Category: Gatherings

Stealing Glory

2021 Gathering, Part Twenty-Four

There was no instance where Jesus took glory to himself. It’s interesting that when he visited his hometown and stood before them, and he said, “I know what you’re going to ask. You’re going to want me to do miracles like I did in other towns. And you’re going to ask me, you’re going to say, ‘physician, heal thyself.’”

Now why would you say that to them? Is it possible that Jesus had something physically wrong with him, that he could not heal himself? I always wondered about that particular scripture because if he did have something wrong with him and he never did anything for self, he would not have healed himself. Perhaps somebody else would have had to assisted him if there was anything physically wrong with him.

So I’ve always wondered about that scripture. It’s kind of a mysterious one. Why would he have quoted that phrase “physician, heal thyself.” Why would Jesus have to heal himself? But the physician, the spiritual physician cannot heal himself with the power of the lower self. He can take care of his body . . . and speaking of the body, Phil said something interesting that when there’s a miracle . . . a miracle that happens . . . there’s a lot going on that we don’t understand – the technology that goes on behind it, and if you don’t understand it, then you’re not responsible for it.

The same thing with our body. You look at all the great things that are going on in our bodies. Every cell in our bodies has tremendous intelligence operating within it. Just look at everything your liver does, your kidneys, and your heart is just an amazing instrument that just pumps that blood for 24 hours a day. Never rests. How does it do that? It doesn’t do it because of any intelligence we have, or anything we’re consciously doing. It’s all happening through miraculous means that is beyond our ability to completely understand.

So we can’t really take glory for anything going on in our body. All we can do is just give our body that good nutrients it needs so it can take care of itself. So yeah, you can’t . . . people can’t take glory to themselves. And it’s interesting that even Jehovah, as advanced a being as he is . . . because people think if you’re a very advanced being, you don’t care who gets the glory or whatever, but He did.

He cared about getting the glory because that was the principle not only for himself but for Moses. He needed to teach Moses the principle of glory because avoiding or violating the principle of glory puts the disciple in danger of taking the dark path. You have two paths you can take the paths of darkness and the path of light.

And when you take the wrong path, your soul will come to you and try to guide you back. With most people, they go through a number of lifetimes making a lot of mistakes, and they go through enough pain that eventually they think, “well, maybe I better retrace some steps,” and they go back and they enter back into the correct path.

But there’s a handful of people who are on the dark path. They resist and resist, and they want to take glory unto themselves, and they keep taking glory unto themselves as much as they can and doing things on the path of selfishness. Even though they go through all kinds of pain and discomfort, they continue because they’re bent on thinking that that is where the greatest fulfillment and pleasure is, is in seeking glory and pleasure and everything just for self.

Fortunately most people endure enough pain from following that path, that they retrace their steps and get back on the path of light, but there’s a handful who continue. In the scriptures, these are called the sons of perdition. In esoteric writings they’re called the Dark Brotherhood. And these people are bent on following the path of selfishness, but there’s not very many that enter into this dark path.

They cannot enter this dark path until they reach the third initiation. The first initiation is where the person gets control over his physical passions. And the second initiation is where you get control over your emotional body. But the third initiation . . . you’re not trusted by the powers that be until you get to the third initiation. Because there are a lot of good religious people that are on the first and even second.

But the third initiation is where you overcome illusion. You never completely overcome it, but you overcome it so you’re not tricked into following the dark path because of illusion. Does anyone know what illusion is as described by the esoteric writings? What does it mean to be caught up in an illusion?

Hitler was caught up in illusion. He was actually an initiate. He had good control over his physical nature, he was even a vegetarian. He was highly in control over his emotions. But then he got trapped in an illusion. What was Hitler’s illusion?

Susan: That his race was better.

JJ: Right. It was around race. He thought there was a big difference in the value of the different races, when in the true reality, we all have the same value in the eyes of God. Okay, we’re all brothers and sisters, but Hitler was under the illusion that that was not true. He thought the Jews were the spawn of Satan himself and that they needed to be completely eliminated. But Asaph proves Hitler wrong right there. Look at the guy. He’s just a sweet little guy.

Asaph: You don’t really know me. (laughter)

JJ: If he had known Asaph, he probably would’ve gotten straightened out right there. But anyway, he was under the illusion that some races were of more value than other races. Some colors were more values than other colors. And so he got caught up in this illusion and he thought he was doing right.

But this is the problem with illusion. When you get caught up in an illusion, you can have the best of intentions, and wind up doing wrong and harmful actions.

And so Hitler was caught up in that, and that caused him to start a war that killed millions of people and caused a lot of grief for a lot of humanity. This still happens today. I mean, look at the Taliban. The Taliban in their hearts, they are they’re doing the right thing, and there may be second degree initiates among them, but somebody there is caught up in illusion that the women are inferior – that’s an illusionary teaching – and the women need to be controlled, not educated. They have all kinds of illusions in their teachings.

This happens other places, even when these people from Islam cut off somebody’s head, they think that is a righteous thing to do to make a statement. So it’s interesting how people caught up in illusion can be thinking that they are supporting the righteous path.

It all comes down to the principle of glory. Everybody gets caught up in illusions sometime along the path, but we work our way out of it. We work our way out of it if we are not too centered on taking glory to ourselves. Then there are those that don’t make it and do not enter the path of return, the ones who insist on taking glory to themselves.

The way the disciple has to operate is when he performs the work, he has to do it from the viewpoint of the observer. I am the observer. I will perform this work. I will write this book, this song, do this painting. If people like it, fine. If they don’t like it, fine. I will accept the people’s judgment, but the person who violates the principle of glory, does not accept the people’s judgment.

And so they do everything they can to bring glory to themselves. Joshua did you have something?

Joshua: No, I was just stretching.

JJ: Oh. (laugher)

Curtis: Well I was going to say in the third initiation, the third Temptation of Christ, the Dark Brother, that was tempting Jesus was trying to take glory unto himself, and Jesus was told, if you like . . . so when he was taken to High Mountain and said if you’d be the Son of God, if you worship me, I will give you power over the nations. Well, what was the illusion?

JJ: You tell me.

Curtis: Well, the illusion was, first of all, he was going to offer Jesus something that he couldn’t, and that Jesus already had. Jesus already had the power within him. He already had power over the nations, you know, and the glamor. Well, the glamor was the second illusion . . . the second temptation.

But then Satan would have taken the glory unto himself for giving Jesus something that Jesus already had. So Jesus overcame the illusion, and the third temptation by saying, I don’t need power from an outside source. I have power over the nations if I want it from within.

JJ: Good point.

Yeah, the power that he promised was not a real power, but he did have . . . the negative energies do have power within the illusion itself. In other words, we see this in our world where negative sources have power over people’s lives, but it’s not real power. It’s power within the illusion. And that’s different than real power.

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The Importance of Giving Glory

2021 Gathering, Part Twenty-Three

(Commenting on the statement of Jesus “I can do nothing.”) We know we can do so some things. We can eat, we can walk around, we can write stuff. Technically, we can, literally, we can do some things, but what do you suppose Jesus meant when he said, “I can do nothing?” Because we know everyone can do some things, right. But that’s not what he meant. What did he mean? Yes, Joshua?

Joshua: Well, I guess he wasn’t at the stage of being overshadowed by the Christ where he was experiencing that consciousness, but part of where D.K. talks about how the Master has ceased desire and that the vehicle of manifestation in normal people is created by desire. But when you become a master, or maybe it’s higher than that, you don’t have that anymore. And you know, creating a mayavirupa from will, so when you’re at that level, it really is . . . you’re not doing it of yourself, you’re doing it of the, you know, oneness, spiritual principle, not the desire, ego, personality thing.

JJ: Yeah, all the higher spiritual powers, you cannot do from the viewpoint of the ego. It has to be done from the higher mind. So when he says, “of myself, I can do nothing,” what he virtually meant was “I can’t do anything that really means anything.”

Sure, I can maybe write a book, or I could walk a mile, or I could jump up and down or whatever. I can do a few things but doesn’t really mean anything. If I want to do something that really means something in the real world, in the real spiritual essence, I have to rely on God, or the Spirit, or the higher mind, or however we want to define the higher realms, but without the higher mind in contact with Spirit, we can do nothing of eternal value.

Rebecca: You know, I struggle with this really bad because I probably have a huge ego, but I struggle with the concept of self-value, you know, valuing self, seeing your higher self, seeing yourself as part of God. Yeah. Seeing yourself as nothing. There’s duality in my mind that I, I really haven’t been able to straighten out.

JJ: Okay. What is it about it that bothers you most concerning seeing yourself as nothing?

Rebecca: Well, I think that there’s a point where seeing yourself as nothing becomes unhealthy because you’re letting everybody run over you.

JJ: Okay, Well, he didn’t let anybody run over him, though, until the crucifixion. Yeah. So that’s not what he was saying. He wasn’t saying be milquetoast and let people run over you.

Because when he confronted the Pharisees and Sadducees, they were not able to run over him. They were not able to get the best of him. And they said he was so powerful in his presentation and said, no man dared ask him any question from that time forward because they were intimidated by the guy.

But the great part is, is that if you merge with the spirit and your soul, you will be something. I mean, you will be more . . . you will be more than human. You will be more than just the average guy on the street. You will be something, but your lower self is what you need to negate.

There’s the ego that’s trying and trying to go for glory and exalt itself above the God within you. That is what is supposed to be nothing.

Rebecca: So just for verification. So would it be correct to say, I don’t know, it’s just confusing. I’m not very good at verbal expression.

JJ: No problem.

Rebecca: So is it like finding your value in your connection with God? So with God, I am valuable. But when I’m not connected with God, I’m nothing. Is that the correct way?

