Gathering 2004, Part 15
Audience: Usually when somebody wants to run for office, he stands for something. He wants the left to go right.
JJ: We try to make a balance.
Audience: I also realize that sometimes there is a need for the pendulum to swing to the right and to bring a balance you need to move people to the left.
Audience: I think they tried to correct some of the name calling and derogatory comments in advertising.
JJ: They’re fairly careful in those ads. They try to be somewhat civil. It’s probably a good idea that they’re forcing them to do that. The other groups who aren’t connected to the President, they can get nasty.
Audience: I have just a couple comments since we’re wrapping up here. I think there needs to be a point added about responsibility, that freedom and responsibility need to go together. There should be a principle that we could agree on that people need to take individual responsibility for their actions and not to expect the government to take care of them per se. The second thing is in point number three in the last sentence where it reads, ‘I accept the principles enunciated in the US Constitution Bill of Rights’ I personally take exception to that because I’ve studied the Constitution through other people that go through and make cases regarding some real weaknesses in the Constitution. There is a need for improvement on that document so to refer to that document that is old as we’re trying to evolve as a society. . .
JJ: Notice we aren’t saying what it lacks but the freedoms it enunciates.
Audience: I agree with him. People interpret it differently and it’s extremely divisive.
JJ: I debated on putting the Constitution in there because when you use the word “constitution” the right wing automatically flashes in a lot of people’s minds. It might even be better to use Franklin Roosevelt’s Four Freedoms or a more generic thing. We don’t want people to read this and think it’s either Liberal or Conservative. We want them to wonder whether it was written by a Conservative or a Liberal. In today’s world liberal things are called conservative and conservative things are called liberal. We had a test about that in this group.
By definition of what a Liberal is most people were more liberal than conservative. The most conservative people in the whole country are the environmentalists. They want to conserve everything just the way it is. Everyone calls them Liberals but they’re the most conservative of all. It’s kind of funny how everything is turned upside down. Going to Mars is something a lot of conservatives want to do and that’s a very Liberal thing. It’s not keeping things the way they are. It’s doing something entirely new. The language has been turned upside down. The titles are used more to make others look bad than to define what they are.
JJ: We don’t have enough time before lunch for anything profound so we’re going to turn this over to you. I want you each to think in your mind of some spiritual experience or revelation or something really important that’s happened to you along the path. Think on this and when something comes to your mind raise your hand. Sterling, come on up.
Sterling: First of all when we were doing a walk last night the person I was walking with was saying that when she was driving into Manti she got chills. Guess what happened to me last night when I was driving into town. My odometer was 666 and my clock was 111.
Audience: That adds up to 777! JJ, what do you mean by experiences, like visions?
JJ: Anything spiritual or something that changed your life. Keep it short.
Audience: In 1990 plus or minus a year, my middle son presented me with a copy of the Federalist papers. That was a moment in my life that completely changed my perspective of the world. I had the Constitution as a document but never realized the Federalist papers existed. Those were documents by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison trying to sell the Constitution to the New York delegation. That was a big point in my life. When JJ asked the question I interpreted him to mean a major occurrence in life that changed our ring pass not.
Audience: This is just a little thing which might seem basic to you guys. Christ taught to judge not lest you be judged and that concept. Something that my wife and I have gone through a lot lately is because of our views, because of our opinions a lot of people look at us and say things. In the political things we were talking about with allowing freedom of speech and allowing people think freely, to act freely and do as they desire to do without impeding on the rights of others. When we demand justice on others, we’re setting ourselves up to reap justice on ourselves. None of us are perfect. We all have faults and flaws. I might look at one person and think they did something stupid or I don’t’ like the way they do their hair or whatever. They might look at me and do the same thing but when we relate with others, other religions, other backgrounds and philosophies, dogmas, creeds, if we see someone doing something we might consider wrong and we demand that justice be paid in full, part of Christ’s atonement was to show the effects of the demands of justice. Here, He was the most innocent person and people demanded justice on Him and the demands of that justice on this innocent person we all know the results.
By demanding justice on others, we by default, demand that justice be served on ourselves. The other option is to fight for the mercy of others which becomes a fight for mercy on ourselves. In my life and as we’ve experienced and have seen more how things are working, the more that we can spread mercy and claim mercy for others, the more that mercy has hit us back and the more tolerance is created and more unification.
Audience: My wife and I have had a lot of interesting things happen. When we first got married, I found this little moonstone on the countertop in the bathroom. I was eyeing it. It looked kind of cool. So, I took it into the kitchen and asked where it came from. She said it was her moonstone but she hadn’t seen it in two years. I was kind of taken by it. I had never liked crystals much but I liked this one. So we went into Park City at Rock and Silver but they didn’t have any. Then we went to Sandy Heart and I found an amethyst layered geode. I thought it was pretty and it was only $8 so I bought the thing and started carrying it around with me. I bought a little book on crystals and read it. It said if you really want to dream to put your crystal under your pillow. I was sick at the time and didn’t have anything else to do so I put it under my pillow.
