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Alice’s Story

September 30, 2019 Joseph Dewey

Alice’s Story

Since the discussion has arisen on Alice A. Bailey, I thought I would let her tell her story in her own words. Below is her account of her first meeting with a Master named Koot Hoomi. Later he turned her over to Djwhal Khul to receive the transmissions essential to laying the foundation teachings for the new age.

It was a Sunday morning. The previous Sunday I had heard a sermon which had aroused all my aspiration. This Sunday, for some reason, I had not gone to Church. All the rest of the house-party had gone and there was no one in the house but myself and the servants. I was sitting in the drawing-room reading. The door opened and in walked a tall man dressed in European clothes (very well cut, I remember) but with a turban on his head. He came in and sat down beside me. I was so petrified at the sight of the turban that I could not make a sound or ask what he was doing there. Then he started to talk. He told me there was some work that it was planned that I could do in the world but that it would entail my changing my disposition very considerably; I would have to give up being such an unpleasant little girl and must try and get some measure of self-control. My future usefulness to Him and to the world was dependent upon how I handled myself and the changes I could manage to make. He said that if I could achieve real self-control I could then be trusted and that I would travel all over the world and visit many countries, “doing your Master’s work all the time.” Those words have rung in my ears ever since. He emphasized that it all depended upon me and what I could do and should do immediately. He added that He would be in touch with me at intervals of several years apart.

The interview was very brief. I said nothing but simply listened whilst He talked quite emphatically. Having said what He had come to say, He got up and walked out, after pausing at the door for a minute to give me a look which to this day I remember very distinctly. I did not know what to make of it all. When I had recovered from the shock, I was first frightened and thought I was going insane or had been to sleep and dreaming and then I reacted to a feeling of smug satisfaction. I felt that I was like Joan of Arc (at that time my heroine) and that, like her, I was seeing spiritual visions and was consequently set aside for a great work. What it was I could not imagine, but pictured myself as the dramatic and admired teacher of thousands. This is a very common mistake on the part of beginners and I see a lot of it today in connection with various occult groups. People’s sincerity and aspiration do succeed in bringing them some inner, spiritual contact and they then interpret it in terms of personality success and importance. A reaction of over-stimulation. This reaction was succeeded by one in which the criticism He had made of me became uppermost in my mind. I decided that maybe after all I was not in the class of Joan of Arc but simply some one who could be nicer than I had been and who could begin to control a rather violent temper. This I started to do. I tried not to be so cross and to control my tongue and for some time became so objectionably good that my family got disturbed; they wondered if I was ill and almost begged me to resume my explosive displays. I was smug and sweet and sentimental.

As the years went by I found that at seven years intervals (until I was thirty-five) I had indications of the supervision and interest of this individual. Then in 1915 I discovered who He was and that other people know Him. From then on the relationship has become closer and closer until today I can, at will, contact Him. This willingness to be contacted on the part of a Master is only possible when a disciple is also willing never to avail himself of the opportunity except in moments of real emergency in world service.

I found that this visitor was the Master K. H., the Master Koot Hoomi, a Master Who is very close to the Christ, Who is on the teaching line and Who is an outstanding exponent of the love-wisdom of which the Christ is the full expression. The real value of this experience is not to be found in the fact that I, a young girl called Alice La Trobe-Bateman, had an interview with a Master but in the fact that knowing nothing whatsoever of Their existence, I met one of Them and that He talked with me. The value is to be found also in the fact that everything that He told me came true (after I had tried hard to meet requirements) and because I discovered that He was not the Master Jesus, as I had naturally supposed, but a Master of Whom I could not possibly have heard and one Who was totally unknown to me. Anyway, the Master K. H. is my Master, beloved and real. I have worked for Him ever since I was fifteen years old and I am now one of the senior disciples in His group, or-as it is called esoterically-in His Ashram.

JJ: Thus we see that the Masters she worked with were not a dream or from her subconscious, but individuals residing in physical bodies like ourselves, but with the subtle difference that they are hundreds of years old yet still perpetuate their youth.

