Visits from Immortals
I received a lead the other day on this very unusual interview. This guy claims to have been in physical contact with all kinds of resurrected immortals from the scriptures and more. Whether you believe it or not it provides interesting reading. Take a read and see what you think.
DAVID WHITMER – DESCENDANT TALK
NOVEMBER 18, 1993
After 2.5 years we taught 112 people and baptized 112. We never even taught a lesson to anybody except they got baptized. I mean we even hit the number one atheist in Tacoma who was a 19-year-old kid that had an IQ of over 200.
When he was 14 he had challenged every major religion to a big debate.’, He challenged the Catholics, Baptists and they would meet in a large ‘hall that seated 300 or 400 people. He had won every debate but he couldn’t get any Mormons to come and debate. The full-time missionaries would come and teach him but they wouldn’t discuss Adam-God theory, or polygamy, and all that. He had slipped in to one of our baptisms where we were baptizing a couple, and he had heard there was going to be a baptism and he wanted to see what it was like. Right after the baptism he slips out the door.
Arly and! were getting dressed and we usually baptize one or the other and then we would switch on the confirmation. When I go to confirm them I can’t find Arly. So I confirm them both and we get all through and I go out into the parking lot and there is Arly. He had slipped out and the Spirit had said go get him. So Arly had headed him off and he said “What I want to do is learn about the Adam-God theory, polygamy, and all that stuff.”
Arly said “we will teach you anything you want to know.” And he said “OK” come over to my house Thursday night.’ So starting Thursday night on we taught him?????? Arly took my watch, I had, one with the hand on it going around. He took my watch and he says “John is there any elements in that watch that you couldn’t find out here in the earth”?
John says “no.”
Arly says “what are the chances of all them coming together and actually working”? And John goes, he figures it all out, “really there is no Chance of that happening”. Arly, then says “someone had to make it, huh? “OK, I finally believe there is a God”. There is no way I can get passed that one. Then with tears in his eyes John says “now teach me about God”.
He ended up joining the Church and then he went on a mission, then he came to BYU and I haven’t heard much from him since. Arly would head off people all over town. I learned on that fifth stake mission how you do it by the spirit. If you don’t have revelation you have to knock on every door. If you have the Spirit you just pass up the ones that aren’t ready even they make an appointment. He is the one that opened the door on it. So when I moved back from Tacoma up to Salt Lake here the first week I went to church as a Seventy they Said “our group instructor isn’t here. Here is the lesson manual. Would you mind teaching us lesson number such and such”? I stood up first time in the ward and taught the lesson and after that they set me apart as the Seventy instructor.
The second week the High Priest group instructor wasn’t there and they asked if they could come in. And about three years later they made me a High Priest and I still teach in all the Seventies and High Priests and I was there 8.5 years teaching them. Two and a half years working in the River Jordan temple in the baptistry every wednesday.
I had a goal that took me fifteen years to reach. I wanted to be able to speak to the church of the Firstborn and the resurrected beings. Even going on a mission I needed personal revelation of some kind that said “Yes, I want you to go on a mission, and here is where I want you to go, this is what I want you to do”. Rather than just assume I am supposed to be going where the Church told me to go based on there was an opening that happened to be there. I wanted to be more. I went for fifteen years fasting, praying filling every position that I had, doing everything I could by the spirit until I started receiving my first visions and revelations. That would have been eight years ago now.
My first vision I had Jesus taking me by the hand and we were sailing over, what turned out to be, most of the state of Utah. We were at an incline about like this ‘/’. We are about two or three hundred feet in the air and He is showing me all the destruction that is going to happen to Utah. He kept saying “I’ll clean my house first”. My house meaning those that are the closest, those that have the most, will be where I clean first.
There ‘vas a woman climbing up over rubble. She was all beat up, she had dried blood on her, scabs, everything was a mess on her. She was digging thru rubble like it was her home. She was saying “Oh God, I’ve lost everything”, “I’ve lost everything”, and just a wailing. And Jesus said “no, you I’ve lost everything that you thought would save you: Unless all of you turn your hearts to me, and come to me, “this is what’s going to happen to you”.
I don’t know how long this vision took but When it finished I was sitting on the end of my bed. I went downstairs and walked around for about 45 minutes. I came back up and just sat on the edge of the bed and was just starting to lean back onto the pillow when the vision started again. It was exactly the same thing, exactly, same words, everything perfect. When I got thru I was sitting on the edge of the bed again so I went down and walked around for a little over an hour. I went back up and was just starting to sit on the edge of the bed when it started for the third time. After the first one ‘remember thinking ‘when my wife wakes up in the morning I am going to tell her we’ve got to move away from Salt Lake. After the second one we’ve got to move away from the Wasatch front and after the third one we’ve got to move out of Utah because then ‘remember seeing Logan, St. George, Vernal, and everyplace in Utah., ‘remember seeing headlines, like news headlines’ saying “Look what has happened to, Utah. These were God-fearing, family-oriented, upright, clean living people. If that can happen in Utah what is going to happen to the rest of us”? I was seeing newcasters saying the same type of thing.
Question: Was that an earthquake type of thing, or nuclear?
Answer: There wasn’t much standing. ‘remember seeing the temple but it was like the temple was sticking out of some water. I could only see the top spires of the temple. The rubble was mostly upon the benches but it looked like there was a lot of water here). Since then I have found out that there is a 200-300 foot shelf of salt underneath the Whole Salt Lake valley. A geologist at the University of Utah was telling me that that salt in the last years has been dissolved and most of it is gone now and it is just a hollow cavern down there. When they drill they can hit an area of 300 feet thick with nothing in it, it is just empty. So it is like the earthquake shakes and this falls down and then the water from the Great Salt Lake rushes in.
The Indians talk to say that in their prophesies it is something like the salt woman, they call this the salt woman and the salt woman is going to raise up and clean the valley. But all I can tell you is what I saw which was a lot of destruction and when this woman says, “I’ve lost everything”, all He answered was, “you’ve lost everything you thought would save you”.
I don’t think I’ve told you this but I saw a couple of visions where I could see me standing on a corner in Salt Lake and I’m telling people that now is the time to repent, now is the time to get your life in order. ‘remember a guy coming up with a three- piece suit on and a briefcase and he asks if he can go home and tell his family about this? And I say, “Yes”. I see myself there a few days later saying the same things and another guy in a three- piece suit and a briefcase comes up and asks if he can go home and warn his family and I answer, “no, there isn’t time”. I can see myself turn and like I was heading west and when I got somewhere out on the desert, I could see a lot of people behind me and a lot of people out-in front of me, all traveling, but I felt like a big whoosh behind me. It was just like something brushed the back of my head, and the back of my shoulders and my pants and the heels just went whoosh like something fell down. I turned around and it was like I was looking through glass or plastic.
Everything was swirling. There were people, cars, trees, and houses swirling up in the air and they had a horrified look on their face. That’s when my wife says, “we want to be in front of you”. (He moved right out to Vancouver, WA). I had an angel come and say, “you ‘re now ready to be rebaptized in preparation to receiving further ordinances”.
Question: Did the angel give a name?
Answer: He eventually did but he didn’t when I first met him). I went and told my Bishop, told my Stake president, told the 1st councilor in my stake Presidency who lived in my ward, and told them all everything that was happening. I thought that they would line me up an appointment at the temple or something to go get baptized. It was stuff I didn’t know much about, the ordinances for rebaptism.
I asked the angel, “what’s this about?, What do I need to do?”. I want you to go up to the Church archives and get a copy of David Whitmer, the witness, his patriarchal blessing. The next day I went up and requested a copy and they punched in the computer and said, “there is none”. So that night this angel shows up again and says, “I want you to go up and get a copy of David Whitmer’s blessing”. I say there isn’t one and he says, “yes, there is”.
I went up again and they had a supervisor gal there that kept putting it in the computer and saying, “there isn’t one”. So I went home and the next night here he comes again. I am thinking that this guy is a broken record. There is one or there isn’t. I wasn’t arguing with him but I just said, “they tell me there isn’t one.
The angel says, “there is one”. “OK, I’ll go”. I go up and just make another request and they say, . “there isn’t one”. I said, “Do you have somebody that knows why there wouldn’t be one?” There is a guy that has worked here for 45 years. He looked like he was 80 years old. He kinda looked like Joseph Fielding smith. He looked like he had worked in the archives all his life. He’ tried the computer also and then said he would look in the actual stacks. He came back out and said, “Yea, there is one back there but it’s a file that’s got all three edges taped together with red tape and red tape across the front. Written on the red tape across the front is “Do not open except in the presence of the First Presidency”.
The old man says, “the only way you can get a copy is by requesting it with this form”. He helped me fill out the form. I put down that he is an ancestor and I want a copy to put in my book of remembrance. He says, “that is a valid reason.” Two weeks later I get a letter from Dean Larson, the general authority in charge of historical department of the church, after deliberation, the First Presidency has denied your request for a copy of David Whitmer’s patriarchal blessing.
