Crème and Common Sense
Here is some more dialog with the Crème supporter recently engaged.
Créme Supporter: I do not think you are lying (See last post). I just have no interest in believing or disbelieving your story because I cannot validate it.
JJ: If you told me that you ate bacon and eggs for breakfast I could not validate that for sure either, but I surely would not go into a nebulous state of neither believing or disbelieving you. I would believe you unless there was some evidence to the contrary. It is not logical to outright reject an honest man’s actual experience. It is true he could be inaccurate on small pieces of data because of memory, but for most people their general memory of events is fairly reliable, especially for something unusual.
Créme Supporter: I have the authority of my own experience and the validation of intuitive confirmation which transcends your personal anecdote.
JJ: If you say you had an experience I accept that you are telling the truth here. However, I may have a different interpretation of your experience than you do.
Créme Supporter: It is a fallacy to assume that my experience is a ‘preconceived notion’. There are thousands of people around the world who have had experiences of “Créme’s Maitreya, Masters and Hierarchy”. There have been hundreds, even thousands, of letters sent to Share International from people who have experienced a unique encounter or interaction with the Christ, Maitreya, and with other Masters, predominately with the Master Jesus. It would be unwise to discredit all these accounts, especially when so many of them are peculiar – but are still reasonable.
JJ: No one is questioning yours or any other experiences. Lots of born againers also see Jesus on a regulars basis. Do you also give them similar weight? I do. Many Mormons and excommunicated Mormons claim to have conversations with Jesus, Joseph Smith, God, book of Mormon characters etc. Do you give them similar weight? Many members of Ekankar have visions of their “living” Eck master. Do you give them similar weight? I do.
There is no denying that many people have supernormal experiences and sincerely believe what they perceive is the real thing. To say they are all making them up is not logical. But to blindly accept that each encounter with Jesus was the real Jesus and God the real God or Sanat Kumara is the basis of illusion indeed. Thoughtforms have great power to appear real to the great unwashed.
Even DK tells us that over 90% of all such contacts with the Hierarchy are deceptions of some kind and have nothing to do with the Hierarchy.
An experience with a thoughtform and a real encounter with the Hierarchy are two different things.
One of the ways to tell the difference is this.
A false encounter will produce no light, no new knowledge, but will produce false prophesies and platitudes.
A real encounter will bring forth new useful information or new light on principles.
If you wish to present an encounter you should also provide the new light that should accompany it.
Créme Supporter: For example, a person writing of their account of picking up a hitchhiker and that person being of good cheer and sharing wise advice to the driver. After arriving at their destination, they part ways and that is the end of the encounter. However, the driver never forgets about this hitchhiker and the conversation. Is it illogical to think that the hitchhiker was Master Jesus in a certain guise? If you believe it is – then you think of me as illogical because I do think that such a simple experience can occur between a Master. Perhaps not hundreds of years ago, but today in the midst of the externalization, yes.
JJ: Did the Hitchhiker say he was Jesus? If not then why assume such? Maybe there is one chance in a million that the hitchhiker was Jesus. I would think that the master has better things to do with his time myself.
Créme Supporter: The concrete, finite mind is a great tool but the intuitive soul does not serve the limited mind. The concrete mind can weigh facts, it can help book a flight for an airplane, it can aid in not missing the bus, it can learn the data of a science – but it is not the source of pure reason.
JJ: The last Crème follower stressed this same point and even advocating negating the mind (the plane whereon the masters may be found.” (DK)
When you ascend to the mind you do not negate the emotions, but you use them with even greater fullness and usefulness. When you ascend in consciousness to the Buddhic plane the same occurs. You use the mind more than ever. Instead of not using emotion and mind the intuitive uses them with greater harmony and synthesis.
Seekers stuck in the emotional glamour of guru worship almost without exception will have swallowed the illusion of negating elementary reasoning and common sense and give the following reasons:
(1) We must become mindless.
(2) The mind is not to be trusted.
(3) I trust in a higher logic and reasoning. You are stuck in the lower mind and cannot understand.
(4) God’s ways are not man’s ways.
(5) Outsiders do not understand the pure reasoning of me or my guru. Regular reasoning does not apply any more.