I was asked for a definition of metaphysics. Simply put for my use it is physics of the mind. In other words, a scientific approach to thinking and philosophy as opposed to a feeling, often illogical, approach to truth as it exists in many religions. Unfortunately, many religious people believe that a logical approach to the spiritual is misleading or even evil, but as we have shown by the use of the word “faith” in the days of Jesus, that evidence is a key ingredient in the pursuit of truth.

July 17, 2000

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HPB, Handwriting and the Mahatma Letters, Part 4

July 28, 2016July 28, 2016 Joseph Dewey

HPB, Handwriting

and the Mahatma Letters, Part 4

The question now is, if I am correct that she did write the Mahatma letters in her own hand, what are we supposed to make of Madame Blavatsky? Was she then a complete fraud who should be totally rejected?

I certainly do not write her off, but instead look at her life and works as a whole. There are accounts in her life that testify that she must have had help at times from a supernatural source and her greatest work, The Secret Doctrine testifies to a knowledge beyond normal human understanding.

In addition to this, Djwhal Khul through Alice A. Bailey, acknowledged that she worked under the guidance of the Masters and performed a great work while at the same time realizing her flaw of forging the Mahatma Letters. He said:

The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B., gave a hint to aspirants of that time when He said that so many of them were so “spiritually selfish.”

Rays and Initiations, Page 342

It is indeed interesting then that DK tells us that only a few paragraphs of all the letters are the genuine words of a Master and the rest are “the work of HPB.”

Here is what I think led up to the fabrication. DK tells us that HPB was Count Alessandro Cagliostro in a past life and during that life did not live up to expectations in the service of the hierarchy, but yielding to glamour did much harm to the cause.

Evidently Cagliostro used some trickery and deception to promote his own agenda instead of the Hierarchy and this flaw carried over in part to her life as HPB. The difference was that she used some deception, not to promote her own will, but something greater than herself. She moved a step forward from the life of Cagliostro, but did not distance herself from all past flaws.

Here is what I think happened. HPB did receive some true contact from the Hierarchy and had a true sense of mission toward fulfilling a part of the Divine Will. As she went about her work she found it was difficult to gain and keep followers and the Hierarchy didn’t seem to be much help. She kept thinking that if they would just materialize a few miracles that it would be much easier to convince people. Unfortunately for her the Masters are not much into supporting glamour so they did not cooperate in the ways she wanted.

She therefore decided to give the work a kick in the pants by producing her own miracles. In her travels she had gained a number of secrets from various magicians and knew how to do a few tricks that would appear quite miraculous. She used her skill to make it seem as if the Mahatma Letters just materialized out of thin air as well as other tricks such as making other objects appear or be found at some strange location.

These seemingly outward miracles did help her convince followers that she was in contact with a higher source, but also had the negative effect of planting the seeds of glamour that affected many of her followers to this day.

You’ll notice that Alice A. Bailey working on behalf of DK did not ask for or produce any type of miracle that would appeal to glamour. She did produce one astounding miracle and that was to write many great words that were beyond her own intelligence to manifest. Thus the life of Alice A. Bailey did not plant seeds of glamor similar to HPB. That doesn’t mean all Alice A. Bailey students are free from glamour, but that she just didn’t feed such glamours.

Similarly, I think the one important miracle in the life of HPB was her connection to the Masters. I believe that most of her writings are in her own words, but she received many impressions and pictures in her mind of various words, quotes and sources for her writings.

I think the hierarchy understood Blavatsky’s flaws, but continued to work with her anyway because there was no one else that could get the job done.

None of the messengers or prophets of the past have been perfect. Look at the lives of David, Solomon, Jonah, Peter, Paul, Mohammed and others. They did great work despite their flaws.

Does this mean that I endorse their flaws?

No. We must all do all in our power to rise above such things for flawed people produce a work that will have seeds of its own destruction built in. Let the servants in this new age not let their own imperfection infect the work but move forward with no deceit in a spirit of harmlessness to promote truth verified by the Divine Self.

