I thought I would post an exchange I had in another group on duality. I don’t want to rehash this subject again but every once in a while, someone brings up something that motivates me to respond.

We’ll just call this guy a “Thinker”

Thinker: Opposition in all things is something that devout LDS consider among the great truths of Mormonism. As a devout believer, I too believed that with complete sincerity. Later, I considered it to be one of the great lies that we live by.

I once had a conversation about darkness and light with a fellow who I considered to be one of the spiritually adept. He claimed that darkness is equal in power, might, and dependence to it’s opposite… which is, of course… light. Darkness is a thing, he said, it can overcome light, said he.


I thought that darkness is an absence of light. In the presence of the smallest light, darkness flees. The opposite doesn’t occur… at least in terms of visible light. In that same vein, there is no such thing as darkness, since even in the absence of visible light, there are other forms of light (radio waves, cosmic rays, etc.) present.

JJ: Interesting thought, but despite this logic I maintain that opposition does indeed exist in all things.

To clarify let me add some additional points.

Not only is dark an illusion, but light in this reality is also created on the illusionary principle of the wavelength. If all wavelengths ceased then there would be no light or dark. There would still be that great something we call God, which created the great illusion but it exists beyond the worlds of form.

Secondly, that which we call dark exists even in the greatest light. If you were floating in space close to the sun, basking in great light, and looked up at the sky away from the sun, you would see the blackness of space and would see none of the light of the sun. If the sun and its light disappeared you would see no loss of light as you continue to look at the darkness of space. You would see no loss of light because even though you are drenched in light you saw no light of the sun, only darkness.

So when do we see light?

We can only see light when light strikes a form and the form casts a shadow. The shadow, or the dark, combined with invisible light turn on a light, which cannot be seen, into that which can be seen as a mixture of light and dark.

Thus when you turn on a light, technically the dark does not flee, but the dark of the shadows is put to use making form visible – giving the experience (or illusion) of seeing light.

Thinker: So, is there opposition in all things? Well, the opposite to truth is illusion. But, illusion, by definition, is not real. It seems that there is only an apparent opposition… that a belief in illusion makes opposition appear real. What’s true is that illusion isn’t real, so it is not an opposite to truth.

JJ: All form is created by the illusion of the wavelength and that which we call true are the happenings and effects within the great illusion itself.

The one thing we can say is real is the experience we have for experience, even in an illusion, is real. For instance, we have many experiences within our dreams, but most will admit that our dreams are not real, but illusions. Even so, a monster can scare us just as effectively in a dream as it could in the real (higher dream state) world.

That which we call true is true within the framework of the illusion of creation, but there is a oneness that is true and exists beyond the illusion, which created the illusion. It is not that which is not, but that which is hidden from us in this reality.

Thinker: What about eternal? Does anything that’s created fail to pass away? I can’t think of anything. Even memories are lost. We forget, don’t we?

JJ: I agree. Anything that has form changes form and when it changes or passes away, that form is no more. All creation, as we understand it, is the of form and is not eternal. That which is eternal is the formless life, which created the form.

Form is not eternal but the creative process is, because this process originates at a point beyond time and space.

Thinker: As LDS, we say we are remembering. I wonder if that too, isn’t a lie. I wonder if we aren’t playing out a joke we have yet to get. In remembering, one wonders if these memories are ones we once had. What if the memories are new ones (ie. created)? (c;

JJ I’ve encountered a lot of people who remember past lives and have verified some of those memories, but never encountered anyone who remember the standard LDS pre-existence. The modern church has conjured up an image of life before birth that is much different than taught by Joseph Smith.

The standard LDS view is that we have only one life and before this life we lived in heaven with a heavenly father and mother on a planet other than the earth where God was redeemed as a mortal. Most believe that God had many wives and I’ve never heard of an account that sees us sitting at the feet of God with a bunch of wives with billions of children gathered round.

I’m not saying such accounts do not exist, but if such does it is rare and runs contrary to the thousands of memories that are available.

We are indeed children of God but that standard LDS view of God and his wives having regular physical sex to produce billions (perhaps trillions) of offspring on a far away planet is quite fanciful and does not square with memory evidence or logic as to how we came to be. It also does not square with any statement that Joseph Smith made – that I know of.

(Note from 2023: Since then I watched a number of near death experiences related on YouTube and have seen several LDS recount a preexistence vaguely resembling the LDS view. I find it interesting that one near deather was told that people with a near death experience are presented with circumstances that are in harmony with their belief system. I think there is truth in that as many have different experiences)

Thinker: Ever hear the trite phrase that “What you don’t know can’t hurt you.”? What a bunch of hoop-tee-law that is. I’ve been hurt by a lot of things I didn’t know. You too?

I think a better way to put it is: “What you don’t know won’t disturb you.” (c;

JJ: I agree that what we do not know can indeed hurt us. When it does, we often just do not relate the pain to our ignorance.

I’m convinced that the orthodox scientists of today are the counterpart of the orthodox theologians of the Middle Ages. Desmond Leslie

Jan 15, 2007

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