(6) My thoughts are not your thoughts saith the Lord.
(7) I am in the world but not of the world.
Yes, there are elements of truth in these statements, but they are no excuse to bypass reasoning and common sense.
Créme Supporter: Are all these experiences of thousands of people to be ignored? The skeptic may comment that it was all a figment of their imagination, that the most blissful experience they have ever had in their life was totally self-created or a result of violent emotion.
JJ: You have to realize that for the beginning seeker the highest spiritual experience they have had is related to the solar plexus. Many there are who think they have found the highest of experience but have merely touched the hem of the garment.
Those who have not touched the higher spiritual energies can be easily deceived by wrong interpretation of both true and false teachers.
Créme Supporter: The problem with the matter is that the Master rarely gives an answer that can easily be confirmed from the major news sources.
JJ: This is a general problem common to teachers caught in illusion.
Créme Supporter: For example, in the latest issue of Share International, the Master answers a number of questions about the bombings in Spain last month. I was thinking perhaps it was Al-Qaeda who are responsible – but the Masters information speaks otherwise.
JJ: Al Qaeda claims responsibility and authorities have found pretty solid evidence that they were involved. Why would you accept Crème without question on this when he is usually wrong?
Créme Supporter: There was no judgment made on behalf of Créme. He said that Kucinich is the candidate hopeful that is receptive to the mental impressions and desires of the Hierarchy and that the Hierarchy will back Kucinich.
JJ: He also said Kucinich is a “high initiate.” If Kucinich is a high initiate then George Bush is Yoda.
Just because someone is a pacifist does not mean he is an initiate. If you read what DK says about pacifists you’ll see that the opposite is usually the case.
Interestingly Crème said that the Christ marched for peace on March 20th in London Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Rome, Madrid and New York.
First it would seem that Christ would have to physically split into to be in so many places at the same time.
Secondly, an initiate’s work will generally consist of promoting a positive plan rather than taking the negative route of joining an emotionally based protest that is merely bent on destroying and offering nothing positive after the destruction is complete.
Créme Supporter: Quoting Crème’s publication:
If Congressman Kucinich does not win the nomination, however, would Hierarchy “throw the weight of Their not little assistance” behind whoever the Democratic Party nominates, given the global danger posed by the current Republican administration in the US, and their domination by nefarious forces?
JJ: So the hierarchy are all democrats? Hmmm. If the Crème’s hierarchy were as smart as me there would be no “IF about Kucinich.” Crème should inform his illusionary Hierarchy that JJ: has spoken from the higher authority of common sense back in Sept 2003 (in this group) and common sense said that Kucinich has no chance.
Perhaps Crème’s hierarchy should read my postings to save themselves future embarrassment.
Créme Supporter: The Hierarchy did not only teach correct principles in 1942 and today, again, they are not only teaching correct principles. They will do everything within karmic law to see that the current Republican administration is removed from the power they posses.
JJ: The Dark Brotherhood is doing everything in their power to see that democracy is not established in Afghanistan and Iraq. If Kucinich were elected then all this hope would be dismantled and tyranny would be reestablished. This is what the true Brotherhood is against.
During World War II the Hierarchy supported a number of directions FDR took including supporting the Allies in World War II, but they did not publicly support his reelection or announce that they are on the side of the democratic party (which was much different then than today).
You say you do not accept the interview of Sean David Morton because he errors in some of his doctrines. This is not a logical approach. I have probably never read an interview where I have completely agreed with the philosophy of the interviewer. A person can believe that the moon is made of green cheese yet be completely trusted when he is making actual quotes in an interview. Being a liar and fabricating quotes is a much different thing from being caught up in some wrong theory or doctrine. If you wish to discredit the Sean David Morton interview you have to show that he lies, not that he errors on doctrine.
Actually, if the interview is a fraud I would think that Crème would publish an article giving the truth of the matter – especially since the interview is circulating the internet making him look bad. He also could sue Morton if he is fabricating the interview.
I know I certainly wouldn’t sit still and let lies go unanswered about me.
Créme Supporter: I do not have the contact information to reach Créme personally, and if I did, it is not likely that I would bother him with such questions as to whether these “quoted” statements from Morton originated from Créme’s mouth.