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HPB, Handwriting and the Mahatma Letters, Part 3

July 24, 2016July 28, 2016 Joseph Dewey

HPB, Handwriting

and the Mahatma Letters, Part 3

The evidence so far indicates that HPB wrote the letters attributed to KH. Assuming this is true some of the differences in the look of the two handwritings could be explained merely by the fact that she wrote at a slower pace in order to make the script more readable. It also had the effect of creating a slightly different look than her normal handwriting giving some credibility to the idea that the handwriting of the letters did not belong to her.

A slowing down of the speed of handwriting may produce a less pronounced slant, larger middle zone and add or take away a few idiosyncrasies. The two writings do differ some in these respects.

What makes an analysis extra complicated here is that HPB was not consistent in her letter formations. She used different letter formations for the letters y, g, f, capital I, w, d, p and others. This shows she had a very versatile mind and it allows her defenders to point out examples of certain letters in the two handwritings that are different. For instance the f in the word “of” looks quite different here. Two KH samples are in the left and HPB on the right.

They overlook the fact that HPB was all over the map in letter formation and the KH samples had quite a bit of variety also.

Here are samples of the word “of” that are quite similar. Again KH is on the left with HPB on the right

Then too HPB did make some looped fs as noted below:

This same argument was made concerning the small letter p. KH seems to have a different formation than HPB, but if you look over all the samples you can find examples of similarities here also with the differences explained away by the writer using different writing speeds and attempting to produce some differences.

If a writer tries to make his handwriting look like that of another he may create a handful of differences, but there are too many ingredients in handwriting to cover all his tracks. We’ve already covered a number of fairly striking anomalies that are similar. Now let us compare some standard features. Links to samples of writing from HPB and the Mahatma letters are in the first part of this treatise.

(1) The Slant The slant of a writer may range from a backhand to being far forward. The general slant of both writers is moderately forward. This is quite common with about one out of three writers in this category. There are subtle ingredients in the slant we could go into but we want to keep this simple.

(2) The Middle Zone The upper zone are strokes like the small letter L that ascent above most letters. The lower zone are those such as the small G and Y that go below the baseline. Small letters such as he a, c, e, m are all in the middle zone. The middle zones are similar with that if KH being a little larger – which could be expected from a change in writing speed.

(3) The Lower Zone Similar though HPB did have considerable variety in the length of some of her lower zone letters.

(4) The Upper Zone Similar.

(5) Margins Both have small margins on the left and particularly the right with words going downward from the baseline when reaching the end of the page. This is unusual and in both handwritings.

(6) Spacing between words and lines Similar

(7) Evenness of lines Similar

(8) Hooks at the beginning of strokes Found in both writings.

(9) Letter formation Similar combination of angles and rounded letters.

(10) Break-away Strokes These are strokes that break away to the right instead of returning normally. These are in both writings. See samples below. HPB on the top and KH on the bottom.

(11) Letter Connections. The most common writing has all the lower case letters in the words connected. Then you have writing with various degrees of breaks between the letters and finally you have printing where most letters are not connected. Both scripts are in the second category with a similar amount of breaks between the letters.

(12) The T Crosses The T crosses in both writings are placed on the average higher than normal and are longer and heavier than average.

(13) The Capital I In both the acknowledged handwriting of HPB and the KH letters there is a wide variety of formations of the letter I, most of them somewhat conventional looking and somewhat similar, but in one sample I have HPB breaks away and makes a very unorthodox I. It is interesting that the writer of the KH letters does the same thing. The HPB sample is on the left and KH on the right.

(14) Signatures It is interesting to compare the signatures of HPB and KH. Below is a signature of HPB taken from the cover of the Secret Doctrine and below that is KH signing as Koot’ Hoomi Lal Sing.

There are three significant similarities.

(1) Both end in a flashy loop

(2) The lines creating the loops both get stronger as they go ending with very heavy pressure.