The next night the angel comes back. I said, “I am sorry I could not get a copy of the blessing”. The angel said, “I just wanted you to know there was one”. I said, “I believe that there is one”. The angel then said, “I am going to tell you who I am now. I am David Whitmer and Joseph Smith gave me that blessing. I am now going to tell you what was in that blessing”. A lot of the same stuff that he told me (he shifts directions here for a while)
Now let me jump back; When I was 2.5 years old my mother ran over me in a car. They rushed me over to the Sanford???? clinic. I had 68 bones broken and I swelled up and they had to cut my clothes off. The doctor said I wouldn’t make it to Phoenix and we can’t save him here so just take him home because he wouldn’t make it thru the night. My grandfather, the one who grew up with Spencer Kimball, . (more background about his grandfather) My grandfather had a little boy that drowned. The little boy had been stuck in a head gate of an irrigation ditch for 4 hours. The family members couldn’t find him and they finally went and got granddad. He jumped off the tractor and knelt down and he could see in a vision right where the kid was. He ran over and jumped a few fences and ran right up to this headgate and jumped in and the water was up to his chest. Even though the water was muddy, granddad could see where the boy’s hand was because of the vision that was shown to him. He pulled him out, put his left hand on his head and his right arm to the square and commanded the Lord to make him live.
Water shot out of his mouth about fifteen feet straight in the air. Every year on his birthday he gives granddad a book or a little present. My grandmother passed away one day and the relief society had taken her over to the church house to get ready for burial. Granddad had come home and found out she had died he said, .”no she hasn’t, she has a family to raise”. He went to the church took her hand with his left, raised his right arm to the square and commanded her to rise, and she did. He dragged her all the way home (sounds rougher than it was) and she had to take the stitches out when she got home. She still had the scars from where they had sewn up her lips and eyes.
They had five more kids after this. I am giving you an idea what my grandfather was like. So he gave me a blessing when I was 2.5 years old and was ran over. Everybody knew that I was going to die, but he told me I wasn’t so I didn’t. I still have a big scar on my leg that reminds me of it.
When I was 19 Spencer Kimball gave me a blessing and the blessing really scared me. .’think I was on my fifth stake mission in Tacoma when my grandfather passed away in Arizona. He passed away for about 17 minutes. He had had a heart attack and the paramedics had rushed him to the hospital and they were preparing an operating room for him. He was all hooked up to the machines and had left him alone in a dark room and when they came back the machines showed he was dead flat for 17 minutes. Grandfather said he had met the Lord and had talked the Lord into letting him come back. He wanted all of his posterity to come down and hear his testimony.
The whole family went to Arizona. I would have been about 30 years old. (I could have been anywhere from 28 to 32). Grandfather told everyone how he had met the Lord, what it was like, and how long he knew his wife would still be here. Grandfather told everyone that he had come back to bear his testimony that the Lord lives and has been resurrected, etc.
That afternoon he came and took me by the hand and took me out around the house where there are no windows on one side and where a trampoline is, which they leaned on. Grandfather said, “The only reason I came back is to repeat a blessing to you. The Lord told me to repeat a blessing to you. Do you remember the blessing I gave you when you got ran over?” I said, “I remember that you gave me a blessing but I don’t know what was in it.” He said, “no one has told you what was in it?” I said, “no.” When he started talking about the third word I knew it was, word for word, the same blessing that Spencer Kimball had given me in his office when I was nineteen. It had some of the same stuff in it that David Whitmer’s patriarchal blessing had that he was given by Joseph Smith. The one that is sealed at the archives that can’t be opened except the First Presidency is there.
Every time I’ve heard the blessing it scared me. It is mainly dealing with family though. From the church standpoint it deals with family. I have a mission with my family. . . (1985) The Lord took me on those three trips of destruction, preaching on the corner, and then my two grandfather’s appeared to me. They had both died since then. They appeared to me in my bedroom. My dad’s father and my mother’s father. My mother’s father didn’t say anything but he would nod his head whenever my other grandfather would talk. (background) Both grandfather’s served full-time missions, both married in the temple, both had four sons and four daughters each, all their sons and half the daughters of each served full-time missions, they all married in the temple and served in bishoprics and stake presidencies. Three sons are stake patriarchs now. They are both real straight arrow type families, real solid.
One grandfather has 63 grandchildren and the other has 64 and all of them married in the temple. Both of them served full time missions with their wives after they retired. One worked 20 years and the other worked 22 in the Mesa Temple and the Salt Lake Temple. With that background here they are telling me “Where we are we can’t progress until you, on the path you are on, continue on that path and receive the Patriarchal Priesthood, and the sealing power of Elijah and seal us into your family.”
I said, “What, say what?” They told me this three times that night, “You need to go on your path, and stay on it, and obtain the Patriarchal Priesthood and the sealing power of Elijah and seal us into your family or we can’t progress.” I went through two months of searching everything trying to figure out what they are talking about. They have done everything that I hoped to do, they covered all their bases, they have done everything by the numbers. I am wondering what they missed, or what they say they have missed out on. The next Sunday, after they visited me I got up to teach the High Priests and Seventies and I prepared whatever the lesson was, and when I opened my mouth the Spirit had me give a whole lesson on the Patriarchal Priesthood and none of it I had ever heard before. I was just like a spectator in the room listening to the same lecture on Patriarchal Priesthood. I couldn’t believe it.
On the Aaronic level men hold the Priesthood because they need to learn how to serve others.’ Women don’t need the Priesthood because they already serve others, they already know how so they don’t need to learn it. On the Melchizedek level the woman share in the Priesthood with their husbands, but they don’t need their husband there to do it. They can anoint with oil, they can bless, they did it back in Joseph Smith’s time, and in Brigham Young’s time. On the Patriarchal level they hold the priesthood independent of their husband and some can have a higher Priesthood than their husband has but it is all independent.
I am saying all this and saying where is all this coming from? I have never heard this, never saw it, don’t even have a whisp of it. I get the Whole thing out and afterwards, out of 32 men in the class, at least 20 come up and say we have never heard anything about this. Where did you get this? I said, “I have no idea.”
That was Sunday and on Wednesday we had stake temple night. Out of those 32 men 30 went to the temple but I did not go. I got 2 phone calls at 11:00 that night. The Bishop and the first councilor both called and said, “Boy, you wouldn’t believe what happened to us tonight. We went to the temple and had an hour set aside for a question and answer time to talk about things you can’t talk about except in the temple. When we got there and the temple President came in and said, “We have a letter from the First Presidency saying that we cannot give these question and answer periods anymore. We are only supposed to give you a lecture on the importance of corning to the Temple.” He introduces his first councilor who is going to give us the lecture and then the President left. When the first councilor opened his mouth, Out comes every word that you (David) said on the Patriarchal Priesthood but the first councilor also had all the footnotes, he had every place that you go to get that information.
Right after the lecture the bishop made an appointment with him for you and I to go to his house. He is a stake patriarch and he is the first councilor in the River Jordan temple. Saturday at 8:00 a.m. he will show us where he got all this. John Taylor, Brigham Young Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff were all quoted. The two brethren from his ward stated that this was a second witness.
It was a Sunday or two after that that I was told to resign from my job as teacher of the High Priests and Seventies and concentrate on my family. I told the High Priest group leader that I wanted to be released and he asked why. I told him that I was supposed to concentrate on my family. When I got home that day the stake president calls me and comes rushing over to my house. He had been the president for 2 months. Prior to that time he had served in the presidency for 8 years. He went through a lot of scriptures but his bottom line was; “When I was in seminary my seminary teacher showed me these scriptures and told me that I need to develop my own personal relationship with’ the Lord, that I need to have communion with the Church of the First-Born, and the resurrected, and righteous, and just saints. I need to have ministering angels. He listed them all.
Then he continued by saying, I went on a full-time mission, I got married in the temple and I was put right in the bishopric, then I was made the next bishop. Then I went right into the stake presidency and ! was the first councilor for 11 years and now I am the stake president. This has not happened to me and it can’t be happening to you. I have to excommunicate you because! don’t want anybody following you, I don’t want anybody coming over and talking with you and if I don’t excommunicate you then everybody will.”
That was the most devastating thing I have heard about in my life. Number one I can tell you that if you say that membership in the church is more important to you than a personal relationship with the Lord, I can tell you what you are going to end up losing because that is one of the first things that will go. I went through a week and a half of horror. I plead with the Lord, I prayed, I would do anything. My whole goal up until that time was to become wealthy in construction and then teach seminary for a $l.00/yr wherever they wanted me to. That is all I actually wanted to do and I only had a half of a year of college to finish. I just wanted to teach for a dollar a year and then take my students during the summer and put them in my construction crew and teach them how to work and how to be a son or daughter of God all the time you are working and enjoy it.