At 11:30 I awakened to a sensation, a vibration that I felt through my whole body, sort of like electricity but I wasn’t being shocked. It was an empowered sensation. Then it went into this oscillation. A far out experience all for $8! I thought it must be the crystal after it had been going on for about 5 minutes so I took it and put it on the nightstand and it stopped like unplugging from it. When I tried to go to sleep I kept seeing Egyptian images of Isis and the jackal and a little Egyptian girl playing with a ball on a hardwood floor. I saw this beautiful vase with an eye that kept closing its eyelid. I could not sleep!
Later on I went back to the store and I found those images that I kept seeing in my mind where the images of items that were sitting around it on the shelf.
JJ: So the crystal had taken in the images.
Robyn: Probably about four years ago, if I hadn’t had this experience, I would think that Ren was on something, but I was lying in bed one night saying the song in my head. I said all the verses then went back to the part, ‘wherever we will the light to descend.’ I kept saying that over and over in my mind. I was lying on my side drifting off to sleep. All of a sudden, I wasn’t in my bed or really in my body any more. I was floating and a beam of light was coming down and filling me up. I had that vibrating sensation all over. The only way I can think to describe is like a spiritual orgasm. It was incredible. I have no idea how long it lasted but what brought me back was my daughter’s voice. She was calling me. I came back and was immediately awake. I could still feel the tingling all over. I didn’t open my eyes but I could see a pyramid shaped image with an eye in the middle. The eye would change into a face which I interpreted to be the face of Christ. The two images kept switching back and forth with colors swirling around the whole thing. Again I don’t have a concept of how much time passed but finally it faded and I shouted, “Larry! Larry! You’ll never guess what just happened!” I was sort of walking off the ground the next 2-3 days. The sensation stayed with me.
JJ: If your daughter hadn’t called you back you might’ve had something else happen.
Audience: Were you meditating?
Robin: I guess I was meditating. I was thinking ‘wherever we will the light to descend and descend the light on me’ and there it was. It was awesome!
Audience: You don’t think it was a cognitive dream state?
Robin: No, I was not dreaming. I was fully awake. It’s never happened since. There were no voices, just a light and the sensation.
Susan: The same thing happened to me so I know what you’re saying is absolutely real. It was before I knew anything about JJ. In my situation I was shown this light and told to go over. Melva had just asked me how I got started and I told her I had this experience like you’re talking about. There was a circle of light and I was told to go stand in it. I stood in it. I told Melva outside that it was like having an orgasm through my whole body and every pore of my body. I could not describe it in human terms. I couldn’t have lived on this Earth in that circle because it wasn’t here.
Audience: What were you doing to induce that experience?
Susan: Actually nothing like this. I was a very active member of the LDS church. I had gone to one of the powers that be to ask for enlightening at that time. I remember saying, “I want wisdom.” I was led to a book, to messages, to JJ, to James Twyman. I even called JJ and I know he doesn’t remember because it was years ago. He sent me a bunch of books which I took to others like a domino effect. The reason I called JJ was that I was having vibrations like Ren talked about. It was almost like a cloud. I just described it to Melva as electricity. In my situation I didn’t find it positive. I was left brained all day.
Audience: There have been many experiences since then. I wish there was a way to bring that back. At the time I was only asking for wisdom. JJ sent me a copy of the song and I really didn’t read it. One day I was having a bad day then I read it. I can sense anymore when this vibration is going to happen. When you walk into a room or at night when my husband snores and I move into another room, I can sense that imaging. Now I say the song every morning and every night. It’s been great. Since I say it that light surrounds me and I don’t have the darker vibrations. I can see what I call electron clouds. I could see it above me and it would hold me. I’d be screaming for my husband but I couldn’t say a thing. I was absolutely paralyzed. I thought I was screaming but obviously I wasn’t. This was after the good thing.
First the good thing, then several dreams then the dark cloud. I saw it come up in the yard then leap right through my front window. It was always in that state of half dreaming when you’re just going to sleep or waking up and you don’t have your self all put back together. There is one other thing I wanted to share and I don’t mean to be taking a lot of time. Twice I heard music, different singing. It was a beautiful singing. I don’t know what I was tuning into. One time as I turned over in bed I was suddenly blinded by this light. I knew I was this light and it was me.
I remember thinking, “How can I be seeing this? I can’t be seeing this with my eyes because this is too bright.” At the time I was thinking that I was shown that I was inside my body looking out and I could see my eyes right there so I knew I was looking through them. I was seeing a light that was so bright and as I sat up I knew I was experiencing what we all are, the light. It was a guidance to me that no matter what I see or how anybody pisses me off or I allow that I know that I can look beyond that using that exercise that JJ had us do last night. That’s what it’s all about, seeing that light that everybody has. That’s what spirit was telling me and that’s an awesome thing.
I want you to know that. I have this wonderful light inside me and some of you will be fortunate enough to see it and some of you won’t. I was fortunate enough to see it. I didn’t have a crystal. I didn’t know anything about crystals at the time. I just simply said I wanted wisdom.