JJ: Right. Because you don’t want to interpret it to the point where you don’t think you have any value. As an entity, as a son or daughter of God, you have tremendous value.

Rebecca: That’s what I’m asking.

JJ: It’s like A Course in Miracles says, “without you, heaven is not complete.” That’s what it says, and I think that’s a true statement.

Rebecca: So is it seeing yourself as valuable and valuable but not setting yourself above others then or by God.

JJ: Right. There’s the real you and then there’s the shadow of the real you. I mean, how much value is in your shadow when you’re walking around? It really doesn’t do you any good. It’s there, and it’s just following you around.

The ego is the shadow of your real self and of itself, the shadow can do nothing. But if the shadow joins with you and the shadow says, I am one with Rebecca, then me and Rebecca, we have everything.

Either you are one with the ego and you have no value in the eternal scheme of things, or you’re one with God and you’re invaluable. You are a piece of the puzzle that makes heaven complete.

Curtis: Yeah, it’s also called the reflection or the instrument. If the instrument says to the doctor, I have more value than you who manipulates me . . . that’s what it’s talking about. You’re the instrument or the shadow or the reflection or the lower self. But there’s still a link connecting the personality and the soul and the monad. So yeah, you still have value, but you have no power unto yourself as that instrument.

Rebecca: That’s great. Thank you. I appreciate that interpretation.

Curtis: So anyway, as far as the principle of glory goes, it’s interesting how difficult it is to take glory unto yourself. Let us suppose that you’ve worked really hard on something, and you think you’ve accomplished something that’s really important. If you go to people and you announce, Boy, I’ve really done a great job putting this together. What are people are going to think?

Oh, what a blowhard, and they all find things wrong with it, because when you have somebody brag about how good they are, people automatically want to take them down a notch.

I mean, that’s just the nature of things.

JJ: So if you want to if you want to get recognition for a work you’ve done, the best thing you can do is just put it out there. And if people accept it, fine. If they don’t accept it, fine. That’s the attitude a person has to have.

If he has attitude that “People must accept it, if they don’t accept it, I’m going to tell him, give them a piece of my mind. Listen, that painting I did it was really beautiful. Can’t you see that it was genius on my part for putting that together?” And people say, “it may be good, but if you have that attitude . . .” people are going to want to take you down.

They’ll say, “Oh, I’ve seen better than that, like kindergarten painters,” you know. And so they’ll try to pull you down if you try to bring glory to yourself. It’s an interesting thing that if you watch people . . . think of people you met in your life. You’ve all met people that have tried to take glory to themselves.

And when you’ve met these types of people, their friends will talk about them like, “yeah, he’s a big blowhard, you know. And they’ll talk about him that way because people just don’t like people bragging about their own abilities. So the best thing you can do is put it out there. You have to be the observer that D.K. talks about. Just put it out there and watch what happens.

Phillip: Rebecca and I had an experience that fits so perfectly with what you’re saying.

Rebecca: It’s an embarrassment.

Phillip: It was an embarrassment. (laughter) But it was really awesome. It was one of these really cool experiences that you just are like, wow, and you learn from it.

So we were heading out to Eastland, and a . . . a big, long drive. And as we’re driving Spirit Angels, or whatever you want to call it, comes to us and says, “okay, now we’re going to teach you how to walk on water.”

JJ: Oh yeah.

Phillip: Okay, this sounds really interesting, okay. And they gave us some dot points and they explained that each dot point, um, some really important concepts. And like one of them, for example, was, ‘this is a miracle.’ And, by the way, this is my perception. If you ask Rebecca, she’ll give you her perception. And we bring them together. (laughter)

JJ: You’re covering your bases there, Phil. (laughter)

Phillip: Exactly. So one of the principles was ‘this is a miracle.’ You don’t have to understand how it works. It’s a miracle because you don’t understand how it works. And another point was . . . the concept was ‘what threat are you going to give the water that if it doesn’t obey you, you’re going to threaten it with something?

JJ: That’s an interesting statement.

Phillip: Are you going to hit it, right now? What control do you have, the means of then you threaten it and use negative authority to try to get control over stuff. And the concept was ‘you can’t threaten the water. What are you going to do, slap it?’

JJ: Yeah.

Phillip: You can’t do that. So you have to persuade the water. And maybe the water doesn’t know how to become hard enough or to hold you up.

And so are you going to try to tell it, try to imagine the solution for the problem? And we were told, “no, you don’t come up with the solution. You tell the water to go to source. You just ask the water to do something persuaded to support you. But it’s the water’s job to figure out the solution through its own revelation. You don’t get the revelation to tell it what to do, the water gets its own revelation.”

Anyway, so, we were walking through all these different little concepts, and then one of the concepts was you didn’t do it and you don’t take credit for it. And so that was this is taking the glory. Because you don’t even know how it happens. You’re just telling the water, get a revelation, you do your own thing and I believe you can do it. And I really support you in doing this love and gratitude and everything.

So anyway, we get to where we’re going and the hotel had a pool, so we go down into the pool to try this out and we’re trying it out . . .

Rebecca: It was late at night. Nobody was there.

Phillip: Yeah, nobody was there. It was just us. And the water’s getting harder. And at first, you’re just pushing your hand through the water, but then it starts giving resistance and then finally, you can’t push the water down. It’s like the edge of the pool, except it’s in the middle of the water, up four . . . four and a half feet. And Rebecca says, “I think I can get on this. I think I can actually get up on it.”

JJ: Really?

Phillip: So she’s in the pool and I’m probably two feet away watching it. And she says, (inaudible). So we’re in the pool. And she says, “I think I can get on this.” And so she gets up and she puts her knee up on it and she’s leaning . . .

Rebecca: I put my foot on it.

Phillip: And she pulls her other leg up on it. And I’m like, “whoa!”

JJ: She’s actually standing on the water?

Phillip: Not quite standing, but kind of kind of kneeling.

Rebecca: My foot was just coming up. And I was just kind of getting my second foot up.

Phillip: And she looks at me and she says, “I did it!” And it was like somebody hit a dunk tank. (laughter) Where you throw the ball at the dunk tank. So she’s up on there and she looks at me and she says, “I did it!”

(Inaudible mixed comments.)

JJ: But you knew you were sustained for a minute.

Asaph: But she said, “I did it.”

Phillip: But she took the glory.

Rebecca: My feeling was I did it.

Phillip: And so, yeah, but she didn’t do it. And that was that was one of the main points that we had been told was that you aren’t doing it. You can’t take the credit. You can’t take the glory and say, “I’m doing it.” It’s not you doing it. And if you take the credit . . .

JJ: Maybe that’s what Peter did, “oh, I’m walking on water! Help!” (laughter)

Uh, Joshua has something to say there . . .  

Joshua: Oh, it’s just you’re talking about the blowhard guy as an example . . . when you’re taking the glory, there’s no space for anybody to give it to you because you’ve already taken it.

JJ: Yeah, that’s a good point. You can’t really say . . .say you . . . Phil and Rebecca wrote a book, right? You think that’s the best book that ever written, and you tell everybody what a great book it is and what a great writer you are. Then, even if we read it and thought you were a great writer, it’s . . . we think, well, he’s already grabbed all the glory for it. He doesn’t need a pat on the back. So you don’t get the positive feedback, even if even if your work was really good. It’s interesting.

Well, that’s interesting about your story there, Phil. Yeah, you notice when Jesus walked on the water, he didn’t say, “hey, I’m walking on the water, everybody, look!” (laughter)

He just walked on the water, and it was just the cool and natural thing to do. And, yeah, the scriptures, the New Testament is a really great example of one man who lived, who has lived, that gave glory to God in every instance.

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Key Five, The Principle of Glory

2021 Gathering, Part Twenty-Two

JJ: Key number five is the Principle of Glory. We presented this one of the gatherings. Does anyone remember how the Principle of Glory goes.

Curtis: Yeah, I acknowledge you, and the people that send to me and the people I send to .

JJ: Right, the greatest example, of the principle of glory was from the time of Moses. Does anyone remember why Moses was prohibited from entering the promised land.

Curtis: He took credit for the miracle of striking the rock that produced the water.

JJ: Right, Moses did just about everything God wanted. God told Moses to do stuff, and he went and did it, and couple times he was reluctant. He was told to go before the pharaoh, and he tried to worm out of it. He said, Well, I’m not a very good speaker. I won’t be able to make a good case.

And God told him, “Well then, we’ll send your brother Aaron along. He can be your spokesman because he’s a pretty good speaker. So apparently Moses wasn’t really a great speaker and but that wasn’t enough to get God mad at him. He did not want to go speak to the pharaoh, but he still did it reluctantly, along with his brother Aaron, as his spokesman.

And it seemed like Moses did pretty good. He gave speeches later on that seemed to be okay. But it’s possible Moses was just kind of dragging his feet. Whatever he did, he didn’t seem to do anything that bothered God.

He even one time argued with God. God said to Moses, how angry he was with the people, you know, for building the golden calf and everything. He said he was going to destroy them and then raise up a new seed through Moses. And Moses said, “no, you’re not going to do that, God.” Moses said, “because I’m not going to cooperate. If you if you destroy everybody but me and want to raise up a new seed through me and I don’t cooperate, you’ll be a liar. And you cannot lie. Therefore, I’m not cooperating.”

And even then, even when arguing with God . . . and he actually won the argument with God. God said, “Well, I guess I can’t put myself in a position where I’m a liar. So here’s what we’ll do, Moses. I’ll let the people live. But we’re going to we’re going to punish them by making them wander through the wilderness till they all die off.