(So they went ahead with the action?) “Yes.” The stake president said, “I don’t even want you at the trial, it won’t make any difference, I’m going to excommunicate you anyway.”
Question: Did they give you any reasons?
Answer: The stake president said, ” I’m just going to put down that you have departed ‘from the doctrine of Christ.” ‘I actually went over and drove around the church house, at least five times, when the trial was going on because I wanted to go. I actually had angels that kept me from going but I wanted to go anyway just so I could say I listened to it and see how it was.
I had three high council men come over to my house afterwards and say, “Every time he would ask for a vote we would all vote ‘no.’ We saw no reason to excommunicate you. Then he finally read a letter from one of the Seventies. It was a Poulson, or something like that. But he’ read a letter from a General Authority and in the letter it said something about following the advice of your Priesthood leaders. I don’t know the wording of it. I kinda had their versions so I won’t get into because I wasn’t sure but in it, it said that if ‘your Priesthood leader chooses the way to go you have to sustain him. After the third ‘no’, and the stake president was the only one to vote to excommunicate me. He read this letter from one of the General Authorities and then said, “I as your stake president have chosen to excommunicate him so therefore to sustain me you all have to vote yes.”
Then we all voted yes because we wanted to obey our Priesthood leader. I said, “That’s fine it doesn’t bother me a bit.” The reason it didn’t bother me was because the Lord, in one of the nights I was in this anguish, came and said, “David, what man gives you man can take away. Let them. Now what I’m going to give you no man can take away. Now which one is it you want? What is that you want to hang on to?
I’ll take whatever You are going to give me.” That was the bottom line and so from then on it didn’t bother rue. Since then, I’ll just run through the next year or two.
I was baptized by John the Baptist into the Church of Christ. Not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints but into what they call the Church of Christ, that level. Then I was baptized into the Church of Enoch and then I was baptized into the church of the Firstborn.
Question: I don’t understand What the Church of Christ is.
Answer: It is part of the Kingdom of God.
Question: You can’t go directly from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints to the Church of the Firstborn. Is that what you are saying?
Answer: I can’t even envision how that would happen. You have seven levels. The Book of Revelations is primarily for just these people in the last-days. The elect people in the last-days can read the Book of Revelations and it is just for them. When John keeps saying ‘let him Who hath an ear, hear’ what he is saying is if you can hear what I am saying this is just for you. It isn’t for anyone else. It hasn’t been for anyone else in the entire ages until right now.
There is seven churches in there that they talk about; Ephesus, Smyrna, Thyatira (see Revelation chapter 1:11). All they represent is the seven levels you personally have to go through getting into the presence of God. There is the Church of the setting in Order, that is the first one. The Church of the Restoration, the Church of Christ, the Church of Noah, the Church of Abraham, the Church of Enoch, and then the Church of the Firstborn.
Question: They are not called that in the Book of Revelations?
Answer: no, but the spirit will teach you what it is all about. John has written it in such a way that nobody by their reasoning power can figure out what he is talking about. As you progress through those levels, basically what it means is, you have to prepare your body for the I AM spirit in you to now fill that temple with the Spirit of God – which it is. When that spirit, the I AM of you, receives its glory it will burn the carnal body up because the carnal body hasn’t been prepared yet. You have to (prepare your body so that every physical cell in your body matches , the spiritual cell of your spirit body. When the spirit is in control and every cell of the spirit of you is in control of your physical body it will go through that, seven year process of replacing every cell to match perfectly, DNA and everything, with that spirit body. Then, and only then, will that body be able to withstand the Glory of God.
The Second coming of the Lord is just talking about the spirit of you coming forth and taking over.
Question: In order to do this you have to be baptized into the Church of Christ?
Answer: That is just one of the levels. It isn’t that you have to be baptized in it’s that the church of the setting in order means the physical part of you and your mental mind has to, let the Spirit start setting yourself in order. Then you have to restore all things. You have to restore everything so that the spirit has all the power.
Then the Christ level of Church means that the I AM part of you is now taking over everything. Not just beating your heart, which it already does, the spirit part of you controls beating your heart, and your eyes blinking. If you had to think about it and do it yourself your mind would wander and your heart would stop. You have to obtain a faith in Christ enough that you say I know you’re beating my heart I so I know that you can control the rest of my life. You can control what I eat, when I sleep, what I think, where I go and what I do. I’ll turn my life over to you and let you control it. That’s’ putting faith in Christ. You believe it will take care of you. Then God feeds you, God’ clothes you, and God takes care of you.
Now you’re putting yourself into His hands. As that spirit now renews your body and replaces those cells (pause) I’ll go to the Sacrament level. On the Aaronic level the sacrament is bread and water. On the Melchizedek level the sacrament is red wine and unleavened bread. On the Patriarchal level the sacrament is everything you eat becomes your flesh. It becomes the flesh of the I AM spirit part of you which is the same as the spirit I AM part that’s in Jesus. The part of Jesus that’s the Christ’ is the I AM part that’s in Him so therefore the I AM part that’s in you can become the same in Christ.
As, the spirit takes over and you eat something you sanctify it because it becomes your flesh. That’s taking upon you His name – you’re becoming that Christ. As you eat you sanctify it and it becomes your flesh, you drink and sanctify it and it becomes the blood in you. Have you been washed by the blood of the Lamb means let the blood in you” as you drink this it becomes your blood – let that blood cleanse and as the spirit casts out of each cell that which is unclean – it can be preservatives or whatever is in there – but as it cleanses every cell it puts it in the blood and the blood is what’s washing you clean.
As that blood washes you clean and as What you eat keeps replacing your body you become a body that matches perfectly the spiritual body that’s already in there. Then you’ll be able to withstand Jesus’s presence or the Father’s presence.
Question: You had this vision where Jesus came to take you before you had this?
Answer: The Holy Ghost can cover you and do all that. They can take you to the city of Enoch to baptize you in the Temple there and they just clothe you in the Holy Ghost and take you there – that’s all that amounts to. It’s like a spiritual person stands right behind but you’re enveloped in their aura so then as you go through it can’t bother you. What does Nephi say – the Holy Ghost will tell you all things whatsoever you should do.
The Holy Ghost, all it means is that it’s complete. A complete whole, w-h-o-l-e. As your spirit becomes whole and in charge of the whole body it’s a Holy Spirit – it’s complete and that’s all they’re talking about. Now the Holy Ghost out there is anyone on the sanctified, any of the Church of the Firstborn, any righteous and just person who hasn’t been resurrected yet, or who hasn’t even come down and got their body yet can officiate in the office of the Holy Ghost.
In the temple when the Father says, “Jehovah go down and tell the man Adam” Jehovah turns and says, “Peter, James, and John go down and tell the man Adam”. Jehovah is in the office of the Son (Father, Son) and Peter, James and John have just been assigned, in the office of the Holy Ghost, to go tell Adam something but it could be your grandfather, it could be your great-grandson who hasn’t even been born yet. These could be ones assigned to you. When Jehovah turns and tells someone (shall tell them who?) Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith assigns the one that is assigned to you, your guardian angel, that guardian angel can come and testify to something you’re reading, or something you’re praying about. He’s coming in the office of the Holy Ghost (to specifically???) but he does not add anything to the words or He doesn’t take anything away. Whatever the Father says, and Whatever the Son says, and whatever Joseph says that is exactly what you end up getting. It is the words of Christ that you’re hearing.
Question: What you are telling me is that the endowment we are watching is personal.
Answer: There you go. If you take everything personal, If you say the earth itself has to go under a big cleansing change now to get ready for the coming of the Lord, they’re not talking about the earth they’re talking about your body. Get it ready. Get it cleansed. It’s going to have to have earthquakes, it’s going to have to have tornadoes in it to get out all the parts. All the earth is a symbol representing what has to happen to your body.
When they say, “I have a mansion in heaven” the mansion in heaven is your body. Where is your spirit going to dwell and live through all eternity? In your body; so renew it. Your whole purpose in coming here was to get a body. Don’t leave it in the grave and go up there and say now what am I going to do? They’re saying you got to go resurrect your body in the grave. How do I do that? It’s a lot harder now then it was while you were still in it. You let the physical part of you stay in control. When it said “I’m hungry” What did you do? You ate. Who does that give power to? The physical part. Who was in control? The physical part. Now you’ve got to go get it back. You’ve got to go raise it up. You’re not going to get a mansion in heaven unless you take it with you there. This is the time to prepare to meet God. That is basically it.
Question: When I am talking personal I am talking Patriarchal, right?
Answer: Right. Let’s go Patriarchal. When Ezra Taft Benson comes into any of your homes he knows who presides when he gets there: The father of the family presides. Doesn’t even matter if they’re Mormon or not, they don’t even have to be Mormon, but they still preside because the father has the first level of the patriarchal Priesthood already sealed on him by God before he even comes here.