(3) Both of them have extra and unnecessary dots added.

That should be enough to confirm that the evidence is very strong that HPB wrote the Mahatma letters and not just part of them but all of them for which I have samples.

It is true that one can find a few letter formations that are different the HPB writing and KH, but you can also find differences between the early and later KH handwriting within the Mahatma letters themselves. The degree of similarities are very strong in all the samples and it is my conclusion that they are all written by the same person – Madam H. P. Blavatsky.

So, does this mean that I think we should disregard HPB’s life and writings? No. That is not my thinking at all. We’ll assess HPB and her possible motives work in the final section next.

Go To Part 4

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HPB, Handwriting and the Mahatma Letters, Part 2

July 21, 2016July 28, 2016 Joseph Dewey

HPB, Handwriting

and the Mahatma Letters. Part 2

If a person wants to disguise his or her handwriting from an expert he is up against a difficult task. The amateur will think that by changing one or two things that he can pull this off, but doesn’t realize that there and many different factors that are unique to a particular writing. The most common attempted change is in the slant. This can produce the quickest and easiest instant change but is unlikely to fool a handwriting expert. The complete slant is determined by the direction of all the upstrokes and an attempt to change the slant usually results in only the longer ones being affected leaving the shorter ones unchanged – and these are the majority of the strokes. Such a change will thus affect only a small percentage of the strokes in the handwriting and can fool some but not the seasoned analyst that takes a serious look.

Interestingly the slant is roughly similar in all the sample writings so there was no overt attempt to do this.

The next thing one may do is to change the speed of the handwriting. If one normally writes quite quickly and the writing is difficult to read then slowing it down will make it more legible and alter a number of characteristics. Many of us slow down the handwriting when addressing an envelope. One will want to make sure the post office can read the correct address so the writer slows down and makes a conscious attempt to write quite legibly. As a result the slowed down writing will look quite a bit different than notes he may take from a lecture. Even so, many similarities will show up in both samples.

The third thing a person can do is to alter certain letter formations so two scripts will have a different look as one compares them.

So, is there a change in speed in the various samples?

Yes, the samples attributed to KH are written at a slower speed and are more legible than Blavatsky’s handwriting. HPB wrote very quickly and her handwriting is difficult to read. If she did write the Mahatma letters it is only logical to assume she would slow her writing down, not only to change the look, but to make the letters legible enough to be correctly read.

Were there any unusual changes or differences in letter formations?

Between the writing samples I have of HPB and the 1880 KH samples there are no changes that couldn’t be attributed to a change of speed. However, the biggest changes on letter formations occurred within the Mahatma letters themselves.

Hodgson noticed this and pointed it out. He noticed that the small fs and the Ys and Gs changed in the letters as time progressed. The changes in the latter over a four-year period were most pronounced as you can see in the sample below.

Normally the writing of a seasoned adult does not change like this unless a conscious attempt was made to do so.

The Theosophists explained that KH may have had a scribe do part of the writing, but the evidence is strong that they were all written by the same person. And it doesn’t make much sense that KH would use a scribe.

That said let us take a close look at the handwriting of HPB and the letters, for if she wrote any of them she undoubtedly wrote all the samples I have.

When two handwriting samples are presented before me with the question as to whether they were written by the same person the first thing I look for are unusual characteristics not found in most handwriting. If even one thing shows up in common then this is evidence that I need to look further. If two or more show up then the chances become strong that the two writings were from the same individual.

Are there any such unusual traits in common between HPB and the 1880 Mahatma letters? Indeed there are. Let us look at a few.

In both samples the beginning capital T and some other letters begin with a large loop with the letter formations being quite similar. Take a look. The writing on the top belongs to HPB and the bottom KH.

Another odd thing in HPB’s handwriting is she often begins her letters with a large hook. A small hook is quite common but a large one like hers is fairly unusual. Notice that the KH writing (bottom two lines) shares the same characteristic. Also notice the similarities between the capital As.