And then after they die off, we’re going to take a rising generation. And with the rising generation, then we’re going to enter the promised land. So, you know, I’m not going to kill the people off immediately the way that I was thinking but they’re going to die within a 40-year time period and be replaced.

And over the 40-year time period, they all died off except for Moses, Aaron, and Joshua. I think they were the only ones that survived the 40 years.

And then they had a fresh generation that they could implant new ideas in. So even with Moses arguing with God and disagreeing with him, and even refusing to cooperate, it didn’t seem to make God angry. But then he did a little thing that seemed like a small thing that didn’t seem like a big deal.

Matter of fact, a lot of scholars wonder, well, how come God prevented Moses from entering the promised land over this small infraction that he made? And some scholars figure, well, maybe, maybe it wasn’t that Moses did anything so bad, but maybe it was just the fact that God just didn’t want Moses to enter the promised Land, but wanted to start fresh with the new leader, and he translated Moses and took him to himself or something.

Some then think that maybe it was just an excuse God had. But no, it all centered around the principle of glory. They were without water, and they were all complaining to Moses that they were thirsty. So Moses takes his rod and he says, “okay, I’ll get you some water.” And so he strikes a rock and water comes forth, and then Moses goes up to visit God, and God says to him, “Moses, why did you not give me glory with the water? Why did you take the glory unto yourself when you used my power?”

Moses replied, “well I just wasn’t thinking, I guess.” God says for this . . . He says, “You need to always give glory to God for anything that comes from God. Therefore,” he says, “you will be prohibited from entering the promised land.”

 

Now, why did God say that? Why was the principle of glory so important that just a moment, a moment of maybe Moses not thinking and not giving glory to God so annoying to God? Maybe annoyed is the wrong word since He’s beyond annoyance, but Moses broke the principle to the degree that he could not enter the promised land.

Darren: Could it be that taking going or credit for something is just showing separateness from God and the duality instead of being one with God and saying God, “this was through you.”

Curtis: Broke the link.

JJ: Yeah, all that’s all true.

JJ: It’s also a form of dishonesty. And the thing that separates us from God more than anything else is dishonesty. And that’s the worst kind of dishonesty because it’s the dishonesty where you take glory for something else.

In fact, there’s a lot of books written around the breaking of the principle of glory. I remember I saw this movie a while back . . . I can’t remember who starred in it . . . but this guy found this manuscript written by another author, and he claimed authorship when he submitted it to his agent. He was a struggling author himself. And boy, this was really a great story. He submitted it under his own name and became world famous. Then he felt really bad about that, but he didn’t feel bad enough to tell the truth.

And then he eventually met the author at the end . . . I can’t remember how it ended, but they kind of reconciled with each other.

But then there are other similar stories where the original author wanted revenge, which is usually the case.

But yeah, there’s nothing worse than a person putting a lot of effort into his own creation and then having someone else claim credit for it. And this does often happen.

Curtis: You know, we wrote those twelve principles and then that guy took them and put them in his book, Magnus Carter, or whatever it was.

JJ: Yeah, as well as my parable on the three blind men . . . we we’ve had that happen before.

People tend to take glory unto themselves. This is what the ego does. The ego takes glory to itself. It always seeks its own glory instead of someone else’s. But what is interesting about the principle of glory is that you cannot glorify yourself, and even Jesus realized this. He would always give the glory to God.

And He said, “Of myself, I can do nothing.” Boy, that’s a quite a statement to make, especially for somebody like Jesus, who seemed to have all power on heaven and earth, so to speak. “Of myself, I can do nothing.” You know, I’ve tried to say that to myself sometimes, and it’s a hard thing to say. Think of that.

How about you, Phil? Can you say that to yourself? “Of myself, I can do nothing.” It feels weird to say that doesn’t it?

Phillip: It does.

JJ: Yeah. Because you like to think, “Hey, I’ve got lots of power and I got authority. I can do this, and I can do that. But to say “of myself, I can do nothing” is the ultimate humility.

But Jesus said that several times. “Of myself, I can do nothing.” With God, you can do everything. And that’s why he had so much power, is he saw him as merely an agent and somebody that God was working through rather than someone special. He didn’t see himself as being special. “Of myself, I can do nothing.

That is a powerful statement, and I’ve been playing around with that lately, and to be honest, it’s very hard to honestly say it to yourself. I don’t like feeling that I am nothing, you know, and none of us do. All of us have powerful egos, and the ego wants as much recognition as it can get. We have what is called the lower mind and the higher mind.

The lower mind is the mind of the ego. And it wants as much glory and recognition and specialness as it can possibly get. The higher mind is linked to the soul and to God, and it realizes that of the ego it can do nothing. If the consciousness allows the lower mind to be in control, nothing can be accomplished that’s worth anything.

Anything that is worthwhile has to be accomplished through the higher, not the lower. Jesus gave the example of discounting the value of the lower  and giving glory to the higher.

So people tend to want glory for themselves, and we tend to try to get glory for ourselves, saying, “hey, I’m really good at this.”

It reminds me that movie Good Morning, Vietnam. Robin Williams was a comic, and his nemesis also wanted to be a comic, but he wasn’t funny, and he was always criticizing Robin Williams. And then they were having an argument about humor, and the guy says to Robin Williams, “I am funny!” (laughter) You remember that?

The audience thought, boy, the guy wasn’t funny at all. He had no humorous talent at all, so declaring he was funny was the epitome of un-funniness. So I always like that example of somebody trying to glorify themself. It just did not work at all. He convinced nobody that he was funny. And humor is something that really has to be demonstrated. Nobody can say, Hey, everybody, I’m really a funny guy.

I mean, that will just not work. But if somebody else says it, for example, if I say that about Curtis, “boy, he when he’s on his game, he’s a really funny guy.” People will say, yeah, I mean, he probably is.

Michael: So Mother Theresa was once asked, what did you aspire to be? And she said, I aspire to be nothing.

JJ: Really. So she followed the example of Jesus there. Yeah, yeah. That’s a hard thing to filter through. So, you know, it’s like when you notice that every miracle that Jesus performed, he had no personal benefit from it. Then, in the wilderness, all the miracles that he was tempted to perform would give him personal benefit. And he resisted each one of them. And that was his temptation; personal benefit over the glory of God.

“If, thou art the Son of God, change these stones into bread; because you haven’t eaten for 40 days, Jesus, you must be hungry.” Okay. If he would’ve changed the stones into bread, even though he was fasting for 40 days, according to the scriptures, he would have changed them for his own benefit. If he would have jumped from that tower to prove he was the Son of God, to prove that the angels would protect him, to prove that he was a messiah, that would have been for his personal benefit.

Curtis: That was glamour.

JJ: If he would have taken the kingdoms of the world, to rule, according to his desire that would have been to fulfill his personal desire. What he resisted in the Temptations was he resisted to use this spiritual power for his benefit. And then he goes among mankind and says, “Of myself, I can do nothing.”

We could reword that and say, “for my benefit, I will do nothing.” That is another way of wording that. That’s a lot easier to say. “Of myself, I can do nothing” is hard for the ego to say.

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Escaping the Beast

2021 Gathering, Part Twenty-One

Even though the media has always been somewhat biased, it used to be both sides could be represented on any question, but not anymore. There’s only one side on most of them. The media has decided which side of each question is to be represented. I think the media even controls politics more than politics control the media right now. Yeah?

Michael: The media’s controlled by corporations and corporations have their agenda, and that’s just an appendage or a mechanism for them to shape perception to get what they want.

So if it goes a little higher than that. There’s a really great book called “Hate Incorporated” that really goes into – and it was written by a guy named Matt Taibbi – but he really goes into how the media does pick the president. Shapes perception. But again, there’s an agenda behind it. They’re controlled by the oligarchs and the corporatocracy that runs this country, and the planet, basically, and that’s the goal.

JJ: Okay, well the social media, social corporations right now are the big ones. It used to be the big oil companies, but now they’re small fry compared to Facebook, Google, Twitter, and all these things. And they’re actually part of the media. So the corporations and the media have somewhat merged. And we also find big corporations not even different than the social media going and supporting things the media tells the people they’re supposed to support.

So we have tremendous pressure to conform. And the disciples . . . how do we escape the mark of the beast? One of the ways you can escape, is to work for yourself if you can. Not everybody can work for themselves, but those who can it’s a good idea. You escape a tremendous portion of the mark of the beast when you are your own boss.

But if you can’t be your own boss, then work for somebody with as much latitude as possible so you can have as much freedom as possible. With this vaccination thing, Biden has issued a decree, executive order, that any company with over 100 employees, all employees have to be inoculated, for instance. So you have a lot more freedom with a small company than maybe a big company and so on.

But yeah, if you can work for yourself . . . but even working for yourself, if it gets tight enough, we could have it to the point where they could actually put some chip in your right hand, and they could say something like, “you cannot buy or sell at the grocery store or anywhere else because you have to show this chip in your right hand. This shows that you have conformed to what we have agreed.”

Now, this could be vaccinations or some payment of taxes. It could be a number of things, but this would even affect us if we’re self-employed. The only people who wouldn’t be affected totally would be people who maybe have a bunch of gold stored away in their basement or something.

Maybe they could barter with that, but outside of that, there’s that possibility, and we want to avoid that possibility. So people need to wake up and do everything they can to make sure that freedom continues. Free speech is probably the most important freedom to continue to fight for, because there are so many agents out there trying to eliminate free speech through the back door.