Lorraine: I want to go back to what Robin said about the spiritual orgasm. It is a feeling, if you were to have a physical orgasm it would be on the physical plane of the body or an emotional one on the emotional body then the mental one then the spiritual one will be even higher than. I was camping in my tent, by myself, nobody with me. I had a vision of a man that I loved lying beside me and I knew he wanted to make love. I said to him that making love isn’t about the physical. He said, “You’re right.” At the time I didn’t know what a chakra was so I had to find out later. When I said making love isn’t about the physical and he said I was right he just laid beside me and thought and my sacral chakra began to spin, which felt really good, really good. Then it raised higher and my emotional chakra began to spin and that felt really good. Then it went higher to my love/wisdom and it began to spin. It kind of took my breath away because it was so beautiful and I’m spinning all the way up to here. It’s better than any massage or anything I’ve ever felt in my life. It went up to my throat and I began to choke because I thought I couldn’t breathe or swallow so I began to fight him at that point. Later I found out that’s where my ring pass not is. It’s in my throat. For the next three days I felt fantastic. Everything was attracted to me, every man in the campground, every woman wanted to sit next to me and all the bees and animals around for miles. I was like a walking magnet. The female energy had been raised so high that everything wanted to be around me. I would walk across camp and they would walk across camp. It was amazing. That was the spiritual orgasm that lasted about three days. I was to the point that with that much power inside of me I didn’t think I should be seen in public. It was that walking above the ground feeling and it felt really powerful.
Audience: What did you do to incite this?
Lorraine: I didn’t do anything to cause it. I’d been reading JJ’s stuff for about nine months. I didn’t go backwards and read the archives. I just read books I and II together. I’d been online studying with JJ but I didn’t say a prayer or have a crystal or anything. These things usually surprise me when they happen.
Audience: Did you learn something from it? There’s that saying that when a student is ready a teacher appears. There is some reason you were ready for that experience.
Lorraine: What it taught me was to learn about chakras and I also learned that making love is not about the physical. The love that we have comes in all the bodies we have. We have a physical level and emotional, mental and spiritual love. We are capable of experiencing each one but we need to know what each one does. You can share a physical encounter with someone and just have sex and that’s all it is. Or you can have an emotional bond or a mental bond or a spiritual bond. I think that experience truly wrecked my love life because now that I know the highest, I won’t settle for anything else so I often say that JJ wrecked my sex life. (laughter) But it did teach me about chakras and about the highest and that making love is not about the physical. It’s about all the bodies.
Audience: JJ, is there anything one could do to invite this experience?
JJ: You’ll notice with all of these that the moment these things happened the person wasn’t really driven to seek at that particular time. It’s like the scripture says, “Store up in your mind continually the words of life and when the time comes the words will be given to you what to say.” It’s the same principle. Store up in your mind and heart a quest for searching for knowledge, always searching and doing the right things and the highest you know. In a moment that you aren’t expecting it, you’ll have an experience. Most of the experiences people have come at a time that they weren’t particularly expecting anything dramatic to happen. Energy follows thought so by putting your thought in the right direction you’re sending energy. When you are sitting back one moment not expecting anything there is sort of a vacuum which draws the experience down to you.
Audience: I would say that when this happened to me I was trying to be the very best I could be at the time with the knowledge I had. I was reading the scriptures. I was doing the highest that I knew JJ and I was trying hard but I wasn’t actually seeking this as such. The thoughts in my mind were that the knowledge would come one way. I did not realize it would come like that. The only thing I was doing was trying.
JJ: We keep hearing a common thread of three days mentioned. After a spiritual experience you’ll usually have a residual energy lasting about three days then you’ll be back to normal. Though oftentimes when you’re back to normal you have a three day period where you have a negative force come to negate everything you acquired in the spiritual experience. If you’re not careful you can wind up in a worse state than you were before because you’ll end up thinking it was all imagination or meaningless. A person has to completely ignore the negative when it comes. Focus in your mind as though the negative doesn’t even exist then it will lose its power. But if you pay attention to the negative it can draw you away from the spiritual experience.
Audience: I’ve only told this to my sister because it’s personal. In the process when I wanted to conceive my second child I lit candles and stuff so I thought maybe this was just a reflection of the light. There was a ball of light and I knew at that moment that I had conceived so I don’t know. I know some women are in tune to it and know exactly when they conceive and I did.
JJ: Yes, that happens. I knew the moment my wife conceived our first child. I just sensed it so even a male can sense things once in a while.
Audience: I think being a home birth wife and working with parents I think quite often mother energy can tap into that and know the moment you conceive. It involves letting go of our negative feelings on death. I refer to the day my son passed as his rebirthday. I celebrate his birthday and his rebirthday. I knew the moment he passed over.
JJ: I hate to cut this short but we should do more of this because you guys are a very interesting group and have a lot of combined knowledge and experiences. I appreciate you all and think you all deserve a hand.
It is honourable to be accused by those who deserve to be accused. Latin Proverb
Posted July 3, 2005
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