Gathering 2004, Part 29

Gathering 2004, Part 29
Hearing the Principle

Audience: I don’t understand how these masters can come and take physical form at will. Are they actually picking up a physical form or do they just appear to be physical?

JJ: They can recreate the actual physical form at will once they get high enough on the scale.

Audience: I think it’s interesting that Joseph Smith taught something that most LDS people don’t talk about. They talk about us having a pre-existing spirit but they don’t talk about what Joseph Smith taught about there being an intelligence before the spirit that was not created.

JJ: Right. The great mysteries in not only the Mormon Church but also in the Bible itself are rarely talked about by any of the religious people.

Audience: When you were giving examples, you said things that have a form had a beginning and end. Is there not an eternal aspect of these things that have form that do not have a beginning and an end?

JJ: The spirit that is behind the creation never had a beginning and never will have an end, but the spirit is formless. The spirit can call things into form and when it calls them into form they only exist for a period of time before going out of form again. The principle that governs form is eternal. The difference between principles and data is that principles are eternal. Any piece of data that’s true today may not be true tomorrow. If it’s ninety degrees outside today it might be a hundred tomorrow but the principle that governs heat and cold is eternal and will always exist. The principle that governs form and the creation of form is eternal.

When the scriptures speak of Jesus implanting the word in you, it’s not talking about implanting data. This is a big mistake that religions teach. I accept this piece of data that Jesus is the Son of God therefore I’m going to have eternal life. Accepting a piece of data is not accepting the Word of God. The Word of God is in principles. Jesus taught in principles. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. That’s a principle. The parable of the prodigal son illustrates a principle. All of His teachings illustrated principles.

And when you hear, remember it talks about hearing? He that hears shall live. How do you hear? If you memorize data or all the scriptures – you can know every word in the scriptures and have them in your memory and not understand one principle. So you can have not one word of God in your mind by having the whole Bible memorized. You can only hear the Word of God when you hear the principle behind what is said, and that is life.

Audience: What makes a principle something of substance? What makes it applicable in every way?

JJ: A principle is an enunciation of what is. A principle isn’t made. A principle is eternal and it always is. Like Newton says, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. He discovered a principle. From that he was able to deduce all kinds of things.

Audience: Isn’t it just explaining what He created us by?

JJ: God works through principles. Creation is different from what people think. They think God was sitting up there on a throne and felt kind of lonely and decided to create everything. “I’ll just snap my fingers and make everything be created,” He is thought to have said. Instead, what God did was He multiplied Himself to infinite numbers, or close to infinite, and these points that He reflected Himself into then found themselves in a state of uncreated form. This is what Joseph Smith referred to when he said, ‘in the beginning was intelligence.’ Man was intelligence. The reflected Sons of God were just intelligence. They used their intelligence to begin creation from the very sub-atomic levels to creating the atoms, to creating molecules and so on until the whole universe was created.

It wasn’t created by somebody up there on a throne. He plunged Himself into the universe and made the universe out of His reflections. We are the substance of the universe. As substance of the universe and as His reflections we have assisted in creating the universe. Keep in mind that everything has to be done by trial and error. We create everything by trial and error but we think God is perfect and doesn’t need to use trial and error. He just creates a frog instantly. When He decided to create a frog it was just there, instantly. He knew all about it. No He didn’t.

We’re reflections of God and we create by trial and error so what does that tell us about God? He does the same thing. He has to create by trial and error. If we’re really in the image of God, then we’re creating the same way that God creates. We create over and over. Like I said with the computer program, you do version one, version two until eventually you get a version that is so good and so perfect that it does everything you want it to do. No one will want a higher version because this particular version fills everyone’s need.

That’s how it is with the sub-atomic world. The atom is so perfect that every atom in the universe is created the same way. They look the same. They have the same types of particles in them. You don’t have a hydrogen atom here that’s one way and one another way on Mars. They’re all created exactly the same because once perfection is reached, you go with it.

Audience: Is that why we have so many lives?

JJ: Yes, we have so many lives then when we finally work out all the rough corners so there isn’t anything left to work on we move onto something higher, a new challenge. I think if each us were to examine ourselves we’d find a few rough corners to work on.

Audience: When you talk about the principles, is it similar to universal laws?

JJ: Yes, a universal law is a principle. One of the universal laws we’ve been discussing in this group is the Law of Economy. It means that everything with intelligence eventually gravitates to do things in the most efficient way and this causes a kind of natural creation of things. So the Law of Economy is behind a lot of natural creation.

Audience: I would define a principle as a statement of reality in an innumerable number of instances.

Audience: Is the statement, “Know thyself” a principle or a fact?

JJ: It’s a fact. Is there any enlightenment that comes when you say, ‘Know thyself?’ It’s a directive that you might reflect on. How can I know myself? How to know yourself is a principle. How do you go about knowing yourself? Let’s find the principle behind that.

Audience: Contemplation. Experience in how I act in certain situations.

JJ: You’re speaking all around the principle. If you say, ‘Know yourself’ that’s a fact, or directive. You’re not quite speaking in principle yet. Socrates talked around a principle when a man came to him and said, ‘Oh great teacher, I want to know what you know. Tell me how to be as wise as you are.’ So Socrates takes him out on a lake and unexpectedly grabs him and plunges him under the water and holds him under for about a minute or two, then he pulled him up. The guy says, “What did you do that for?? I asked you how to be wise like you.” Socrates replied, “When you want knowledge and understanding the way you just wanted air, then you’ll be wise as me.”

Socrates took this guy out and taught him the principle. If he just said, “Seek with all your heart for knowledge and you’ll be wise as me” he wouldn’t have learned as much.

Audience: When they get a download they get it in physical form then we’re left to interpret it without communication. They think in principles equivalent to them wanting knowledge as much as this guy wanted air.