Politically acceptable speech, that seemed really harmless 30, 40 years ago is now rejected by over half of the millennials who support the idea of making it illegal to say unpopular speech. That’s pretty scary when you think that older people are in for orthodox free speech, but the younger people are for some reason, they’re highly offended over all kinds of things. Close to half of them want free speech to be controlled by law. If we ever get to that point, we will be in big trouble. So hopefully we can prevent that from happening. Okay. Any other questions on authority, the mark of the beast?

Curtis: Well, they are trying to control guns through ammunition right now. It’s really hard to go down to Walmart and buy some. There’s really no ammunition available, so, you know . . .

JJ: Can you buy it at a gun shop or anything?

Curtis: No.

JJ: Really?

Curtis: Sometimes you can buy rounds for guns that nobody uses. You know, all these rare guns or whatever. But it’s not like it was ten years ago. You can’t go down and buy a nine-millimeter or 30, 30’s . . . they’re just gone. I got most of them. (laughter)

JJ: Well good for you.

Asaph: JJ, what are the future options for where the beast can go, in your opinion?

JJ: You mean after the media?

Asaph: Yeah.

JJ: Probably back to politicians.

Asaph: Islam, back to Islam?

JJ: They could go back to Islam because I don’t think the beast is done with Islam because it’s a powerful factor, especially now with Afghanistan getting billions of dollars’ worth of free weapons so they could become a major problem again. The negative powers that be could think, well, you know, there might be opportunity to exploit these guys.

So yeah, we’ll keep an eye on it because the beast is always ahead of public opinion. Public opinion thinks the beast is always where it was ten years ago. And public opinion never sees where it is right now, until it’s too late.

And then when they see it, then the beast will move somewhere else, as its focus.

Curtis: Probably into education.

JJ: Yeah, yeah, that can be. It’s now controlling education to a large degree, but it could be . . . It’s not really the focus of evil right now, but it could be. Yeah?

Adam: I was going to say, and you may have talked about this earlier today, but I know it’s extensive in your book . . . you know, you even have a chapter Beast-R-US, and ultimately the responsibility is on each of us because the ability . . . the power of the beast lies . . . you can have a perfectly benevolent, wonderful teacher. You could be reading DK. You could be reading good things from the Bible. You could think JJ is a great teacher, and they are. And they may have no ill intent themselves, but when we use them . . . just take their word for it without, you know, exploring our own inner Christ, and don’t place a check on that, then we make them an authority, regardless of any authoritative thing of those good things they’re trying to do.

So we ultimately bear the responsibility of not wearing the mark.

JJ: That’s a good point. Let’s suppose that 100 years from now my teachings become really famous with a large number of people, and in this in this group, they say, oh, you’re speaking contrary to what J.J. says, that’s wrong. You’re going to be thrown out, you know? So I could become the beast, or I can become the focus of the beast.

Or my teachings could be if they become . . . if the people that have control of my writings were too black and white. Just like even the words of Jesus, as great as they are, if they’re controlled by strong authority, then they’re part of the mark of the beast. If, if you can’t interpret it according to the God within, if you’re prohibited from interpreting anything, and that thing that you’re trying to interpret may be the greatest light that’s out there, but if some authority is telling you how to interpret it and you can’t interpret it any other way and you accept that, then you have accepted the mark of the beast.

And so to escape the mark of the beast is, in simplicity, we just have to think for ourselves and not let others do our thinking and not let others control our actions and our feelings, but develop them in cooperation with the Holy Spirit within.

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The Focus of Evil

2021 Gathering, Part Twenty

Shawn: So, that’s an interesting one, and I liked the information you were giving us on 666. I had a funny experience with that.

Well, let me just first say I respect those who are teaching Relief Society in the Mormon Church or any other Sunday School or anywhere, because that’s what they’re supposed to be doing right now. So everything is kind of gray and there’s nothing that’s black and white or right for us all.

But for me tithing in the Church was a huge thing, you know. It’s your pass to the temple . . . one of the main passes. But my tithing was always kept track of meticulously. So I had multiple sources of income, even though they weren’t big, they were multiple sources. One year in 2014, I added all these up. And it was not a good year. (laugh) But the number was 666.

JJ: Oh really. (laughing)

Shawn: And I had to laugh because the Lord has a sense of humor. So that was the last time I paid tithing in that forum to the Mormon Church. I had records from years and years, and I just threw them all away. But I kept track of not just this current year, but all the years and it was in a spreadsheet, and I was getting to a point of trying to give more of a percentage away than just ten percent . . . and all this stuff . . . but then in the end it came down to 666. That’s what I paid; you know it was 666. Six hundred sixty-six dollars and sixty-six cents.

JJ: Haha, wow.

Shawn: So that was what, there’s a few sixes there. But that was what the number actually came out to be when you included everything I had. But that’s not to say that things aren’t changing, that we can’t change. That’s not to say that Elder Nelson can’t go from lying for the Lord to being maybe a prophet with a small p. I don’t know, you know. So we’re all able to change, we’re all able to grow, and to do things. And so his lying for the Lord in the past, maybe the Lord forgave him for that. There’s just a lot that changes. So I appreciate your information on judgment. Because I used to look at judgment as not judging others, but your information was enlightening for me yesterday. So thank you.

JJ: Yeah. When you think of unearned authority, it’s just not the Church, it’s everywhere. The medical establishment is very powerful with unearned authority. People go to their doctor, and he may say, “well, it looks like you’ve got three months to live, sorry fella.” And they’ll take it to heart and oftentimes when they’re told that, they’ll die right at three months, just because of their belief system.

Other people just think that through and reject it, and they’ll live a long life, but they have to put that negative thoughts out of their minds. They have to reject that unearned authority. That doctor doesn’t know he’s got three months to live for sure. Then they will just go through the orthodox prescription of medicine, orthodox treatment.

Concerning cancer, for instance, they will use standard radiation treatments and so on, that will often not only kill you but make your death very painful and distressful. Sometimes you’re a lot better off to live a few months, shorter time period, and a better quality of life.

My sister and Curtis’s mother went through hell with her cancer treatments, and I think she would’ve been better off to not take any treatment at all.

Curtis: Yeah, for a year, a year of pain and suffering.

JJ: She said my mother took some cancer treatments and they were successful for her. But I know when my sister got it, she said, “boy didn’t know what my mom must have gone through.” She said, “it was a lot harder than I imagined.” That’s what she told me.

Curtis: She said, “well I just saw my doctor and I just signed my death warrant.”

JJ: She said that?

Curtis: Yeah.

JJ:  Wow. Yeah, that’s too bad.

Curtis: There was no turning her around. There was no convincing her.

JJ: Yeah, that’s too bad.

And there are a lot of people with good cancer treatments that have saved a lot of lives, and many have been thrown in jail. They suffer persecution from the government, especially when they find treatments that are cheap. If there’s a treatment that’s expensive and big pharma can make a bunch money off of it, then that’s no problem. You can take that treatment all you want, as long as it makes the establishment a bunch of money.

The same thing with Covid, like, Ivermectin is really cheap. A lot of physicians who are honest will say that the virus could’ve been completely eliminated if we had just used that alone, as the major medicine. But because it’s cheap, nobody in the establishment wants to, for they are making a lot of money and want to promote it to keep the dollars flowing in.

Curtis: What is it that’s cheap?

JJ: Ivermectin. It is a really cheap drug that you can get. It’s a horse de-wormer.

Curtis: Oh yeah, I heard about that.

JJ: And a handful of people have taken the horse medicine, which is a thousand times as much as a human is supposed to take, and it’s made them sick. So the media projects this, “these stupid people out there taking this horse medicine and it’s making them sick.” Well, hardly anyone’s taking the horse medicine amount. I mean, maybe about two to three people out of millions. But that’s what they use as an example.

Artie and I have taken it several times and you don’t feel as much effect as you do from an aspirin. You just don’t feel anything.

Curtis: And it’ll knock out the virus?

JJ: Yeah, and prevents you from having it too.

Curtis: I want some.

JJ: Well Artie will give you the name of a doctor that will prescribe it.

Asaph: Indiscernible. (laughter)

JJ: Yeah, a lot of people are going to the veterinarian supplies and getting it and trying to chop off the right amount for themselves. But you have to make sure you don’t get the horse dosage.

Susan: You take an eighth of a teaspoon per 150 pounds.

JJ: Have you taken it, Sue?

Susan: I have for ten months.

JJ: For ten months, oh. Yeah, you can’t afford to get it can you?

Susan: (nods)

JJ: And this is all part of the control of the beast. The beast right now is really tightly controlling the media. You have anyone in the media that tries to write an honest article or present an honest news story on controversial items that they don’t want out . . . they’ll get fired immediately. Or they’ll get reassigned. Or they’ll get warned, you know.

“We won’t publish this, and any more of this and you’re gone.” So they control these people tremendously in the media, and the funny thing about the tricky old beast, is he moves from one place to another. The mistake a lot of conservatives make who try to pinpoint the conspiracies out there . . . they’ll say, “well the conspiracies among the Jews or the international bankers . . . I’m sure Asaph is a big conspirator.

Asaph: I own the bank.

JJ: The international bankers or the intelligentsia of some type, the illuminati . . . and they try to pinpoint all these . . . or the communist conspiracy. But what they don’t realize is the dark brotherhood moves around. During Hitler’s time, they were focused on the Nazis.

After the Nazis were defeated, a lot of people were worried that that’s where the focus of evil still was, so they were doing everything they could to eliminate every Nazi they could that continued to exist, but that wasn’t where the beast was anymore.

Then it moved over to communism and built up the Soviet empire. And then when it became obvious where the focus of evil was, communism fell, and the dark brothers moved somewhere else.

Ed: Those who control the money.

JJ:

Well, money’s always been part of the control, whether it’s been Communism, Naziism, or whatever, but money itself is neutral and can be used for good or evil.