HPB has the unusual habit of crossing two separated Ts with one stroke. Notice the KH writing on the bottom has the same characteristic.

Some very unusual strokes show up in some of HPB’s small Ds. Normally her writing slants strongly to the right, but then her D ‘s make an abrupt swing to a backhand while incorporating a large loop. This change is highly unusual and this trait is also found in the KH writing. (Always on the bottom line)

HPB’s writing has the unusual characteristic of having large gaps between letters that are generally connected within a word in a cursive script. Most of us have significant space between words, but not letters within a word. Now small breaks between letters are common in cursive, but not large ones. Take a look. The top three lines are from HPB and the bottom three from the 1880 KH letters.

These and other similarities give pretty powerful evidence that HPB wrote the Mahatma letters with her own hand. It would be highly unlikely to find these and other anomalies in the writings of two different people.

Next we’ll look at some of the general characteristics of the two handwritings and see how they measure up.

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HPB, Handwriting and the Mahatma Letters, Part 1

July 19, 2016July 28, 2016 Joseph Dewey

HPB, Handwriting

and the Mahatma Letters, Part 1

I was asked to check out the handwriting of H. P. Blavatsky with the Mahatma letters to see if the letters are in her handwriting or distinct enough to be written by someone else, such as the Master KH.

I am a good person to tackle this project as I have over 50 years experience in handwriting analysis and am not out to prove HPB is a fraud or otherwise. No matter what the findings reveal I see her as doing an important work and personally believe in the existence of the Masters.

I was surprised to discover that no serious attempt has been made since Richard Hodgson with the Society for Psychical Research (SPR) in 1884 to determine whether HPB or someone else wrote the Mahatma Letters. In consultation with a noted handwriting expert of the day he determined that HPB was the author of the letters – that the handwriting was from the same person. Then he also examined other phenomenon produced by her and determined fraud was used in some cases. Confessions and accusations made by those who turned on HPB did not help matters.

What did give him pause was this happening:

By the end of the first week of January, Hodgson, having little more to do at Headquarters, moved back to Madras and on the ninth he paid a call on Emma and Alexis who were living at Saint-Thome with a missionary family, the Dyers. In the course of a general conversation, about premonitions, Hodgson was just admitting he had no theory to account for them, when

“something white appeared, touching my hair, and fell on the floor. It was a letter. I picked it up. It was addressed to myself. M. and Madame Coulomb were sitting near me and in front of me. I had observed no motion on their part which could account for the appearance of the letter. Examining the ceiling as I stood I could detect no flaw; it appeared intact. On opening the letter, I found it referred to the conversation which had just taken place.”

From: Madame Blavatsky, the Woman Behind the Myth, by Marion Meade, Page 338

This unusual occurrence was not enough to change his mind as he suspected trickery.

The Theosophical Society never accepted Hodgson’s report but it stood as accepted by the SPR until 1986 when SPR member Vernon Harrison scrutinized the report and found various flaws within it. It appears that he investigated the report rather than refining an investigation into the handwriting itself. Amazingly, I cannot find anyone who has carefully compared Blavatsky’s to that of the letters since 1886. I guess then that it is about time that such an examination should take place.

I checked out HPB’s handwriting a few years ago, but at the time samples were scarce. All I could find on the internet was her signature and one ragged sample of regular writing. Now, fortunately, a few more samples are available, though not as many as I would like.

Fortunately, there is quite a bit of handwriting on the web from the Mahatma Letters.

I have a good selection written in 1880 and some others up to 1884. Curiously, while appearing to be written by the same person, the 1883 KH letters have significant differences in some letter formations from the ones from 1880. Such changes usually do not happen in an adult individual over such a short period unless a conscious attempt was made at making a change.

For my comparative analysis I will mostly concentrate on the 1880 samples of the Mahatma letters as they are consistent in style and I have plentiful samples of them. Here is the site from which they were derived.

For HPB’s handwriting I used all the readable samples I could find on the web. They are located at these links.