JJ: That’s what the Mormons tell me when I tell them to check out quotes from their authorities. They do not want to bother anyone and never discover the truth.
Can you give us even one good paragraph that turns on a light?
Créme Supporter: I quote the following which is a message from Maitreya, overshadowed through Benjamin Créme, on September 12th, 1978. Read the message aloud, with willful and focused intent. The energy that flows through these words is evident to me…
“My dear friends, I am happy to be with you once more.
“Many times have you heard Me say that My Coming means change. Specifically, the greatest change will be in the hearts and minds of men, for My Return among you is a sign that men are ready to receive new life. That New Life for men do I bring in abundance. On all the planes this Life will flow, reaching the hearts and souls and bodies of men, bringing them nearer to the Source of Life Itself. My task will be to channel those Waters of Life through you.
“I am the Water Carrier. I am the Vessel of Truth. That Truth shall I reveal to you and lift you into your true nature.
“I am the River. Through Me flows the new stream of God-given Life, and this shall I bestow on you. Thus shall we together walk through My Garden, smell the perfume of My Flowers, and know the joy of closeness to God.
“My friends, these things are not dreams. All of this will be yours. My Mission will vouchsafe this to you.
“May the Divine Light and Love and Power of the One Most Holy God be now manifest within your hearts and minds. May this manifestation take you into the lap of the Everlasting God.”
JJ: I must congratulate you for being the first Crème follower to accept this challenge.
How about it my friends. Is the above equal in light to a random page from DK’s writings? Blayne doesn’t seem to think so.
My personal opinion is that I cold write something of equal quality in about 5 minutes being half asleep just using my concrete mind mixing in a little solar plexus feeling.
I see no new light here. If you do I would like you to point out what it is.
Créme Supporter: “During the course of writing this reply, particularly near the end here, I put myself in your shoes. I thought about what it would be like to have known about Benjamin Créme and his efforts 20 years ago, to be presented with this information that the Christ is in physical body in the world and is awaiting for the right time to make known His factual presence to all the world. And I thought about what it would be like to reject this information that Créme speaks – only to know one day that he spoke the truth. Would I feel anguish and embarrassment for disbelieving Créme year after year? Would I have the heaviest sense of remorse for the continual effort to discredit Créme?”
(Note his response was lengthy stating several times how much regret I will have when I find out Crème was a true messenger)
JJ Response: You remind me here a lot of my Mormon friends who reacted to me when they found out I was to be excommunicated from the faith because my thought process was supposedly out of order.
Here are typical comments I heard from them.
“Are you out of your mind? Don’t you realize what you believe is out of harmony with the prophet? When the day of judgment comes and you find out the prophet was right how will you feel then? You will weep and wail and gnash your teeth with the wicked.”
“Some day you’ll have an experience like Paul and see the light. How will you feel then?”
“The prophet speaks for God and when you realize you are going against God you will be ashamed and burn in hell.”
“You are in danger of being a son of perdition for speaking contrary to the authorities. There will be no forgiveness.”
“You are cursed according to the order of God – the priesthood.”
“You will lose you family and loved ones forever.”
“You will never have the blessings of God again and will die in a cursed state, a broken man.”
“If you are right then God will stretch out his arm and continue to give us chances, but if the prophet is right and you reject this great light there will be no forgiveness and you will dwell with the devil and his angels forever and ever. Do you really want to take that chance? Don’t you want to stay in the church and at least play it safe?”
Now your reaction to me represents a different ideology, but the idea is the same which is this?”
“If you reject this outward authority (Crème) and later find out that he does indeed speak for God will you not feel ashamed and will not your pain and torment be exceedingly great, perhaps more than you can bear?”
In other words, who do you think you are, defying the words of my outward idols?
Those who have read my books will remember that perhaps the most powerful mantra of the Dark Brothers is this very statement:
“Who do you think you are?”
Whenever a brother of light will seek to move away from the outward authority to the inner or to teach by the authority of the inner God while ignoring the outer illusions he will be hit with the “who do you think you are” mantra which will be followed with words designed to place fear and doubt in his mind.
“Wake up man!!! Do you not realize that when you find out that (outward authority) is correct that you will suffer the torments of the damned??? I sure wouldn’t want to be in your shoes when that happens. I’ll pray for you.”