Asaph: Extreme Islam

JJ: Right. Extreme Islam. That became the next one. And then, Bush started this war against radical Islam and we kind of got things somewhat under control, and we never got attacked again, and so the beast snuck away from them and thought, “well, maybe I’ll get back to them a little later.” Where’s the focus of evil right now?

Curtis: Afghanistan.

Adam: CNN. (laughter)

Michael: Wallstreet.

Asaph: China.

Adam: The media.

JJ: The media. Right. The media. It’s focusing on the media. The media is breaking all the rules. I minored in journalism when I was in college, worked on the college newspaper, and the prime directive was you do not insert opinion in hard news. If I were to do that in the papers that I wrote in college, I would have gotten an F. And now, all these media people deserve F’s because they inject their opinion in hard news.

For instance they will act like Ivermectin is used only for horses and we are not horses and shouldn’t be taking it, and that’s a complete lie. People are not taking the horse dosage. Maybe a couple did a long time ago. They’ll say that it’s unproven and doesn’t work, and they inject their opinion. And most who have used it says that it does work. The nations that are using it have a lot lower infection rate than we do.

Nations in Africa are using it. The only nation in Africa that has a problem is South Africa, which is very western in their thinking. The rest of the continent uses natural methods and use Ivermectin, and they don’t have much problem. And they also use Hydroxychloroquine there a lot in like Nigeria. We have several people in the group from Nigeria and they don’t have any problem there at all to speak of. They tell us . . . yeah, they use Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine, which are completely discouraged by the media here.

So it’s interesting how the mark of the beast is so powerful and in control. And it shifts, it shifts around, and right now it’s in the media. And in the media, anyone with any light cannot write anything that reveals light and truth. If they do, they will be fired . . . unless it’s in alignment, unless it doesn’t disturb the thoughtform.

You know they could maybe write about motherly love or loving your dog or something like that, and they’d say, “well that’s okay.” But they can’t write anything that reveals light and truth on say, the virus or anything controversial that they have taken a side on.

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666, The Number of the Beast

2021 Gathering, Part Nineteen

JJ: Then it tells us about the mark of the beast . . . that the beast will have the number . . . we’ll be able to recognize the beast because he has the number 666. Now six is a number that governs the solar plexus, the emotions, and it governs strong authority. It also governs the Piscean age. So it’s very powerful during the Piscean age.

So six governs emotional control, and control by strong authority, as represented in the Piscean age. There are three sixes. The reason there are three sixes, is because it controls all three areas of normal living. The first is the physical. The second is the emotional. And the third is the mind. And the beast wants to control them all.

In other words, the reason he’s called the beast is because the people subjected to him are like beasts. They’re like animals that don’t think on their own. They’re herded around. They’re told what to do, what to think, how to behave, where to go, and when to eat and one of the reasons that he’s called the beast is that we are treated as beasts by a beastly authority if we have the mark of the beast.

So what happens if you receive the mark of the beast and the 666?  Then you will be subject to control of the beast on the physical level – so if he tells you to do something, you will do it. If he tells you to pay your taxes, you pay your taxes. Just about all of us do that, don’t we? If he tells us to get vaccinated, we get vaccinated. If he tells us we’re supposed to attend church, we attend church. Whatever the outward authorities tell us to do, that is what we physically do.

The mark of the beast on the emotions is extra control still. They tell us how we’re supposed to feel about stuff. You’re supposed to feel respectful toward this president, but not this president; toward this person, but not this person; toward this group; but not this group. So there will be people, unearned authorities, telling you how you’re supposed to feel about things.

Now this thing that you’re told to feel about, could be something good,or it could be something negative. It doesn’t really matter. If you’re just feeling that way because that’s the way you’re supposed to feel, then you have the mark of the beast.

One person here may feel one direction, like say communism is great. Another person may feel capitalism is great. And maybe they’re both feeling that way just because they’re told that’s the way they’re supposed to feel, even though they disagree with each other. And even though one ideology may be a lot more correct than the other, it doesn’t really matter. Even if what you feel is the right thing . . . if you’re feeling it just because you’re supposed to feel, because that’s what the authorities decreed, then you have the mark of the beast in your emotional body.

Okay, now your mind. This is what the beast is really going after in this age . . . is the mind. Because we’re switching from the age of Pisces to the age of Aquarius. And the age of Aquarius is ruled by mind. And when you have a switch from one age to another, you have the energies of the old age seeking to survive. So they will do everything possible to pull you back to the old way of thinking, and this is what is happening right now.

We’re at a point where half the population seems to have a little common sense, and the other half seems to have no sense whatsoever. (laughing) And so we have people who are trying to implement the thinking polarization in the mind. And the other half resisting and doing everything they can to like, uh, limit free speech for instance. We cannot have the mind dominate if we can’t have free speech.

This is one of the big battlegrounds right now . . . is free speech. Because without, we cannot enter peaceably into the Aquarian Age. That’s just one example. We must be able to keep the freedom of speech, or else we cannot demonstrate the power of mind over emotion. Without free speech, emotion can completely dominate.

So we want to eliminate the power of the beast over the mind. This has to start with the individual. The individual has to realize that if he is told he has to believe a certain thing or think a certain way, then he has to look at it and ask, “what is really true?” This is what he has to ask.

And this is what many people in the churches and in the political parties don’t do. They say, “well this is what we believe.” Instead of questioning it, they just go along with it. To question it, you need free your mind from the beast and actually ask questions.

And this got me and Curtis in a lot of trouble with the Mormon church when we started asking questions. If you ask too many questions, whether it be the Mormon church or the Democrat or Republican party, the Catholic church, Islam – boy Islam, you really get into bad shape if question anything there – so the disciple needs to be able to ask questions. And he has to internally come up with questions that he will answer from his inner self.

So that’s basically the mark of the beast. And the number of the beast is the three sixes, first six: energy controlling the body and the actions of the body. And the second six: controlling the emotional energy, the emotional self. And the third six: emotional, authoritative energy governing the mind, so telling you what to think.

How about you, Asaph, do you think on your own?

Asaph: No, I just listen to you and do what you tell me.  (laughter)

JJ: (laughing) That’s easy. Well, you know, that’s interesting that you say that, even though you’re joking. This is the lazy man’s way. And a lot of people think this way. It’s like the Mormon leaders used to tell me and Curtis, you know, as far as Mormon doctrine goes, thinking has been done and judgment has been set, and this is the way it is, okay. The thinking has already been done.

Curtis: Yeah, what got us in trouble was asking, “well, if the prophet is a revelator, show us a new revelation.”

JJ: Yeah.

Curtis: They tell us, “Well, everything he (prophet) says is a revelation. (laughter) If he speaks, he’s revealing.”

JJ:
Yeah, they’ll say “ don’t you guys attend General Conference? All kinds of revelations are going on there.” 

Curtis: “Yeah, lots of them.”

“No ‘thus saith the Lord.’ No . . . well show us one specific then.” And they talk about blacks receiving the priesthood. That was the big revelation back in the day.

So you can’t discern unless you can ask questions.

JJ: Yeah.

Susan: But it’s changed now.

Curtis: Huh?

Susan:  It’s changed now.

Curtis: Yeah?

Susan: Because what they’re saying now is that “the restoration” is not through – that there’s a lot more to come.

 JJ and Curtis: They say it’s not true?

JJ: Oh, not through. Well, in the Articles of Faith it says there’s a lot more to come, alright.

Susan: But they emphasize it now. They’re not pretending that they’ve got it all.

Ed:

The energy of Aquarius shines on the whole world and people interpret it in different ways according to their belief.

Susan and JJ: Yeah.

Curtis: Well, is it coming through? What’s coming through? Anything recently? I know they’ve changed the structure of the church – it’s no longer 70’s . . .

Susan: They’re emphasizing women and the priesthood.

JJ: Do you think they’ll give women the priesthood one of these days?

Susan: I don’t think they’ll ever give them the authority to run the church, but they are talking about how women have the priesthood.

JJ: Oh yeah. Co-priesthood-holders is what they used when I was in the church.

Curtis: The what?

JJ: Co-priesthood holders, for women. Yeah, trying to make them feel a little bit better about not having it. (laughter)

Rebecca: What’s the key word here for the fourth Key? Is it authority?

JJ: There’s no one key word for it, but yeah, authority would be the most important word to understand. But the key to the Book of Revelation is that it’s not something that’s going to literally happen on the physical plane.

Now we’ll have things that happen where people will say, “oh boy, it looks like the Book of Revelation is coming true.” And then it won’t all happen as advertised, but certain things will correspond.

For instance, when they had the nuclear accident at Chernobyl, I think the root of Chernobyl had something to do with Wormwood. And a lot of people thought, well this is the beginning. (laughter) And then nothing followed, you know. But there will be correspondences, and not everything will happen in the sequence there. But the sequence there is important for the development of the disciple, as he develops awareness as he continues on.”

Now, you have the seven churches showing the development of the seven rays within the seven chakras. After they get so developed, then in Chapter Four, what happens? What happens in Chapter Four? The Heavens open. Okay. What does that symbolize?

Curtis: Your spirit begins to radiate.

Asaph: Soul contact.

JJ: It symbolizes the transfiguration like as happened with Christ, for instance. It symbolizes the third initiation – the point where the person receives communication with the inner God, okay.

So we have the first three chapters, no, then it’s Chapter Four where the heavens open if I remember right. In the first three chapters, they talk about the seven churches and what they mean, and the letters to them. Kind of just standard stuff it sounds like, and then the heavens open and he has the grand revelation.