LINK 1 LINK 2 LINK 3 LINK 4 LINK 5 LINK 6 LINK 7

The question now before us is this. Were the samples I have of the K.H. Mahatma letters all written by Madame Blavatsky, or by K.H., or some by K.H. and some by a scribe? In other words were there one, two or three writers involved in the samples?

First let us put out the samples for the reader to examine. Here is one from HPB in 1882

Here is one from KH in 1880

And here is one from KH, verified by HPB as written in his handwriting:

Sample3 KH

The untrained eye will see that none of these are an exact match, but they do have similarities.

Few realize this but one of the first things a forgery expert looks for are two sets of writing that are very close to an exact match. If he finds such a thing then he can be 95% sure that a forgery is at work.

Why?

Just take a look at two or three of your signatures. They have similarities but they are not generally close to an exact match. Everyone’s handwriting will have some variation in it. Intelligent people will generally have more variation than the average person.

HPB was far above average in intelligence and, not unexpectedly, her writing varied much more than average. This is a good part of the reason that no one has been able to make a convincing case as to whether or not she wrote the Mahatma letters. She was a complicated person who was very versatile and adaptable. If she wanted to pull of a trick or two she would be quite good at it.

Now whether we love her or hate her we must take off the blinders and look at the evidence as it exists in the real world.

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Kalispell Gathering 2006, Part 21

March 3, 2010February 16, 2011 Joseph Dewey

This entry is part 6 of 24 in the series Kalispell Gathering 2006

Audience: What is the time frame on this?

JJ: The time frame for fully entering the Aquarian age is about 200 years. We are going to be gradually shifting over and there is still a lot of strong Piscean energy left in the churches – all the churches, Christian, Muslim, even many of the Buddhist and Hindu are still strongly polarized in the Piscean energy. This energy has to be shifted over from the emotions to the plane of the mind and when you think of the mind you think, are we leaving out the heart. Actually the heart energies has 12 petals, six of the petals are related to wisdom which is very closely related to the mind and six of them are related to different types of love energy.

So the wisdom aspect of the heart is very closely linked to the mind and in the mind is a reflection of the heart chakra. In the top of the head you have an exact duplicate of the heart center, so you have a heart center in the head and you have a heart center in the heart. The reason for this is the pure love of Christ is very mental because it associated with a higher mind.

When people associate mind with something sterile they are thinking of the concrete lower mind. The higher mind is very closely attuned with the heart energies so much that you can’t use the higher mind without using the heart to a degree because they are very closely intertwined. One of the popular sayings among the new agers is, well we have to be mindless and let go of the mind. If you let go of the mind then you are experiencing what happens when you dream. You let go of the mind when you dream and nothing makes any sense in your dream because your mind is somewhere else. You and the vehicle that is your mind is somewhere else and all that is dreaming is your emotional nature, and the emotional nature without mind is nonsensical, but it gives you something to experience while you are dreaming anyway and it is better than nothing. (Laughter) When our mind comes back and merges with our emotional self we can try to make some sense of it again. Any questions?

Audience: You mentioned about the old woman that was waiting so long to see Jesus, It is a man that is mentioned I thought or maybe it was in another gospel.

JJ: Maybe it was an old man; I was thinking it was an old woman.

Audience: In one gospel it says that it was a man and in another is says it was a woman.

(Note: It was a prophetess named Anna Luke 2:36-38)

JJ: Over the next 200 years the plan is to establish relative peace on earth and before Christ can do His work there has to be an anchor of stability on this planet. He is not going to come when the Jews and Muslims are still hating each other and we at war with Iraq, He will come once an anchor of stability has been established and if we can establish a little bit of stability in Iraq where a teacher could go to the middle east and teach among the Christian and Muslims then that would be the ideal thing to do, Hopefully we could do this without someone trying to cut His head off! (Laughter)

It is important that societies over in the Middle East be established that are free because part of His plan will be to work in the Middle East and influence people for good there. As Shirley saw, sooner or later a beautiful temple will be built. That is the plan, the Jews will eventually have a Messiah of their own but it will not be the Christ but will be another Master who will come and work with them. The important thing to realize is that Christ is not alone. The Christ is the head of the Spiritual Hierarchy of the planet. There are a number of Masters and the exact number is not given, but the head of the Masters of Wisdom is The Christ.