That much Patriarchal Priesthood is greater than the highest level in the church. So even the President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator of the Church, when he enters any home, he immediately goes under the direction of the Father because that’s a greater Priesthood. You take that Priesthood, which came from God” and that’s the Priesthood that God has to continue giving you. Remember Abraham said, “Melchizedek ordained me to become ‘a King arid a Priest” but the Lord came and put His hands on my head and sealed me a King and a priest after I was willing to sacrifice Isaac. Then, and only then, did he say now I have a Priesthood.
Question: We are introduced to the Patriarchal order?
Answer: Right. What the sealed portion of the gold plates are, are ramblings about the Patriarchal order. There’s pieces of that that will pertain just to you. Then you get to the Patriarchal level and find someone on the other side of the veil who takes you under their wing, you might say, then they’ll instruct you and slowly guide you so that you gradually become aware of what you need to do on the Patriarchal level. The women have an independent – they have to get their revelation and their inspiration on what their path is and what they need to do because they receive priesthood too. It wasn’t that the men had the Priesthood and the women had nothing. It’s that the women didn’t need to have it because they didn’t have the natural man’s instincts of “me first.”
All my kids would know that if they came up to me and asked for a bite off of my plate I never stuck in their mouth the one I was saving for my last bite. You know what I mean? There is the best part of any steak. The wife will always give that to any kid. They’ll even give the best steak to their husband, won’t they? Naturally, that’s because they already know how to serve others. Men have to learn that so they’re given the Priesthood in order to put a harness on them and make them do it. Make them go home teaching, make them pass out fast offerings. They’ve got it all twisted around here they say, “gee, look at me I’ve got power.” I’m up here passing the sacrament.” All it is, is that this is the only way we can get you to learn to do what the women already know. They don’t need it, they don’t have to do it.
All you get from that point on is further instructions pertaining to what you need to do. When a husband teaches his wife what the Lord or your patriarchal father tells you to teach her. The Lord knows what your wife needs to learn, or what she needs to know about you – that you do care and you do appreciate her. The Lord. will have you tell her that.
When you get home from work, if you have four kids, you go hug all four kids. Some of them are thinking ‘oh geez, here’s dad again. He’s, just going to hug me and I don’t need a hug right now. But there’s one of them that’s going to say, “Oh dad, hug me, little longer, longer. I needed it all day.” The Spirit is going to say, “Go take that one and go sit down and spend a whole hour.” The others don’t care so it doesn’t matter right now. When their time comes, that ‘they’re weepy or something has happened during that day, and you come home that’s when the Spirit says take them aside and spend some time.
When you do it by revelation you fill all their needs. You fill all of their needs. You don’t need Primary. All the church function is for is we are going to teach these fathers, wives, and children what the fathers aren’t teaching them and should’ve been. That’s all it amounts to.
Every time Moses, or anybody, says the Lord wants a nation of Priests, Holy Priests, that’s what he’s talking about. We want the fathers to get their own revelation, get their own instructions and teach their own. When they finally come up to their wife’s level, which is patriarchal, then the wife can get hers. But if the Lord says, “Look, you guys have been together for 20 years now. I’m going to go ahead and start giving your wife all this Patriarchal priesthood authority and she’s going to be in charge of this and this and you just keep coming. What would most men think right then? She’s got more authority than I do. What would most men do? Quit; that’s right. So the Lord says let’s just wait until he actually gets there.
I met Moroni, the brother of Jared, seven different Jaredites, about six or so Nephites, including Moroni, two of the three Nephites that are translated. All of them gave me different things, different things to do with the patriarchal Priesthood and what I need to do just for my family. Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith Sr. came and that was the first time I actually saw the Lord in person and not just in a vision. They ordained me to what they called a probationary Patriarchal Priesthood and then sealed me as a son to Joseph Smith Sr.
I was puzzled then as to why Joseph Smith Sr but since then I’ve found in the ‘Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith’, on page 38 (I think), it’s where Joseph Smith gives his father a patriarchal blessing. In that he actually gives him the keys to stand as Adam on the earth in the last-days. He is Adam to this last dispensation. He will be able to sit at Adam-Ondi-Ahman with of all these Patriarchal sons adopted to him. Everyone on the Patriarchal level will be adopted to him and he’ll sit at Adam-Ondi-Ahman and then turn them all over to the original Adam.
Anyway, at the time, all I knew was that I was assigned, as a son, to Joseph Smith Sr.. Then he gave me by revelation every step I had to do. Basically, everything was how to get me prepared so that I could meet the Lord himself. In a sense, he was functioning on the Holy Ghost level to me and received a lot of instructions through him and other people on the Holy Ghost level and I received instructions from King David, the King David of Israel. He was one of my guardian angels. David Whitmer, the Book of Mormon witness, Brigham Young, John Taylor, two of the translated Nephites, the brother of Jared, and Moroni. All these weren’t all on that same level.
There was a period of time from when I was assigned to him, and the impression I had was I was sealed to him forever. If you talk to anybody that knows Patriarchal stuff they say your Patriarchal father is your father forever but when he released me and introduced me to the Lord he said, ” I’m releasing my sealing to you and now you will be sealed to the Lord.” Then I was sealed as a son to Jesus himself. From that moment on I didn’t have anymore visitations on the Holy Ghost level. There rarely would be a day that He didn’t come but when he didn’t he’d assign someone else to and someone else could that was on His level who is already a joint heir with Him. That would be when I met Abraham, and some of the guys that are on that level. How long was I at that level? 8 months. In that eight. months all He was trying to find out was if He said jump would I jump or would I discuss it and try to find out why I’m jumping?
He was trying to get me to a point when I would stop saying why. I want to know why – kind of thing. The nearest thing I can describe it to is if you take a broken horse, like a cutting horse, when you get that cutting horse to where you can just hang onto the saddle horn and not do anything except pick out which calf it is the horse is not going to say ‘why is it that calf?’, ‘why not that one with the limp?’
The horse doesn’t do any of that though we all do naturally. You point to the calf and then hang onto the saddle horn and the horse does everything. That’s what He wants. That’s when He says a broken heart and a contrite spirit. He’s saying broken So that I can just hold onto the saddle horn and you do whatever I already pointed you to. Don’t keep saying “Well how long do we have to do this?”, “Can I quit after ten jumps?”, ‘Can I jump back and forth ten times and then quit?’ That horse doesn’t ask. He’d do it for four hours if you didn’t pick up the reins again, wouldn’t he? {Yes} OK, that’s what He’s trying to get.
When He gets you to that point then He says I’m going to introduce you to my Father. Which He did. I’d have to say, up until now, that is the best thing that ever happened to me. It was like I am going to go meet Him {the Father}. Jesus is going to introduce me and now and then when ‘really have a special reason maybe I’ll get into another meeting where I can see Him{Father} again. Jesus takes me up and says Father here he is ‘This is my son David in Whom I’m well pleased. He’s yours.’ Then Jesus takes my hand and puts my hand in His Father’s hand and then He leaves. I’m going, ‘whoa, wait a minute here now, what’s the deal?’ The Father seals me to the Father as a literal son.
Question: The Father seals you to the Father? Who is the first Father?
Answer: It is Jesus’s Father. He actually sealed me to Himself first and then He introduced me to my Father.
Question: The second Father is your spiritual Father?
Answer: Right. You come out of your spiritual Mother as a set of twins a male and a female. The male happens to come out first but it doesn’t have anything to do with who is better than the other.
{Question: Were we created spiritually by sexual intercourse?
Answer: That is true. You are born as a male and a female at the same time. It just happens that the male comes out first and he holds the hand of the female When you come out and now you are twins. A brother and a sister as full twins. He introduced me to my Father and told me what His name was. Theoretically, there are no names on the other side of the veil you’re only known by your title of whatever office you’re working in right now. So if they call someone Samuel that means whatever the office of Samuel is – that’s What they’re doing right now. Adam is a title. Even though they had the title of Adam when they came down here each one of them had separate offices in the councilor the quorum of the 13 Adam’s. Technically there were 144, 000 of them. Jesus’ Father is the spokesman for the 144, 000 fathers. They don’t say fathers and mothers because when you say father you’re talking about both your Father and Mother. The title father includes both.
Question: The title father means parent?)
Answer: Right. Eloheim is technically feminine. That’s because most of the Eloheim that visits and talks to people like Abraham if it’s in a feminine form he says Eloheim which is the feminine form of it. Or he will say Father if they’re both there. You can meet just the Father without the Mother but if you meet the Mother it is the same thing as if you’re meeting them both. They’re both one.
