something like this IN A MORTAL STATE, I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation.  I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there shall be no end.”  Deseret News; June 18, 1873; Page 308.

We are clearly told that the celestial inhabitants have the are the only ones with any type of immortality: “For man is spirit.  The elements are eternal, and spirit and element INSEPARABLY CONNECTED, receive a fulness of joy.”  D&C 93:3

Who receives a fulness of joy?  We know the son of perdition does not and of the telestial inhabitants it is written: “These are they who are thrust down to hell.  These are they who receive NOT of his fulness…”  D&C 76:84&86

The terrestial inhabitants also miss this fulness: “These (those in the terrestial world) are they who receive of his glory, BUT NOT OF HIS FULNESS.”

Immortality in either of these two lower worlds is impossible according to D&C 93:33 because they do not have fulness of joy; therefore, their spirits and bodies are NOT inseparably connected.

Where does one receive a fulness of joy? “In thy presence is fulness of joy.”  Psalms 16:11  “They shall inherit the kingdom of God…and their joy shall be full forever.”  II Nephi 9:18

These scriptures indicate that a fulness of joy only takes place in the presence of God or the celestial kingdom.  Therefore, the celestial  is the only one of the three revealed  kingdoms where the spirit and body is “inseparably connected”.  Thus, of the three kingdoms, only the celestial has any degree of immortality and even there immortality is by choice.  They can choose “life or death”.  In other words, they can live in an immortal state until they feel they need some new challenge.  Then they choose mortality or “death” as did Adam.

The church has taught from the beginning that the earth is a part of the telestial kingdom.  During the temple ceremony in the telestial room the speaker reveals: “Brethren and sisters, this room represents the telestial kingdom, OR THE WORLD IN WHICH WE NOW LIVE.”

The description of the telestial world given in the Doctrine and Covenants  correlates with the information given in the temple  revealing that  planet earth (and possibly other physical planets) is the real telestial kingdom.

The highest inhabitants of the telestial world “shall be servants of the Most High.”  D&C 76:112 and the lowest “are they who suffer the wrath of God ON EARTH.”  D&C 76:104

We are further told that the telestial inhabitants receives “the administering of angels (as did Joseph Smith) who are appointed to minister for them, or who are to be ministering spirits for them; for they (us here on the earth now, the telestial inhabitants) shall be heirs of salvation.”  D&C 76:88

The original temples were built with three rooms representing the three kingdoms.  The saints progressed from one room or kingdom to another thus demonstrating with profound clarity that we pass from one life to another until we leave the telestial and go to a higher world, the terrestial, and finally, the celestial.

But that is not all.  The celestial is NOT the highest.  The scriptures tell us there are realms higher than this:   In the celestial kingdom “the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17 will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to A HIGHER ORDER OF KINGDOMS will be made known.  D&C 130:10

Higher orders of kingdoms than the celestial???  That’s something we were not taught in Sunday School, but there it is in the scriptures.  No revelation has elaborated on these higher kingdoms, and why should they?  The telestial kingdom that we are presently in  “surpasses all understanding”.  A description of any kingdom above the celestial would have no meaning to us in our present state of consciousness.

Those who fall short of the highest resurrection (the resurrection of life) and yet do not become sons of perdition go to the resurrection of KRISIS or correction and generally come back in another life to this telestial world.  When we fall short of the perfection of Christ the scriptures tell us that our defiled bodies will be destroyed and there will be a continuing separation of body and spirit until we overcome all things.   The word of God decrees:  “And when separated (spirit and body), man cannot receive a fulness of joy.  The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; (referring to our bodies)  and whatsoever temple (body) is defiled, GOD SHALL DESTROY THAT TEMPLE.”  D&C 93:34-35

Now we understand why it is written that “the wages of sin is death.”  Rom 6:23 When we sin and our bodies are defiled we are clearly told they will be destroyed.  This is why we are told that “the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” I Cor 15:26  We live life after life in the telestial kingdom each time sinning and falling short of the glory of God, leaving our bodies behind to be destroyed until we finally “come to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Eph 4:13) and manifest the glory of God through a life of sinlessness.  At that time we “put on immortality” as did Jesus.

The Bible agrees with modern day revelation on this subject:  “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?  If any man defile the temple of God (sin), HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”  I Cor 3:16-17

Paul talks about the two resurrections and informs us that one will bring “corruption” and the other “life everlasting”: “For every man shall bear his own burden…Be not deceived; God is not mocked:  for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.  For he that soweth to his flesh shall OF THE FLESH REAP CORRUPTION; (the resurrection of KRISIS or rebirth in mortality) but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting (or the resurrection of life).” Gal 6:5-8

The word “corruption” here comes from the Greek PHTHORA which is derived from PHTHEIRO the same word that is used when Paul said that God shall “destroy” the defiled temples.  PHTHORA indicates a state of “decay”.

Thus Paul is simply telling us over and over that if our mind is centered on carnal things we will not put on immortality but reap corruption, decay, and eventually have our bodies destroyed.  How else can this scripture be fulfilled unless we are born again and put  on mortality instead of immortality?  How can we “of the flesh  reap corruption” in the telestial kingdom if the inhabitants are all immortal and there is no corruption or decay?

How do we escape the resurrection of KRISIS? “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life (the resurrection of life), AND SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION (“Condemnation” comes from KRISIS and means the resurrection of correction):  but is passed from death to life.” John 5:24

CONCLUSION:  The scriptures plainly tell us that there are two resurrections.  In the resurrection of life we put on immortality, but still have the free will to choose death.  In the resurrection of KRISIS we  will continue to live in a mortal state where our bodies are subjected to decay and destruction.

Copyright by J J Dewey

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