Jesus is one of them and Master DK is another, Master Koot Hoomi another. Quite a number of them that work with Him. They are all working diligently to bring peace on earth and good to all men. In the Mormon scriptures it gives a hint about the Masters, it says, “All are under the condemnation of sin except for Holy Men, that ye know not of.” For those of you that are familiar with the Mormon scriptures let me ask, who are the Holy Men that you know not of, that are not under any condemnation? The answer is those are the Masters.

The Spiritual Hierarchy of the planet that work with the Christ and will come with him and will work with Him during the Aquarian age. Some of them will incarnate and others will simply manifest in some way and still others will work by overshadowing disciples and creating a link and work with them. We will reach the point as it was in ancient days where the gods walked openly among men. So it is in the approaching age, the gods will again walk among us. The truth is that only a handful of people will recognize who these gods are.

Audience: What would be most important for people like us who would like to assist in manifesting these kinds of things?

JJ: In my opinion, the most important thing that we can do right now is to promote the teachings that I have written on these types of subjects, to get them out there and discuss them with people. I believe it is possible that these books I have written can be as popular as the Da Vinci Code one day. I spoke with people who have read the Da Vinci Code and the Celestine Prophecy and most did not read them in one sitting. About half of the people that read my book are up half the night, miss work and cannot do anything but read it. Now this tells us that it has potential to be a very big seller.

Another thing is that when a bookstore owner reads a book they then begin to promote it and tell customers, “hey you have got to read this book.” If a bookstore owner has not read it then maybe it will sit there until some customer discovers it. We are not in any of the big bookstores yet and Barnes and Noble refused our book. They said because this book did not have writing on the back they couldn’t stock it. I did not realize I was supposed to put some type of writing on the back cover but, we published quite a few and we cannot just throw them away. So it is just little things like that we do not know about because we are publishing it ourselves. So in our new book we put some writing on the back. We do have a supplier that sells to Barnes and Noble and I have a plan to get in there. If a major publisher would pick it up and agree not to make alterations in it then we would have potential to really go some where with it.

I have had two people from Hollywood contact me about movie rights for the book and I told them that I have not sold the movie rights and I have not heard back from them. Things are in the mix out there and sooner or later things are going to happen, it just a matter of time.

Audience: Inaudible

JJ: We’ve sold close to 10,000 or so of the “Immortal” and not nearly as many of “The Lost Key of the Buddha,” a couple thousand maybe. The problem is the time distance between the first and the second that we lost a lot of the ones that read the first. Now we have a trinity of books and anyone who reads the first book will want all three now.

Audience: What about Amazon that is where I found “The Immortal” the first time.

JJ: Amazon still orders a few and most of our orders come from small new age bookstores that order through our distributers. We have two new age distributers that sell to new age bookstore and they are fairly small bookstores and we do not have any of the big bookstores yet.

Audience: I would like to see it not in the new age bookstores because I think that there is a stigma attached to them.

JJ: Yes, it does not hardly fit in anywhere, the Christian stores will not take it because it is too unorthodox, the new age people are suspicious of it because they think, well John the revelator that is the Bible and this too Christian for us. The Course in Miracles had that problem, no publisher would accept it because they said it sounds too Christian and the Christian people thought that it sounds too new age and it had the same problem that my book does until somebody finally fell in love with The Course in Miracles and financed the publishing and that is how that book finally got into marketplace. Then it started to take off after they published it.