So it symbolizes the progression of the disciple. He struggles along, overcomes all kinds of things. He gets pretty much control of his physical appetites. Then he gets control of his emotions. Now when he gets control of his emotions and starts to develop his mind, then the heavens . . . then there’s a connection when he gets to that link with the higher mind, then the heavens open.

And the heaven’s opening in that chapter reveal the great arrival of the disciple into soul contact or contact with the inner self. And then from that point it on, it goes into the development where the person becomes like Christ. And then it even goes beyond Christ, representing what development Christ would make after he had the resurrection experience. So it’s pretty interesting when you look at it in that light. Okay, any more comments on that key?

Rebecca: What was it called again?

JJ: The key to the Book of Revelation, would be just the name of it. It represents the path of the disciple. I think RuLeena said that statement, she said the path of the disciple.

Ed: In Esoteric Psychology, they have the rules for disciples.

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The Mark of the Beast

2021 Gathering, Part Eighteen

What’s interesting is that authority has been considered a good thing and the days of Jesus was no exemption. In past ages we had an emperor or king with strong authority. The people thought that it was good to have a strong king, and this king . . . if you don’t do what he says, off with your head. They really respected the king as long as it’s the “right head” that goes off. (laughing) You know, “not my head.”

So the strong authority was respected, and Jesus had to set up the organization of the Molecule in that day with fairly strong authority, and he had to demonstrate that authority with the great miracles he performed. The great miracles that he performed, caused people to look upon him as “wow, this is a man with authority!”

Like, when he stilled the winds, and there was a big storm . . . they asked, “what manner of man is this?” that even the winds obeyed him. And they began to see his authority, respect it. That authority was good, but the way it was seen was not so good, for there was something flawed in the way the authority began to develop after the days of Jesus.

John the Revelator saw that this was happening for he said, “even now, the antichrist is in the world.” (I John 4:3 ) And what is the religious world expecting? They think the antichrist is going to show up in the near future. But John, in one of his short books, said that, “even now, the anti-christ is in the world.”

So even then, it was “in the world.” So John saw that this negative spin on authority was going to get out of hand sometime by the end of the Piscean age. The Piscean age represents this powerful authority, and the unearned authority is the mark of the beast. He saw the beast rise up out of the sea with seven heads and ten horns and ten crowns upon his heads. This beast represented powerful authority. We won’t go into everything that the beast means right now, but we have the beast and then the image of the beast. These all represent extensions of powerful misuse of authority.

Now there’s two types of authority. There’s earned authority and unearned authority.

Authority in this age has some good aspects to it if it is an earned authority. In other words, if you’re going to learn Spanish, and your teacher can demonstrate that he can speak Spanish, and he can write it, and he knows all about it, he is an earned authority. And when he teaches you something about Spanish, you think “well it’s probably true,” because he has demonstrated he understands it.

If you have another teacher who can’t speak it, who says, “yeah, I can teach you,” then you’re not sure whether you can trust him or not when he tells you how a word is pronounced. Maybe he’s right. Maybe he’s wrong. But if he demands that you believe him whether he has authority or not, then that’s the misuse of authority. And we see that misuse all the time in our system today.

The government comes out with something, like say the current vaccine. We don’t know if it’s safe or not, but if anyone doubts it, they want to punish us. If somebody believes it, fine. It may or may not be safe, but we should have the freedom to doubt. They don’t give us the freedom to doubt. They say, if the government decrees something, we’re just supposed to accept it without doubt. If we doubt, then they want to punish us.

So, the beast will come forward, and he will permeate society and he will demand that we have a mark in the right hand or the forehead. It says, without this mark, we can’t buy or sell. So how do the regular fundamentalist Christians interpret the mark of the beast? Anybody know?

Audience: They say it’s a physical mark.

JJ: Physical mark. Right. Have you heard about the computer chip being planted in your right hand?

Rebecca:  Inaudible – something about the MRNA vaccine.

JJ: Okay, so . . . it never made a lot of sense to me, putting a computer chip in the forehead. (laughing) I wonder how they figure that. Okay, so other people think the barcode is the mark of the beast because apparently it has 666 in it somehow. So they come up with all kinds of things that they figure the beast will be doing to prevent us from buying or selling.

Now what’s interesting is that during the rise of Hitler, a lot of people thought that he might be the antichrist. He did decide to put a mark in people’s hands, and since he read the Bible, he thought, “well, I don’t want to be compared with the beast, so I’m not going to put it in the right hand, I’m going to put it in their left hand.” So with the Jews, he put the mark in their left hand, rather than their right hand so he wouldn’t be compared to being the beast.

If he would’ve put it in the right hand, people would’ve had evidence for him being the beast. So I thought that was a clever thing for him to do, to use the left arm and left hand for the marks that he put in various people.

The fact that he put the mark in the left hand, did not mean that the Nazis escaped the mark of the beast. They still had the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast in the right hand . . . what does that mean?

Asaph: The deeds.

JJ: Right. The deeds. Your labor. The right hand symbolizes your labor. It means that the labors that you perform have to be approved by unearned authority. Okay. So the mark in the forehead . . . what does that mean?

Curtis: The way you think.

JJ: The way you think. The thoughts that you think and believe in, must be approved by an unearned authority. That would be the mark of the beast in the forrehead.

I realized this when I was in the Mormon church, when I was about to be excommunicated. I thought, “they are the mark of the beast.” They put the mark of the beast in the forehead. If you think differently, they will get rid of you. That’s what happened to me. I escaped the mark of the beast by declaring “I do not have to think the way I’ve been told to think, by people that don’t know the truth.”

The people who are unearned authorities were telling me what to think, and I did not have to participate so I could escape the mark of the beast. And in Revelation 14: 1, it tells about people who escape the mark of the beast, and where did they have the mark?

Adam: The name of God in their hearts . . . heads.

JJ: Right. The name of God was in their foreheads. It says they had the name of God in their foreheads. Instead of the mark of the beast in their foreheads, it says the 144,000 that “followeth the lamb whithersoever he goeth,” hath the name of God in their foreheads, not the mark of the beast. These are people who escape the mark of the beast. But what does it mean to have the name of God in your forehead?

Curtis: You follow your inner light. Follow your own soul.

JJ: Right. That means that you realize that God can speak to you personally. That you have within you a spark from God. You have within you a connection to God that bypasses any outward authority. If you have a revelation, an intuition, an instinct that comes to you from the God within your forehead . . . and the crown, the ajna center within you’re forehead . . . is said to be the throne of God. God sits in between the two pedals of the ajna center. A pedal here and a pedal here (pointing), and the throne of God is here. This is where the throne of God is within the forehead that you can tune into and bypass any mark of the beast. So you can escape the mark of the beast in the forehead by focussing on God sitting on his throne in the forehead.

So it says, “144,000.” Does that mean like the Jehovah’s Witnesses taught, until recently at least, when they exceeded the number . . . that there are only going to be 144,000 in heaven, and then that’s it?

Curtis: Inaudible.

JJ: Yeah, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are kind of funny there. They taught that . . . when they were a small church, they taught that there was a limit. Then when the people that were claiming to be or get the revelation of the 144,000, that they were one of them . . . when they exceeded the 144,000, then they went back to the Bible and they found, “well, there’s another group here that might get into heaven.” (laughing)

So they’re squeezing more people in now. (laughing) But that’s funny how that happens when the scriptures don’t quite fit people’s interpretation. Then they can alter their interpretation to make it fit their mindset.

No. The 144,000 is just a symbolic number. It’s a molecular number, representing what you might call a human cell. It doesn’t correspond a hundred percent to a human cell, but it’s a molecular combination where, when there is a 144,000 with soul contact, they will reach a lifeform together that, it says, “they follow the Christ whithersoever he goeth.”

So they will be like 144,000 Messiahs, so to spea, but that’s just one number. Then there will be a second 144,000. And then a third 144,000. So, it’s not a limiting number. It’s a number of a combination that will produce some spectacular results when that number is reached.

Curtis: It’ll be like a planetary DNA.

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Key Four: The Unveiling – The Path of The Disciple

2021 Gathering, Part Seventeen

JJ: We’ve only got nine Keys to go. (laughter) We won’t spend a lot of time on each one of them. Anyone remember what Key number four is?

Key number four is the Key to the Book of Revelation itself. And does anyone remember what that is?

Audience: The Unveiling?

JJ: That’s kind of a key word.

Audience: The Path of the Disciple.

JJ: What. Path of the Disciple, is that what you said? Yes. That’s the right direction.

The key to the book of Revelation is not that we’re going to have tremendous destruction, and not going to have big comet that falls upon the waters and destroys one-third of all the fish, and all these things that it talks about there – where tremendous destruction is going to just rain down.

And that should be obvious from the first couple of verses. Because it begins by saying, “Blessed is he that readeth and doeth the things in this book.” (paraphrased) Okay, so who in the world feels blessed after reading the Book of Revelation? You read the Book of Revelation and if things are going to happen, literally, as it says, you think, boy, I don’t even want to be there. Nobody is going to be blessed. Everybody is going to be upset. If you have a 100 million man-army (or whatever it says) raise up. If you have locusts and all kinds of plagues happening . . who’s going to feel blessed about that?

And this book, this revelation is given, “to show unto his servants that which will shortly come to pass.” Now that’s interesting for it’s been two thousand years, and by most any standard – unless you’re on Kolob time of some type – two thousand years is not a short time. Can you imagine someone making a prophecy right now saying, “it’s just going to be a short time before this prophecy happens . . .  sometime after the year 4000.” People would look at you funny, “well that’s not a short time. The year 4000? Boy that’s a long way away.”