Anyway, He introduced me to my Father who told me His name was Seth. From then on all I’ve dealt with is Seth. I can get daily instructions from Him. I can ask for something specific and get that from Him or He’ll just come daily and see how I’m doing and what’s happening and tell me here’s what you need to work on and things like that. I rarely get anymore visitors on any of the other levels but I can have a visitor of anyone of the 144, 000 fathers and it’s the same as if Seth himself came. Jesus’s Father is the spokesman for that group but they’re all exactly the same. Whichever one He assigns to do something it’s the same as if He were doing it.
Jesus is the spokesman on this next level, or generation. All those that become joint heirs with Him (and Jesus says, “My sheep hear my voice, my sheep will follow me, my sheep are numbered, and my Father hath promised that I’ll not lose one.” What Jesus is talking about is the 144, 000 that are going to be on His level. There are multiple mortalities. If they came down and rode around on their motorcycle and didn’t do what they were supposed to they might have to do it again. I don’t want to open up a whole can of worms on that either. You have to have a real good reason to do anything but everything is done for a good reason. Jesus’ sheep He’s looking for are the 144, 000 which means the first born spiritual son of each Father. We can play all kinds of numbers games. I’ll go with you through a numbers game.
You take Jesus’s father who He says, “This is my Father. I have done nothing but what I’ve seen my Father do and I have said nothing but what I’ve heard my Father say.” There are 144, 000 of them on that level. Jesus is now the spokesman for 144, 000 which happens to be the first born son of each one of the fathers. Each of the fathers had 144, 000 sons.
Why is He interested in finding His firstborn? So that He can get His Firstborn busy finding the rest of them. Why is He looking for the first born – what is the Church of the Firstborn? Every birth has two, a male and a female. Which is the male? The first born. That’s what they’re talking about. Ephriam wasn’t the first born, Jacob wasn’t the first born, Isaac wasn’t the first born, you can go on and on. Abraham wasn’t the first born, Heron was older than him. Nobody was the first born but how come they’re all in the Church of the Firstborn? Because they were born to their spiritual Father first, before their sister was, is basically all it means. If I don’t do what I’m supposed to as my Father’s firstborn He can take anyone of the other 144, 000 of His sons and seal him into the same position. He doesn’t take any of my free agency away because I can say, “no, I am not interested.”
Here is the one mighty and strong; Everybody is looking for one mighty and strong. Anyone of the 144, 000 Fathers are one mighty and strong. Anyone of their sons are one mighty and strong. Anyone that does and uses any of the power that they have is the one mighty and strong. Now if anyone claims to be the one mighty and strong, all I can tell you is, he isn’t. If he was the one mighty and strong he would never say it. If he says it this is what he is saying to all the rest on his level, “I’m better than you, and I’m higher than you.” That’s really what he’s doing so he would never do that because he knows that he is only one of 144, 000.
Therefore, they can say are you one mighty and strong? and he won’t say. If he does say it, it means that somewhere he got a revelation that says you can be one of the one mighty and strong. In other words, we are going to bring you up to this level but before he gets there he starts claiming it. He starts saying, “I jumped to a conclusion on what someone said way back here and that’s why I know I’m the one mighty and strong.” All that means is, “I don’t understand what I am saying.” Everyone Who does, knows he doesn’t, because he didn’t finish his ordination, he didn’t go on. Therefore he’s out claiming all this but he isn’t.
Question: Does that happen?
Answer, Yes, there are at least three in the valley, right now, all claiming it. They’ve all short circuited their own progress.
Question: If someone wanted to get on the straight and narrow and get started, how would you advise them?
Answer: Just do what God tells you to.
Question: With the strife that’s going on in the Church right now (incomplete)?
Answer: Stay in until God tells you to leave. What I’m trying to say is don’t do anything until God talks to you personally and if God is not talking to you personally then do whatever it takes to get him to. I can already tell you He already can talk to you. It’s that, you’re not in tune yet or you’re not ready yet. Get ready. Say, “What do I need to do? Take away from me everything that’s keeping me from you. That’s a real dangerous one to write. I guarantee He’ll do that. In other words, what is there about me that’s keeping me from coming to you? He’ll say are you willing to give it up then?
Most of them it is, a picture of a guy hanging on a cliff, hanging onto this branch, and he’s saying Lord save me. I don’t know what’s down there but it is a swirling mist and I don’t want to fall into it so please save me. The Lord says, “OK, I’ll save you, let go”. After a few years of pleading this is how he changes his plea, “Lord, please ‘save me and this branch.” The Lord says, “I can’t save the branch, just let go.” Then he says, “Please save me and the branch and get me up there we’re safe and then I’ll let go of Whatever it is, the church, my job, my house, my wife.”
When I started this I had a good job in the church, I had a good wife, good children, good income, good house, good everything and I lost every bit of it. ‘Not one thing did I end up with. I ended up giving it all to the Lord. Now, He has given me back, my wife followed me to Arizona. I said, “What do I do now? God said, “Go get a carpenter job and feed them.” Why do I have to feed them I gave them to you; they’re yours. God said, “Yes, but you said you would feed whoever I told you to feed, you would clothe anybody I told you to, any of my children.” I said, “Yes.” God said, “Here are my children. Feed them.” I said, “I’ll feed any of yours but these were mine, I gave them up.” He says, “I know you did and now they are mine. Now I am telling you to feed them.”
I went and got a carpenter job and started feeding them. Then we moved back to Utah and then I moved up to Washington and they stayed here. As soon as they found out where I was here they came again. He says, “Go get a carpenter job and feed them.” I said, “Are they going to follow me everywhere?” God said, “That is their choice but if they choose to, you get to feed them. So get feeding them.” I said, “You want me to go get a job?” God said, “What’s wrong with being a carpenter?” Nothing.
Another time, I thought I was being sanctified and I had this big sliver go through my thumb. How can that happen to me? I tried and tried to pull it out but it had broken off and wedged back against the bone. I had pulled it with pliers until I’d nearly pass out. Well, I had better go to the doctor. I am sitting in the doctor’s and they gave me a shot and then he slices it open and pulls this big thing out and then he leaves. I am thinking how could this happen to me? I mean me of all people. I see this hand come through the veil and it has this big (nail) mark in it. God said, “Look what happened to me.” ‘ I said, “Oh well, mines not that big.” God says, “You wanted to know how that could happen, just be more careful.” I said, “You had slivers when you were a carpenter? and He said, “Yes.” God said, “Stop Whining about it, see mine?” He (God) brings me up short all the time.
I literally had to go through a lot of things to get rid of greed, get rid of pride, and get rid of ego (my wife helped me with this also.
Question: Was any more said about when the First presidency wouldn’t let you read David Whitmer’s blessing?
(first cousin fifth removed his ‘grandfather is my fifth great grandfather) Answer: He came to me because I was the only one in the whole family (he said) that was on the path and willing to continue on the path. He said what was in the blessing was that he, David Whitmer, had been given all of the keys for the gathering of Israel in Jackson county for the building up of the temple. As the Lamanites came with all their materials to build the temple he would just coordinate things with Ephraim and any whites that wanted to help.
He wasn’t in charge. No one has the authority to tell the Lamanites what it is they’ll be doing and when and trying to organize them. He is to coordinate anyone else’s efforts with what the Lamanites were doing. He was given all the keys – that’s why he was the president of the stake of the New Zion in Jackson county. When the church left Jackson ‘county he Just moved across the river and stayed right there until he died because he was waiting for people to come back. His mission didn’t have to do with anything but the New Jerusalem.
Question: What about the spiritual partner that was created at the same time?
Answer: I’ve seen where even a guy in the stake presidency runs into his spiritual sister twin. He had such a marvelous spiritual experience just being in her presence that he just knew he had to some way be sealed to her. He ends up having an affair with her and getting excommunicated and he can’t understand why. I said because you were having an affair with your spiritual sister, your twin, and it wasn’t meant that you have an affair just happened to run into her. She is sealed to someone else. It doesn’t mean that when you get next to them you won’t know. You will know that here is someone special. It might not be your exact twin sister, it might be the your next brother and sister. But it might be the same spiritual Father and the same spiritual Mother. You’re going to have a real close tie there. You will run into people that you know is your brother.
Abraham’s promise, the church’s view is that everyone that is the literal seed of Abraham is going to be blessed, going to be holy people, and they are going to benefit the rest of the population. What it really meant was that ‘anyone of his seed, which could mean you, that finds out who he really is – that the I AM in him is the key to everything and let’s the I AM in him take over and control everything. In other words, as he develops into a God he becomes what it is HE AM. He begins to be what Jesus began to be, the Son of God that He was.
Question: Did you notice that when it started happening to you?
Answer: Yea, but my father Joseph, and a lot of them would take me to a scripture and have me read it and I would say ‘No, that’s not what that scripture means. Oh, that’s what that scripture means and then it started to dawn on me.. Anyone of his seed who realizes and develops into a complete being like Jesus did now will bless all the population of the earth and they’re the elect. That’s all it’s saying. If you happen to be from someone who wasn’t Abraham you can be adopted in and it’s exactly the same as if you were anyway.