These well meaning people who want to pray or meditate on my behalf do not realize that they are agents of dark force and carriers of the most powerful arm of fear based thought with which the true Dark Brotherhood works.
The sad thing is that this plan of attack works over and over with regularity. Only now and then will a disciple trust the inward authority enough to rise above the thoughtform of his group and rely on the Spirit within. Then after he does this he is attacked with this basic mantra from numerous other outward gods.
Now to answer your question.
Do I not fear that I would be ashamed and greatly pained if I found out that Crème speaks the truth?
The answer is a definite no.
There are two reasons for my answer.
(1) Christ does not expect us to be perfect, or to have all the answers. But he does expect one thing from seekers and disciples and that is this. To seek the truth and follow the highest that you know. The one sin the Master spoke angrily against was hypocrisy. Therefore, one must be true to himself and the light he has. I am true to myself and the light I have and am therefore glad and not ashamed when I discover new truth – no matter what the source.
(2) Without exception when I have made a definite discovery of something that is a true principle I have been glad. It has always brought me happiness. Therefore, no matter what the real truth I discover in the future is, there is nothing to fear – there is no great pain awaiting the honest in heart.
On the other hand, if one is not honest with his own thoughts, heart and soul and hypocritically denies reality and thus covers the truth from his own consciousness, yes he can indeed suffer remorse when the truth is revealed. He may kick himself and say: “Why O why did I not see this? It was right in front of me. So much pain could have been avoided if I had only paid attention.”
I am faithful to the highest I know and do follow the inner voice and thus continually receive the truth with gladness. I have absolutely no fear that the future holds anything else but fascinating truth.
And I am not alone. Many of those who learn here with me also receive the truth with gladness.
That’s essentially what Christ’s “gospel” is. The “good news” of additional truth.”
Truth is always good news to the pure in heart, but wounds as a searing knife to those attach themselves to lower desire.
When the Mormon prophet said we would never go to the moon and then I saw with my own eyes that we did go there I had to be honest with myself about my religion of the time. I had to go by what I saw and realize that he was just plain wrong.
I was somewhat amazed, however that my Mormon friends did not see it as I did and they expressed astounding comments when I brought the subject up.
Many thought he never made the statement and refused to examine the validity of the reference.
Others thought he was correct after all, I was just interpreting incorrectly. (Believe me the wording was clear)
Still others said he was just speaking as a regular guy here and not for God. The funny thing about this answer is that everything else he said was to be followed as if it were from God or you get kicked out of the church.
In other words, my friends were not being honest with their own hearts. They just couldn’t say their prophet made a mistake and incorporate that into their truth seeking mechanism. They couldn’t bring themselves to ask” “What else was he wrong about?”
Now to those who say: Will you not be ashamed when you find out the prophet speaks for God?” I say that, even if I find out he is the holiest man on the earth it will always be true that he was wrong about going to the moon.
The same applies to Benjamin Créme. He stated again and again that Christ would manifest on national TV and that all the world would see him and that he would speak to our souls so we would know that it was him. He set a number of specific dates for this, probably many more than is known. For one thing, the date he set when I heard him speak was not published anywhere I know.
The hard core truth that must be accepted by the honest in heart is this.
Crème was just plain wrong; just as wrong as the Mormon prophet who said we would not go to the moon.
Now the question to ask is this? Is the real Christ so deceptive that he would make such obviously false prophecies again and again? The entity making the predictions is obviously short-sighted and doesn’t even have the common sense that I do to see that it wouldn’t happen. Is the real Christ really that short-sighted? Are we to believe in a master that is not even a maser of his future two or three months in the distance?
The honest in heart must ask these questions and face reality as it is. If he does this then all truth that is waiting at the door waits with open arms and fullness of joy. If he is not true to himself then the truth will always be a fearsome thing to be avoided as a monster in a nightmare.
He who follows the highest he knows will never be condemned by the Christ or his own soul. What parent would ever condemn a child for doing his best? Is not God even greater in virtue than earthly parents? Verily, yes.
‘You can’t shake hands with a clenched fist.” Indira Gandhi
April 24, 2004
Copyright by J J Dewey
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