But it says that this revelation will “show unto his servants, that which will come to pass within a short time.” Okay. How could that prophecy possibly come true?

It will come true because those who read it and understand, will have everything in the book of Revelation come to pass in their minds within a short period of time. As soon as they understand it, their understanding comes to pass.

The whole Book of Revelation explains how an average person, an average seeker, can advance to become a disciple, and then to become like Christ, and then even go beyond where Christ is. The book gives us steps in advancement so when the disciple reads this and understands, he can understand how to incorporate them in a short time.

As a matter of fact, the book is written to shorten the amount of time it takes to become like Christ. If you understand the principles in the Book of Revelation, your path of becoming like Christ will be shortened.

So why didn’t John just write something clear about how to follow the path of the disciple and become like Christ? Why do you think he didn’t write it that way?

Asaph: The authorities would have destroyed him.

JJ: Right! The authorities of the Church would have destroyed it immediately. “Well that’s blasphemous to become like Christ, okay. We cannot allow this book to remain!”

But on the other hand, authorities kind of like books of doom. So he wrote a doomsday book. He put everything that the disciple needs to become like Christ if he can read it correctly. So the information is still there, but it’s hidden.

Okay. So we have the messages to the seven churches. What does that symbolize?

Audience: The energy points?

JJ: Right. It symbolizes the opening of the seven chakras. So in order to become like Christ, what each disciple has to do is open the seven chakras: the base of the spine, the sacral, the solar plexus, the heart, the throat, the third-eye, and the top of the head.

So all of these letters to the churches, are symbolic of that and the seven Rays. The Seven Rays . . . the First Ray is the Ray of Power – Will, Power, Purpose; the second Ray is Love-Wisdom; the Third Ray is the Ray of Active Intelligence . . . what do you think that means, Active Intelligence? Curtis you’re pretty active intelligence. Do you know what . . . what does that mean when it says Active Intelligence?

Curtis: It means you’re doing things intelligently?

JJ: Yeah, the Third Ray governs matter. And you’ll notice that matter has intelligence built into it. And a long time ago, in a past Universe, everything was created from scratch so to speak, and all that intelligence that was gathered to create the subatomic particles of matter and put everything together was like great computer programs that were developed.

And so matter itself has active intelligence built into it. And we would be amazed at the intelligence built into a single atom. It took a tremendous amount of intelligence to build that. This is why matter is governed by the third Ray of Active Intelligence, because it took Active Intelligence to create matter. Yeah, Ed, you had something?

Ed: In Latin, matter is mater. Mater means mother.

JJ: Yeah, it’s closely associated with mother.

Ed: The mother principle.

JJ: And the female energy is closely associated with matter – mother-matter, so to speak. That’s a good point.

Okay, the Fourth Ray is the Ray governing creative energy [Harmony through Conflict]; and the Fifth Ray is Concrete Science; and then the Sixth Ray is the Ray of Devotion, and this is the Ray that is really strong right now – Ray Six, because Ray Six governed the age of Pisces. And the age of Pisces was a very strong, authoritative, idealistic age. We had the Crusades, which was a very idealistic thing.

But it began with Jesus. Jesus presented idealism in the most positive way you can think of – the perfect man, the perfect example, the perfect disciple, the perfect Messiah. He presented the ideal man. And so He presented the sixth Ray, and one of the few times in the Piscean age that the sixth Ray was presented in a real positive way.

But as time went on during this Piscean age, this idealism became corrupted. So we began to fight . . . one idealistic society began to fight another for who’s ideal was the one that was going to rule. So this idealism fought against idealism. The Sixth Ray also governs the solar plexus and has a very strong emotional energy. We see, during the past 2000 years, very strong emotional energy centered around very idealistic thought, in conflict with other idealistic thought.

Now some idealism has brought forth some good things. The teachings about the ideal of love has been good, despite the fact that, some say, Christianity has done a lot of negative things . . . it’s also done a lot of positive things. And the interesting thing about love is that before Jesus came along, they used the word, but they didn’t understand it in the way He presented it. He presented it in a way that people never thought of it before.

And this is what we really don’t understand today, that love has actually permeated society more than a lot of people think it actually has. Because back in those days, keeping a slave was no big deal. If you conquered other people, well you had the right to take their women as your wives and abuse them as you wanted. If you conquered another people, you would humiliate their leaders . . . cut off their ears and cut off their tongues, maybe pour molten lead down their throats to teach them a lesson.

But they did stuff back then that was just kind of normal, for the time. And they didn’t think about the human consequences. And we do some bad stuff today, but we don’t go around pouring lead down people’s throats after we win a war over them. We don’t do stuff like they did in those old days. Maybe the Taliban’s the closest to doing stuff like that. Most countries that we see in a negative light, aren’t nearly as bad as they were before Jesus showed up.

So Jesus showed up at a time when people were entrenched in materialism. They were not very friendly to animals. If they saw a dog, they often saw it as something that was just to be killed, or thrown out, or disparaged. They didn’t have pets the way we have them today.

There are a lot of differences between now and 2000 years ago. They didn’t have anything like the Red Cross, which takes care of people on both sides of the battle. We didn’t have charitable organizations like we have today. So we have made a lot more progress than people think.

And it goes against what I learned in church. When I was going to church, they used to say, “We are living in the most wicked generation that ever lived!” Have you heard that a lot? Yeah, but it’s not. If you think about it, it’s not the wickedest generation at all. If you read the ancient history you’ll see people did some terrible things to each other.

If you go back to the ancient Israelites, they were criticized because they would conquer a people and maybe kill everybody in the town, or whatever. And people say, “well that was horrible.” But the other nations were even worse. The other nations would not just kill you, but they would torture everybody. Israelites didn’t torture people after they conquered them . . . they just enslaved them or eliminated them. And they were fairly merciful about it in comparison to the other nations that would sacrifice their babies, they would take their wives and rape them and abuse them.

By our standards, the ancient Israelites were kind of rough. But their enemies were a lot rougher than they were. And this is what the critics of the Bible leave out. As time progresses, that which is evil in one time becomes something else in another time. That which was good in the days of Moses, became evil in the days of Jesus. And that which was good in the days of Jesus, has become evil today. What was good in the days of Jesus that has become evil today?

Asaph: Slavery.

JJ: Yeah, slavery was considered good, not by Jesus and the Apostles, but there was something else that was considered really good, or reasonably good back then that now people realize is not so great. And John the Revelator realized it when he wrote the Book of Revelation.

Adam: Strong authority.

JJ: Strong authority. Right. Strong authority was considered a good thing. Jesus was a central authority, and he organized the Molecule around Him. Back then, people’s consciousness could not transcend strong authority. But John realized that and revealed the dark side of authority, but did it in his writings about the beast.

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Perception and Truth

2021 Gathering, Part Sixteen

Joshua: I’ve had somebody use a phrase with me in a conversation, and I called them out for it. And then they said, “well, you know . . .” And then I said something, and they were like, “oh yeah, I really meant that.” But what they said was totally different from the thing that they allegedly meant.

JJ: Kind of weird how that happens. It’s very difficult to . . . you can’t really win an argument with an emotional person. Because when you try to correct yourself, you say, “well, that’s not me. I don’t mean that. I don’t believe that. I never said that, and if you heard it that way, you misunderstood me.” And sometimes they’ll turn around and say, “are you calling me a liar?” (laughter) “No, I’m not calling you a liar, you just misunderstood me.”

And so, a highly evolved person arguing with a very emotional person has a lot of difficulty because of incorrect perception. This is one of the most important places to use correct perception.

Where we have disagreements with another human being, we must perceive them correctly and judge them correctly. Judge them as an honest person, and say, “well, if that’s not what you meant, tell me in your own words what you really meant. ‘Cause this is what I felt that you meant. So tell me what you really meant.” Then if the person will be honest, then you can resolve the conflict.

If the person refuses to let you correct yourself and communicate what you really did mean, then it’s a problem that’s very difficult to resolve. If you have an argument with an emotional person, they do often not want to perceive correctly. The most important part of this key is to desire to perceive correctly – not to desire to perceive in a way that you can win an argument, or that’s to your advantage – but just desire to perceive what is really there. That’s the most important part of the key.

Okay, anything else?

Michael: So there’s a gentleman by the name of Thomas Kuhn, and he’s the person that in the sixties coined the word paradigm. And he studied scientists and a lot of different things about them, but one of the observations that he made was that if scientists had a preconceived idea as to how an experiment would turn out, they really believed this was how it was going to work, that oftentimes they would twist the data to make it fit their belief. And so, if we had a really strong belief – political, religious, personality, whatever . . . if we’re really attached to that, and somebody presents something that doesn’t fit, we’re going to twist it, so it fits. We’ll discount it completely.

And so to understand, I think, the role that perception plays and being willing to step back and say, “maybe I’m right, maybe I’m not. I’m not attached to this outcome. It maybe needs more exploration.” But I found that pretty interesting . . . And I talked to a friend who ran a chemical lab, a PhD in chemistry, and I told him about that. And he goes, “oh yeah, we do that all the time.” “Really? You’re a brilliant scientist and you twist facts?” “Oh yeah, it just happens.”

That was quite an eye-opener. And understanding that, and then you watch political discourses and what people post about this and that, it’s like, it doesn’t matter what the facts are. “I’ll make it fit.”

JJ: Right. And that happens all the time. It’s kind of sad, and that happens in polls too. The polls, they’ll say, “well, the polls show that 80% of people believe this.” But what you have to look at is the question that is asked. Often, they do not tell you how they asked the question, or who they asked the question to. How they ask the question can change the numbers 30-40%.