Even if you run into someone who is a direct descendent of Joseph smith, or David Whitmer, or Parley P. Pratt it isn’t any different than if you just get adopted in anyway. There’s no difference. All it means is, in other words, if I were a literal descendent of Joseph Smith and now Joseph was now going to pass me onto the Lord it would be harder. Another key is going to women. If you took just 10, 000 women in this valley and said meet the Lord .Jesus Christ and they met Him and they felt the love that He had for them and He put His arm around each one of them. Every cell in their body would just be in ecstasy, I guarantee you. And Jesus said, “Come and I’ll seal you mine.” These women, out of the 10,000, I would really be surprised if even one of them said, “Let me go call my husband and tell him I not be coming back.” They’re going to go with who they find that they know can take them all the way to the celestial kingdom. That’s why a lot of women would try to get sealed to Joseph Smith in the temple after he was dead. After Brigham Young died hundreds went down and got themselves sealed.
The men stopped doing that because they didn’t want their wife, after they were dead, to run and get sealed to somebody else that they knew had a better chance. Technically, all Joseph has to say is, yes I accept you or. Jesus to say, yes I accept you. It doesn’t do any good to center on your wife and say I’m going to try to save you with me because if you don’t make it and she gets a chance she’s gone anyway because she is already qualifying and you’re not.
I’ve had men say, Heber C. Kimball says I’ll do anything you want Lord except I don’t want to lose my wife, Vilate. It’s right in his journal. So what does the first revelation that comes through Joseph say? It says, go tell your son Heber he is supposed to bring Vilate over and give to you as one of your plural wives. He tells Heber. Heber goes three days, can’t sleep, can’t eat, anything. Vilate saying what’s the matter? She goes and prays and an angel tells her that he’s being tested from God and he’s supposed to do it. She goes right out and grabs him and says, you do, whatever it is; you do it.
So he marches over to Joseph’s house in Nauvoo and his tracks look just like two skis because he dragged his feet. When he gets over there he knocks on the door and Joseph comes and he takes Joseph’s hand and Vilate’s and puts them together. Joseph let’s go of Vilate and hugs Heber, tears running down his face. They are hugging for 15, 20 minutes. Then he takes them in the parlor and seals them by the Holy Spirit of Promise; he seals them for all eternity. Now what did he have in order to get her for all eternity.
He had to give her up. But he only had to give her up because she was the only thing he wouldn’t do for the Lord. Just tell the Lord I’ll go on a mission for you as long as it’s not cold and let’s just see what happens. You’ll end up where you need lots of long johns. My dad did that and he still can’t understand why he was in Winnepeg Canada when he asked for someplace warm. It’s because the Lord can’t find out if you will serve Him doing what it is you want to do. He is trying to find out if you will do all things whatsoever He commands you. All. So if He can find something that you might not do that’s the first thing He will ask you to see if you will do it. As soon as He realizes, that it doesn’t matter what I ask, this guy he is going to do it.
Justification is when you reach a point that the Holy Ghost, the guardian angel that is in that office for you, will take you before Joseph Smith and the Lord, put his left hand on you and put his right arm to the square and say, “I justify everything this man has done.” That’s all justification is. When the Holy Ghost will do that, that’s when he will turn you over to the Lord. That’s when you get your second endowment, that’s when you get your calling and election made sure. That’s justification, that’s all it is when he’ll justify everything you have done, meaning – The Spirit told me and I did it.
When Nephi killed Laban he was justified. If you say, “No, I won’t kill anyone.” You can make the list anything you want that says this is what won’t do. You have a guardian angel writing it down. I can guarantee you that it is on your list of what to do because that’s the only way they can test you.
Question: What about the earthly ordinances, Holy of Holies, second anointing, washing of the feet. Baptism is a requirement to enter the celestial Kingdom, is it a symbolic baptism?
Answer: It is symbolic. What the baptism of water really means is you need to be washed, and completely immersed in the love of God. When that’s happened to you, you come out pure as you think you are when you come out of the baptism, you’ve been completely immersed in water. That just represents the love of God that you have to be completely immersed in. When you’re immersed in the love of God you have no anger or hatred in you. Every cell in your body is filled with the love of God. That’s what has to happen to you so the baptism of water is just a symbol of.
Joseph Smith said if you don’t get that love in every cell of your body you might just as well be baptized in bags of sand. You can do that in the temple too if the people don’t get immersed in the love of God. Now the baptism of fire, and the Holy Ghost, is being baptized with the Light of Christ. Every cell in your body has to be in the control of the Light of Christ, or the I AM that’s in you shining forth with its glory. When that happens, the more light you get the less clothes you have to wear.
All the garments represent is the light that you used to have. When you can turn that light on you don’t need the garments anymore. The garments aren’t there to protect you they’re just there to remind you that there’s something you still need to get, you need to get clothed in the Light of Christ.
Question: everything is a symbol, right?
Answer: The temple is a temple made by hands representing the Temple of God that’s made without hands, which is your body.
Question: The question I had was specific to the Holy of Holies, is that a necessary ordinance?
Answer: No, none of the outward ordinances are; they’re just representative of what you have to go do. They’re all the Aaronic level. When someone doesn’t do what God wants them to do, personally, then He gives them something to do just to keep them busy.
If you’re not going to sanctify everything you eat then let’s at least sanctify something so that you’ll think it’s sacred, the sacrament. We’ll sanctify this little piece of bread and this little cup of water seeing that you are not going to do it to everything else you eat. If you are not going to live the one law of loving God, then let’s break it, that’s what Moses did, he broke it, ground it up, mixed it with water and made them all drink it so they would all be taken it upon themselves, their own curse. Then he comes back with the lessor law which has Ten Commandments but the people keep getting worse and worse.
The worse the people become the more rules you end up with. If you go down to the prison and you are really a bad guy, they will let you know when you wake up, when you go to sleep, how you dress, when you eat, and everything in your life is controlled. That is no different than the Jews became when Jesus .was in Jerusalem when he was growing up.
They went from 1 to 10, and from 10 to 300,000 commandments when Jesus was born. These commandments told them how to bake their bread, how to grind their wheat, how to sacrifice animals, how to butcher animals, how to prepare the meat, how far to walk, who they had to help, who they didn’t have to help, what they had to pay, every 7 years they do this, and every 50 years you have this, and every feast. If your wife was on her period and she sits on the bed and you sit down on the bed then you had to go through seven days of purification.
On and on – 300, 000 commandments. Which gives you an idea how far you can go if the people say, “We want to know what to do.” He will keep giving them things to do. He even started the Word of Wisdom stating this is not by way of commandment yet they wanted it as a commandment.
Question: Is this what the Church is doing with us now?
Answer: Exactly.
Question: Is it because we are so rotten?
Answer: No. It is because the role of the church changed, I don’t know what section it’s in, but it’s where it says, “the whole church is now under condemnation” and in that same scripture it will say something about, “but not the individual”.
In other words, the church is under condemnation. It can’t save you from now on; it’s no longer even going to get the ordinances that can save you but individually you can come to Me and come on up. That’s all that scripture was trying to say and from that point on there’s nothing in the church that can save you. That was clear back in 1843 or 1844.
Question: Are you talking about the Manifesto?
Answer: Even polygamy is not going to save you. Polygamy is not a Celestial law it is Telestial. The Celestial level of the Patriarchal Order of Marriage or the Plurality of Wives means that until you blossom in your Patriarchal Priesthood you are viewed by the Gods as being female, meaning you have no Priesthood, which (being) female means you don’t even need to have Priesthood.
When my wife and I get sealed to become a King and a Priest, and Queen and Priestess, we get sealed and now we make a covenant with Jesus. There is no place in the scriptures that I’ve found yet, there might be, but whenever they refer to a bridegroom they’re always talking about one person – Jesus. If Jesus is the bridegroom, who are we? We are the bride. If I’m a bride and my wife is a bride and the two of us covenant with Jesus and we obey our husband in righteousness.
I’ve never run into a wife in this valley yet that can actually say her husband is righteous, and everything he has asked me to do is righteous, therefore, I obey him. There’s some that don’t understand that and they might think they are.
The first covenant I make in the temple is obedience to Him. The first covenant she makes is obedience to her husband. On a lesser level she assumes that’s me. On the Celestial level it’s Christ, He is still the Bridegroom. If she obeys. Him and I obey Him what’s Jesus going to do? Bring us closer and closer. You draw near to Me and I draw near to you.
How as I become one with Him and she becomes one with Him and we become one with each other, what happens? Now the Holy spirit of Promise seals us but only when we get to that point.