It was quite a few years before this happened because no publisher would touch it and they finally just published it themselves. I did not even try to get this published by a publisher because I figured it would not even begin to get accepted so I just published it myself. Many years ago and I was told that one of the best agents was Scott Meredith, I sent him some of my stuff and he is a famous agent who is one of the few that will read the material from unknowns, but you have to pay him. I was 16 when I sent him some of my stuff and paid him to read it. He handles some people like Arthur C. Clarke and some other famous sci-fi writers. I can’t remember all the names though.

He wrote back and said, “you have a great imagination and I think you have a lot of potential but this story is not any good because you are not following the right principles of writing,” and then he explained to me how to do it. I sent him a couple of my writings when I was young and he really encouraged me but then I ran out of money to pay him to coach me. He came to mind after I wrote “The Immortal” so I checked in with him again found out the he had died, but his agency still remained. So we sent some money to examine The immortal and the person that read it had a name that sounded like she was from India and you would think that someone from India would appreciated the teachings in the Immortal but she said they would not accept it as a book to promote and the reason is that “you are mixing teachings with fiction and what you need to do is eliminate all the teaching and just write a book of pure story and if you do that then send it back to us.” (Laughter) I thought, well that destroys the whole purpose of the book! So when the book sells a million copies I am going to write them a letter and say that you are completely wrong on how to go about publishing a book.

Audience: What about sending letters to famous people?

JJ: Many people sent letters to Oprah and some sent her a copy.

Audience: David Akins said that this would be the book that would put you on the map. Yes, and also said that Joe’s Mom would be dead by Christmas and that was six months ago, so who knows.

JJ: David Akins is fairly sensitive so you never know and I need to send him a copy too. He is a new age teacher, physic and a little bit of everything. He read the first book and was enthused about it and he recommended it to a lot of people and I had a tremendous number of people in Boise that read the book because of this guy so I must send him a copy of the latest book. He was not impressed with “The Lost Key” for some reason, I do not know why but he was not very enthused about that book. It is funny that some people really liked “The Immortal” and then did not care for “The Lost Key” What did you think?

Audience: It seemed like such a new concept and such a wonderful story and then the second one did not seem to have that “Pow” that the first one had.

JJ: Part of the reason for this is that Buddhism is really boring and it takes a lot of concentration to try to put it in a way that was not boring. But if you ever read the Buddhist writings they are sterile and boring to read. So to try to make the Buddha interesting was very difficult and I think this was part of the problem.

Audience: As a Christian thinking about reincarnation and the Buddhist teachings was so taboo and strange to me, it was “The Immortal” that opened my heart to the fact that we were reincarnated. The Buddha though was like arrgg! Because as a Christian it is like what is this, it is just that weird eastern writings and do I really want anything to do with these teachings?

JJ: Few of the Christians would have read the Lost Key if the Immortal did not first prepare their minds. But the great part about the first book was that it was condensed in this free book here. It does not go into reincarnation or anything that is considered weird; there is nothing in it that really rubs the Christian the wrong way. In fact it is not until they get into book II that some really start to have a problem. I was pleasantly surprised though at how many people who were pretty standard Christian that read the books all the way through and had no complaints. I thought that when they got into reading about John the Beloved, talking about reincarnation that would turn many of them away but book I seemed to have prepared their minds enough that by the time they get to book II they were more open and this was a pleasant surprise for me that I did not get as much flack that I thought I would.

Audience: It was weird how it sometimes works, I was talking to some people at this large Methodists church in Texas and the topic of the Da Vinci Code came up and she was like the pastor in the church got everybody to read it and we all went to see it. And I was saying, what? And she said, oh yea, we do not really care if Jesus was married because that does not change anything.

JJ: It is amazing that most religions don’t want to examine the possibilities of history. If He was married or not that is okay, no big deal, but the Catholic Church sure does not like the idea though. You guys have a really good energy about you and I appreciate your time and interest. I feel very little resistance in this group. Often times in a group I can sense resistance but I sense a high degree of openness in this group and that is why it has been a really good free flow of energy tonight and we have been able to touch the soul a couple times and this really a nice feeling. I would like to thank you for your presence, your openness and your willingness.