JJ: It creates an idea in that guy’s mind that he understood in a way he never understood before.

Audience: Are principles desires?

JJ: The principle was really an experience because he had this experience. To really understand a lesson, you have to understand how the principle of experience is the greatest teacher. You need to understand the idea. A principle is related to an idea. ‘Know thyself’ leads you to an idea but it’s not the idea itself. When they guy came up for air he understood the idea that Socrates was implanting in his mind. If he followed it, he would be a great philosopher in short order.

Audience: There’s a scripture that I believe is in the D&C. As things are created in heaven, blessings are predicated’. . .if you make that connection is that a principle? You know that it will happen.

JJ: The law talked about is a principle. There is a law irrevocably decried before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicated and when a man receives a blessing from God it’s based upon the law upon which it is predicated. That’s a very good enunciation of a principle and that principle is basically a law of cause and effect. As ye sow so shall ye reap. That’s a foundation upon which all blessings are predicated. Joseph Smith put it into fancy language.

Audience: My suggestion is that a couple of us throw out some examples of principles and facts to see if we’re really got it.

Audience: I don’t think that would work well because I’ve received a couple of downloads that gave my information but I could not put it into words.

JJ: Let’s do this just for a minute or two. If you think you can tell us a principle, raise your hand.

Audience: inaudible comment

JJ: Yea, physics teaches principles. A person who is fairly scientific minded maybe will have an easier time understanding this. However, the female side can sense principles. The female may not be able to put them into words as well as the male but she will have a greater sense of when a principle is being enunciated. The male mind operating on the left side of the brain will try to put a principle into words when he senses a principle. A female is apt to try to translate it into her feeling nature.

Audience: Truth is true and nothing else is true. The fact that yesterday was 90 degrees was true and will always be true.

JJ: It could take us forty-five minutes to relate that. Basic facts on the point in time that they occur are true forever for that time, but a fact today will be a different fact tomorrow, like the temperature whereas a principle, overall, is unchanging. The principle that governs facts is unchanging and if we see through that we can understand all kinds of facts. We don’t need too much education if we can understand a principle. A person who understands principles can argue with someone who is an expert in a field the first person knows little about but he can listen a little bit then out-argue him.

Audience: It seems an easy way to comprehend principles is mathematically, like a good equation. For example, if I want to build a triangle or want to know the length of sides in geometric shapes, there are certain formulas that I can plug in and run it through and the formula will pop out the exact answer in the end. So a principle is almost like a process or an equation where I can plug in facts and get an accurate result.

JJ: This is a good example of a principle. We could call it a principle of equation where you have a piece of data and an answer from the equation. Like the area of a circle equals pi times the radius squared. There are all kinds of different circles and all sorts of different answers but you use the principle and get the answer. We use the same equation with different size circles and different data but the equation never changes.

To find spiritual knowledge is to use the same method. The principle is the equation which leads to the knowledge. If there is a beginning there will be an end; if there is no beginning there will be no end. There is no such thing as a beginning with no end. That’s an equation. From that equation you can analyze all kinds of doctrines in religions and find a lot of flaws. “You’re going to be resurrected and live forever.” Was there a beginning to the resurrection? That means there will be an end. Is there a beginning to you obtaining priesthood? That means there will be an end to your priesthood.

Audience: There is a physics fact. What in the universe is 99.9% empty space?

JJ: Everything.

Audience: And the only thing that gives us solidity is the electron. So in effect when we’re talking about anything, we’re talking about the electrons. Without the electron you have nothing to touch.

Audience: Is it a principle or a fact that there are seven layers of electrons?

JJ: It’s a fact, however the idea that seven is the number of planes is pretty close to a principle because it’s an equation we can relate. It’s a fact but the principle is the Law of Correspondences using the seven. The Law of Correspondences is a principle but that there are seven planes is data. The Law of Correspondences using the seven planes is where the principle lies.

Audience: You said principles are unchanging though.

JJ: In everything that has no form. A principle has no form. You can put it into form and represent it. You can write an equation on the blackboard but when you erase the equation, the principle remains. The equation still exists in formlessness.

Audience: inaudible

JJ: The original point is a principle. God is life and life operates on a principle. These two things interplay forever.

Audience: A principle is an energy that expresses.

JJ: Right and God Himself had to discover principles. He reflected Himself into this universe. He came here as an explorer, like Columbus discovering America, and had to figure out how everything works. Just as we discovered principles, the life of God is discovering principles. When we discover those principles, we put all the pieces back together so eventually God can withdraw from this universe. He comes into it but He doesn’t want to stay forever. He wants to come out with the fruit of experience that He gained.

Audience: Principles are very, very simple. Even the most ignorant person can be very wise with a principle. The ability to key into these eternal laws is governed by the way we live and that can be very simple.

JJ: Right. So to hear the Words of the spirit, to hear the Words of Christ, we hear the principles that He taught. We don’t just hear the story of the prodigal son; we hear the meaning of the story. The principle here is that the prodigal son squanders everything, and he realizes through the principle of experience that he needs to return to his father.

Audience: So when He says to hear, He means to know or understand.

JJ: Yes, but to know or understand you have to really hear. Quite often Jesus said, “There are those who have ears who do not hear.” In other words, they heard the data but not the internal principle in what He was saying.

Audience: One of the principles Christ taught is, “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” So, if I understand that correctly, if you are not free you did not hear correctly. Joseph Smith said we have to overcome all our enemies and the last enemy is death. Therefore, because of the bondage of death we talked about, is there a principle that sets us free from the bondage of death or is there a multitude of principles?

JJ: Good question. We’ll continue the discussion after we take a break.

What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents. Robert Kennedy

First posted Aug 24, 2005

Copyright by J J Dewey

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