Now you can say the Godhead is a triangle pointing down, and you and your wife and Jesus are the triangle pointing up and as the two become one there is the star of David.’ The star of David is just for Israel meaning in God’s reality you have become real to Him, you’ve blossomed into what it is you are – same as a mustard seed blossoms into what it is.
If you have the faith, as a grain of mustard seed, you become what you are like it will become like it is and that’s all you have to do. I become that and I become a star of David meaning I am one with God therefore I am real to Him and that’s Israel. So I’ve become Israel. Israel is not a tribe or a group of people it is whoever does that. That’s how they become Israel, Israelites.
The star of David is my symbol, my wife and I are one with Jesus and we can go on now into the Patriarchal Order – plurality of Wives – How many wives does Jesus end up with when you do it that way? A bunch. That is the Patriarchal Order of Marriage and Plurality of Wives. That’s God’s program.
Let’s find out who else has a program out. Satan has a program that goes like this; if were not going to make this covenant with God then let’s, at least, we’ll put the man in the position of the Lord and we’ll tell the woman that you have to obey him. He can have other women but they all have to obey him. He is their lord and master. As they all obey him, and all their children obey him.
If you’ve ever known any polygamy groups ask yourself how many of the children or wives have any free agency? Any free agency at all? Dress like they want? Play when they want? See what I’m saying? They take away all their free agency. In other words, Satan’s plan is to save all of you but you have to be sealed to me, and you have to do everything I tell you, and then I’ll save you. Otherwise you’ll be cast into hellfire and damnation.
That’s his plan. As I am their lord and master, let’s say another guy shows up and says, “I like what you’re doing with your family. What I really like is how you have seven wives and forty kids. I want the same thing.” The new guy can’t do it by going to God and finding out what he is supposed to do because the original guy already knows.
The original guy says, “I’ll make you my patriarchal son and now you are my lieutenant. Now I’ll tell you who you can marry, and what to do with them.
It is still Satan I s plan and now, he has lieutenants. What happens to the whole group? This is how it comes from our Father’s perspective. If I am in charge of one of these groups I go to Father and say all of these people are sealed to me, I claim them all. If you accept me you can have them all. That is exactly what Satan is going to do at the very last of the Judgment Bar. He is going to say, “All these are mine. I’ve sealed them all to me. I’m their father.”
There is going to be a lot of people there that are going to be real surprised that they are even in that group. Then Satan will say, “If you accept me you can have them all.” That is Satan’s plan.
What does Jesus say, “They, are all yours. This is my Father’s glory. I will pass them on.
Develop your own relationship. Find out yourself what ‘you are supposed to be doing.” One has free agency and the other doesn’t. That is the Patriarchal order and the Plurality of Wives. I never ran into a polygamist yet that even understood it yet they can see it. I like to talk to a polygamist with at least two of his wives there. You might be able to keep a secret with one of the wives, you can bribe her enough that she won’t tell, but you get two of the wives in there and there’s no way you’re going to keep it secret from the whole rest of the group.
I’ll take the man, step by step, right down through the process of. His intention, as he meets with me, is that I’m going to teach Bro. Whitmer that he has to live polygamy or he can’t go to the Celestial kingdom. I ask, “Why are you living polygamy?” Because of Joseph Smith was and then he quotes D&C 132. Harvey Allred has this ‘Leaf in Review’ which is merely all their arguments right in there. There is a lot of pamphlets that they give out. I haven’t ran into any new arguments yet but the argument is that Joseph Smith was commanded and unless you live that you’re not going to go to the Celestial Kingdom.
Do you know what “Simon says” means as compared to , “Father may I?” If the Father initiates, it and it comes down thru the Son and to the Holy Ghost and to you, this is “Simon says”. In other words, to play the game you have to do everything that Simon says, but unless it’s “Simon says” you can’t do it.
In D&C 132 it says Abraham did all things whatsoever he did by commandment, and by My word, by revelation. (D&C 132:37) And Abraham, and also Isaac and Jacob did none other thing than that which they were commanded. Therefore, they sit upon thrones and are Gods, not angels. The key there is you do everything that Simon says and don’t do anything that isn’t Simon says.
Now concerning “Father may I” – the best example is D&C 132:1 “Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as ye have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob … had many wives and concubines, I’ll tell you.” That is not ‘Simon says’. Inasmuch as you were asking, in as much as you were trying to find out. Why was he trying to find out? Why would the Lord think you would be asking why all these guys get polygamist wives? That is want he wants, so it isn’t Simon says. Even if God tells you do to something you’re still OK if you do it.
The polygamists say God told Joseph to live it so therefore I’m living it. Then I say, “Show me your ark.” They’ll go, what? Show me your ark. God told Noah to build an ark, show me yours. I don’t have one. Why not? God didn’t tell me to build one. I said, “Then why are you living polygamy? God hasn’t told you to. I’m not going to buy the argument unless you show me your ark because I can prove to you that God told Noah to build an ark. Just go out and start it. Put a couple of 2X4’s together and say here it is. Then you have to do everything. Get your first-born son ready to be sacrificed. You can go on and on with, “because God said it to somebody I have to do it.” If God tells me, “Simon says”, I do it.
The polygamists get down to I fasted and prayed for a year and a half before I finally got the Lord to tell me I could do it. That’s ‘Father May I’ isn’t? After a year and a half he told you to go ahead but why did you pray for a year and a half to live it? I could tell what was ‘in his heart anyway, but right from his heart comes this, “I wanted to see what it was like to live with more than one wife and have sex with more than one wife.” That’s the bottom line right there.
His two wives sat there with their mouths open. They looked at each other and said that’s not what he told us. He was saying that he had to or God would cut him off. Today they are not married anymore. He and his seven wives are all divorced because they found out real fast. The women say, “We’re out here doing all he wants us to do in his program.” And he isn’t using the Father’s program he is using Satan’s.
It is easy to show that it’s Satan’s program. You show me a father that exercises unrighteous dominion which is just merely putting the child in a position where they don’t have free agency. How easy is that to do? You either do this or else. You either go on a mission or I’m not going to pay for your college. Any “’this or”, is taking away free agency and when they do that, amen to the priesthood of that brother.
Take any fourteen year old kid, and it can be a girl or a guy, and unless they are really brow-beaten and have no concept of what free agency is, they can recognize in their father, or any other man, whether they have authority or not. A fourteen year old… think about it. You can be over at church and He can look you right in the eye and he knows you’re a phony. You have exercised unrighteous dominion on your own kids or even on him. They can see it in your eyes, that you’re hollow, you’re sounding like brass, you’re a whitened sepulcher.
They understand this but they don’t know why. They’ve gone through a seven-year cycle of being trained and they are baptized at eight. Then they go through a seven-year cycle of experimenting, trying things, and seeing how the consequence is. Put your hand on the stove and it gets burned. Now grab that kid by the hand and try to put it on the stove, he’ll pull back because he knows. but people still say keep kids away from the stove because they will get burned, no, that’s the best thing for them.
If they get burned once there’s no way on earth you can get them to again. Let them taste the evil whereby they know to prize the good. In other words, let them, with their free agency, taste. Taste the sweet, taste the bitter, taste the sweet, taste the bitter. They’ll come back but it will be with their free agency.
Now you use Satan’s plan, “I am going to save all my kids.” They’re all going.to have to go to church, they’re all going to have to do this. But you take any fourteen year old and he can recognize authority. I’ll put this to you: If all your kids were wandering around downtown and Jesus came and sat in the park and started reading, telling them parables, and your kids got just within earshot, they would recognize and say, “Here’s someone who isn’t a phony.” They would recognize the authority so fast; first the children and then the women. Here’s somebody with something that my husband doesn’t have.
They recognize it without even knowing what they’re recognizing. They would be right there listening. When you become like Him and you start telling them they will recognize it too. Men, today, are drowning, and they’re trying to save everyone else from drowning and they’re doing it by trying to climb up on top of the others and saying, “I am in charge, I am the head.”
There are only two plans; one of them has free agency. Wouldn’t you rather have free agency? They have a quote in a newspaper that Joseph Smith said, “No one will ever be excommunicated from this church by differing in doctrine with me.” Brigham Young said the same thing too.
(After we started breaking up the meeting some good questions were raised. Most of what is left is harder to hear but I will give you all the pieces, whether or not they make sense or are complete.)
As to what I will be willing to do for you. In other words, until now I’ve been afraid that if I say, “Lord, if turn my life over to you you’re going to have me down in Guatemala preaching on a corner and my wife and kids will wonder where I’m at.” Really, that’s what you think about it because as soon as it becomes Simon says, you don’t get to choose. You are saying, “Right now I am choosing.” Then we’ll test you, here goes! And you’re gone. You don’t say how long. You become the horse. Now He can use you for what He wants but until you get your own information (incomplete).