Like, “do you think we should get out of Afghanistan?” Well, 90% of the people would say yes. You could say, “well, that means Joe Biden did the right thing.” (laughter) But 90% of the people don’t think he did the right thing the way that he did it. So that’s just one way they can askew the polls.

And they do this politically all the time. They’ll ask a poll a certain way, and then they’ll project . . . tell what they think the poll is supposed to tell us. They will askew it, and completely distort it, instead of just telling us what is actually perceived, and telling us the truth about the questions asked and who was asked to.

We have this deception going on all the time, because of incorrect perception and incorrect communication of what is perceived. It creates a big problem for humanity.

Okay, any other comments or questions?

Adam: I was going to say was that when get into discussions or arguments with people, a lot of times we just want to be right, rather than be right. (slow laughter)

Curtis: Like Adam said, we have to let go of wanting to be right. You know, that’s another ‘let go’ thing. You know, I could be right, I could be wrong, but I can’t be attached to being right or wrong. And A Course in Miracles says, “would you rather be right or be happy?”

And sometimes if you’re in an argument . . .

JJ: Some people would rather be right than be happy.

Curtis: Yeah, “I’d rather be right and make you miserable.”

Adam: We have to acknowledge truth where it is, right? Instead of continually trying to push an agenda to be right.

Curtis: Yeah. I’m not attached to being right, to making myself right.

Adam: When someone makes good point, concede and move on.

Curtis: Right, let’s move on to having dinner or something more constructive, like a movie.

JJ: Okay. Yeah?

Shawn: It feels good to acknowledge truth, to state truth. It feels good to be truthful. I was in a couple of situations with police officers, and I didn’t notice at the time that they’re trained to just lie, lie, lie. It’s just what they do all day long. And so . . .

JJ: They’re trained to lie?

Shawn: They’re trained to lie. I mean they do it so well, they must be trained. Because they lied so much to me and I found out they lied to my wife, to try to get me to say something else.

JJ: If they are trying to convict you of a crime, that certainly could be true.

Shawn: They’re trying to get at the truth, and their way of getting at the truth is just to lie to you. Like, “well, you’re wife said this. Did that really happen?” “Well, I didn’t see that.” And so I told the truth. “I didn’t see that. I don’t know what you’re talking about.” They would tell me again. “Well that’s what she said. Are you sure you didn’t see that.” And I said, “I didn’t see that.”

Later, I found out my wife never said that.

JJ: Really?

Shawn: My wife had never said that to them. And in other situations as well, and they may or may not believe you. I think they believe you, but then they lie and say, you know, this that and the other to try to get to the truth. That’s just their way of doing it, I think.

JJ: Yeah, that’s sad when that happens, when they’re trying to convict people of something that they overstep their bounds there.

Okay. Anything else before we wrap it up? We’re going to have Joshua show us the movie Excalibur, and Tyler is going to set it up for us, hopefully.

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Key Three, Right Perception

2021 Gathering, Part Fifteen

JJ: Okay, we’ll go onto the next key. Just cover that quickly here. The next key is the Key of Correct Perception. Now the trouble with the world of perception is the esoteric teachings tell us this world is illusion. So what we perceive is also illusion.

But, on the other hand, perception shouldn’t be discounted for some people who say the world is illusion will discount perception. Perception should not be discounted because correct perception can lead us out of illusion. If we perceive incorrectly, then that takes us deeper into the illusion, and it makes it harder for us to see our way out. So, it’s important that we perceive correctly.

Now, one of the greatest things that teaches us how perception can be diminished and difficult to be accurate, is the game that I mention in my book called Chinese Checkers . . . I think it was called.

Adam: Whispers. Chinese Whispers.

JJ: Chinese Whispers. That’s what it was. Yeah. And I’ve played that before. You get about a dozen people in a circle, and you start with kind of a nonsensical statement, and it goes through the dozen people. We ought to do that here just to see how it works. I will whisper something in someone’s ear. Let’s start with Michael over here. I’ll whisper something in Michael’s ear. And Michael can whisper it to Susan. And we can go around and whisper it to everybody. And then the last person will tell us what he heard.

Now you can only whisper it once. If they can’t understand . . . if they don’t hear it correctly, you can’t say it over again. Okay. You’ve just got to take what you’ve heard and tell it to the next guy. Okay?

Joshua: You better be careful calling it Chinese Whispers these days. (laughter)

Various chatter going on among the group as JJ starts the communication and it continues through the group.

JR is the last person to receive the communication and vocalizes what he heard: “The girl ran over the green grass.”

JJ: Well, that was closer than normal. The original statement was “The cow jumped over the green grass.” (laughter)

More chatter among the group about how the communication was corrupted.

JJ: So anyway, usually it’s more garbled than that. Usually there’s nothing recognizable with the final statement.

Joshua: See, we have soul contact to a degree, JJ, so we’re not easily corruptible. (laughter)

JJ: That would explain it. Well generally there’s nothing recognizable. Usually, the final is really weird, for it just shows that when you perceive something and pass it along, and then the other person takes what you said, and he passes it along, it gets distorted.

Concerning the scriptures they say . . . the nearest we have to the original gospel concerning Jesus, is the twelfth copy. That’s what they’ve figured. Thinking about the twelfth copy you wonder how many changes have happened by scribes copying at twelve different times?

So what happens is the scribes copy it, and some scribes think, “well, you know this doesn’t sound right. Let me clarify this.” And so they’ll change the scripture to make it clarify, or maybe they will write a note into the scripture, above it, for clarification . . . and then the next guy that copies it, puts the note in there as if it is part of the actual scripture.

Like even the Lord’s prayer, they say that uh . . . “thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” What is the last one, “the kingdom and the glory” or something?

Michael: “For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever, Amen.”

JJ: Yes. The very last line, they say, was added later. That’s what the scholars say, and it wasn’t in the original. So, this correct perception is a really important thing for in our personal lives, we have to make sure that we perceive correctly.

Throw the idea of illusion out the window while you’re trying to perfect perception. A lot of teachers will say, “this road is illusion. That’s no way to perceive correctly.” But we can perceive correctly within in the reality we’re in.

One of the best examples of incorrect perception is the courtroom. You’ll have two witnesses that see the same auto accident, and they will give different accounts, especially the guy that caused the accident. Is he going to admit that he was guilty? Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, no, he’s going to maintain that he’s innocent. As a matter of fact, insurance companies tell you, not to admit you did anything wrong, no matter how wrong you think you were.

When things come to trial, you have two or three eye-witnesses, and they all give a little bit different account, but they all saw the same thing. The true reality is they didn’t see three different things. They have three different interpretations of what they saw, based on their feelings.

So it’s important when disciples perceive that they are honest about what they did perceive, because it comes down to personal honesty and integrity. If a person is honest and has high integrity, he will be willing to admit what he actually did perceive.

Now this goes even beyond this when we’re, say, studying or looking for the truth for we perceive on different levels. Normally, we think, well, we just see different things and we disagree about that, and we hear different things, and we disagree about that.

But we also understand different things through an inner perception. This inner perception is higher still. But how we understand things is based largely on where our consciousness is. Is our consciousness centered on the emotional level, or the mental level, or maybe even on the spiritual level.  

If it’s on the emotional level, then how you perceive things with your understanding will disagree with almost everybody because emotionally polarized people generally cannot agree with other emotional people, cannot agree with mental people, and cannot agree with spiritual people.

They’re pretty much in a world of their own, and if they do agree with another emotional person, it’s kind of like a stopped clock being right twice a day, so to speak. In other words, it’s just kind of a coincidence that they happen to agree. Or maybe they just have the same common enemies. Then on the mental level, people can perceive through understanding much more accurately, and on the spiritual level, they can become one. Becoming one on the spiritual level is what we are attempting to do with this group. With this group, we seek to understand each other, to perceive correctly, and to see through the eyes of the soul.

And only by seeing through the eyes of the soul can perception be accurate. Because people are not very honest with themselves – like I said, with a car accident for instance. If you’re the guy that caused the accident, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, you’re going to distort reality, distort perception to your advantage, and the person won’t be a hundred percent honest.

So it’s important with perception, that we are honest about what we perceive and what we remember we perceive. This is very difficult for people to do, but it will lead us from nonreality to reality if we are honest with ourselves. Let us say say you are in a relationship, and you have arguments at different times, and one of the things that you want to perceive is how the person is actually thinking.

How many times have you had an argument with somebody, and they said, “well you said this, and you meant this?” And you said, “no, that not what I meant, and I didn’t really say it that way.” Have you ever had that happen?

Asaph: Many times.

JJ: Mr. Bates there, what kind of a problem have you had with that?

Darren: Well, kind an issue with my wife. (chuckle) She will quote me on something I said, and I’ll say, “no, I didn’t say that,” because I know that’s not something I would say. And so I tell her that maybe I said something different, but she misinterpreted it, or didn’t hear it exactly the same way. Or maybe . . . sometimes it comes down to the meaning of words. We have a different definition of words. So I say something that means something to me and different to her.

JJ: Yeah, oftentimes what happens when you have a conversation with somebody is they will not perceive what you said correctly, they will perceive it the way that they feel that you’re saying it. So you’re having an argument with somebody, and they’ll say, “well, you said this.” And you think, “I didn’t say that. And I didn’t mean that.” When you try to correct them, and they will not accept the correction. Have you had that happen?

Darren: Well, doing that, then they say, “now you’re trying to change what you said, and now you’re lying to me because you’re trying to justify to me.”

JJ: Right, right. The emotional person will try to argue that way. Whereas, what they should do is say, “well, I thought you meant this, but I’m glad you clarified.” They should trust that you are honest, but they won’t. The emotional person wants to believe that you are being deceptive.

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