Your danger is finding an answer from someone else and then start following someone else. That guy can call you to the gutter real fast. Satan’s helper will say, “the first thing the Lord wants you to do is take out your check books and whatever your balance is write a check for that amount and put my name on it. Then I want you to sell your homes and give me that money and the Lord is going to bless you.” That is the first thing that can happen because he (Satan’s helper) has to start a whole group.
The guy (the helper) is going to put himself in place of the Lord, who is resurrected and already here, but you guys all look at me, ask me, give me your money. That’s the thing that I will never do because I don’t want all you guys to be my servants.
When you get your calling and election you have to pay for your own sins. I would end up in the Celestial Kingdom and say, “I claim all these. They didn’t do what they were supposed to because I stopped their , progress but now I want him to wait on me, and I want him to take care of my yard, see what I mean? Every time you bring me my plate of food you will slap it down there like saying, “You turkey, look what you did to me;”
Question: How do we not be deceived from the angel of light?
Answer: (Big sigh) How to take the Holy Spirit for your guide and be not deceived? That means that you can be deceived by the spirit but how can you be deceived? If I have the Patriarchal Priesthood and tell my guardian angel, “Go tell his guardian angel that if he reads this testimony, that it’s true.” Now you go pray and as you are asking, “Is this true?” what is your guardian angel going to say? “Yes. ” Then you say, “I want to be specific, Who told you to tell me that this is true?'” “The Father.” All patriarchs are the father, so he: says “the Father”. Now what do you assume?
That his Heavenly Father told him to say that. That’s how easy it is to be deceived. All he can testify to is truth. So if I write something and it is true and I hand it to you and you read it and ask (if it is true) and I say, “Tell him it’s true.” Is he telling the truth? Yes. And if you say, “Who told you?” and his answer is “The: Father.” Is he telling the truth? Yes. There are people that can do that. Find out (where the answers are coming from) when you start getting answers. When you say, “I need to know.”
It took me fifteen years to get my first answers and in the last eight years I’ve had 10,000 answers. You can’t get into as much trouble for not doing as you can for trying. Even if you’re trying you’re saying, “If I put my hand on this stove will it burn me?” Let’s say an evil spirit says no. Put your hand on the stove and jerk it back and say, “Gee, here I trusted you and you told me it wouldn’t. Why did you tell me that?” Eventually you’re going to find out, “Who told you to tell me to put it on the stove?” Did this come from who? who?, who?, and find out where it originated. You will find out that Satan is in there.
What I use as my key is: “Jesus is the Christ and the only way to the Father.” (answer should be yes) Evil spirits will admit that Jesus is the Christ but they won’t ever say He is the only way to the Father.
Then I would say, “Is the Book of Mormon a second witness of Christ who is the only way to the Father.” (answer should be yes) Then “Does Joseph Smith hold all the keys to the last dispensation” (answer should be yes) I get those three answers then I ask the question again, “lf I put my hand on this stove will it burn me?” Answer is yes. Ahhhh, it’s a little different. It’s a different answer of ‘yes’ than the other three yeses. I go back and ask the three questions again and then I ask, “Should I put my hand on the stove?” Yes. Ahah, get thee hence Satan. I find out that the spirit that was trying to tell me to put my hand on the stove was the evil spirit-and so I’d say, “Ahah.”
Whenever somebody says something I’d say, “Oh, well what’s the answer?” “Yes.” “Is Jesus the Christ and the only way to the Father?” No answer. “Get thee hence, Satan.” You have (emphasis) to learn how to find out where it is coming from.
You can get a lot of tangents, you get off the razor’s edge. If you want to find keys of finding out if things are from your Heavenly Father or not. Your Heavenly Father is always going to be this nature of answers: You’re my son, I’m well pleased, I forgive all yours sins. When you read from the D&C and you read any of that stuff you know that it is right from the Father.
Question: Does He ever ask you a question? You ask a question and he will throw one back.
Answer: Yes. Like, why do you want to know? or why do you do this? Here is the Father’s program so you can use it as a guide to see how but first you have to believe what I am telling you about it but you can test that. The Father’s program is this; My son Keith, if you plant corn I’ll cause it to grow. If you plant weeds I’ll cause weeds to grow but you are going to have to eat whatever one you plant. In other words, you plant hatred, you plant love, you plant forgiveness, whatever you plant I’ll cause to grow and you’ll end up eating it. That’s the only law of God there is. What you sow, you reap. There is no other law.
Mark E. Peterson and a lot of them say there are a lot of laws. Ellie Scaron(?) there’s only one law and then she says here’s a law, and that there’s a law irrevocably decreed in heaven for every blessing. That means a lot of laws. No, what it means is; whatever you plant that’s what you get. That’s the only law there is. ‘The Father is going to say, “What it is you want, plant. I can cause it to grow but whatever it is, you have to eat it.” Basically that’s all He is going to say. He’ll say, “If you do this, this is what you’ll get, if you do this this is what you get.” But He will never tell you which one to choose. He wants you to test it and find out. Now Satan will step in and give you a revelation and his revelations are: You either do this or I turn you over to the buffetings of Satan.
Now, take those two keys and go read the D&C and find out. Take a highlighter, a yellow one and a pink one. If you can tell that’s coming from the Father – if it’s love, forgiveness, and it deals with the law of the harvest – do it yellow. When you run onto something saying, “You either do this-or else.” Start doing pink. You can be right in mid-sentence when all of a sudden it will switch· back.
When Joseph is receiving a revelation in the D&C and the revelation is coming to Him from the Father, and the Holy Ghost is there saying repeat (?) and Joseph’s mind – here’s the scripture, my favorite one, “Be still and know that I am God.” Be still means stop thinking, your natural man mind must stop, it’s an enemy to God, has been from the beginning, so stop thinking. In other words, be still and know, know that what I am telling you is coming from me. Don’t get off the razor’s edge, one way or the other, just stay right here, know.
Now God only has one time and that is now so knowing means you are in the now state. So as the revelations come in and Joseph is thinking “Oh”, and starts thinking a tangent, the Lord stops talking and Satan steps right in. I mean, before you can blink your eye, and Satan finishes the sentence and now it switches over to “You either do this or else.” As soon as Joseph’s mind stops thinking the Lord’s takes over. He doesn’t go back and redo what Satan just did, He lets you go.
When I first found this out I said, “I’m going to go through and straighten all these out. Take out all of Satan’s out and put in what was actually supposed to be because I could see the revelation coming that Joseph got and I could see right where Joseph had started thinking and how Satan now puts his little piece in there and then the Lord, then Satan. I was thinking I am going to edit this and I was into it about two months and I get “Who told you to do this?” Uhhhhh, I wanted to. I knew that I was in trouble. “Why did you want to do this?” I wanted all these people out here in the valley to see where you can get deceived by the Spirit. “How did you find out?” By the Spirit. “Why don’t you let them find out like you did? So they’ll have a testimony of the Spirit instead of a testimony of you.” That’s pretty good and I haven’t done anything with it since.
Question: When you first started this day you pointed out to us that there was a gentleman that taught you a beginning. There has always got to be someone, somewhere along the way that teaches the beginning.
Answer: Find out if he’ll claim that Jesus is the only way to the Father. Satan claims he’s a way to the Father. If he can get a 99.999% of everybody what does the Father have to do sure I’ll accept you, come on back. You will find that I will never tell you anything that you can’t eventually go find out yourself. If anyone wants help from me I’ll help hold them under water until they reach the point they say, “Lord, save me.” Or if they are hanging on the cliff I’ll just grab them and chuck them off.
To me there is no love in prolonging their misery. I’d rather just chuck you over the cliff and you either say, “Lord, save me, completely.” Turn your whole life over to God because you know you are going to lose it all anyway, rather than help you back up and say let’s get started again because then you end up with crutches and hobble along.
I had a guy in one of the last meetings ask me, “Where do you think we’re at right now here in the valley?” I said you are all decorating and repainting your deck chairs on the Titanic. You think you have to get everything in order but it is all going down and it isn’t going to matter what color it is.
Nov. 1, 1942 – Nov. 18, 2014
Sandy, Utah-David A. Whitmer, 72, of St. George, UT, passed away surrounded by love on Nov. 18, 2014.
David was preceded in death by two children, survived by two former wives, nine children and many loving grandchildren, great grandchildren, and brothers. David was a fun loving father, grandfather and friend.
David loved homing pigeons, horses, music, and practical jokes. He also enjoyed movies and reading. He made a good career out of building homes and being creative. He had a great sense of humor and loved making people laugh. He could tell fun stories for hours and enjoyed entertaining people. He will be deeply missed and loved always.
A memorial will be on Saturday, November 22, from 6:00 to 8:00 PM at Starks Funeral Parlor, 3651 South 900 East, Salt Lake City.
Published in Salt Lake Tribune on Nov. 20, 2014
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