The Complete Truth
The Reader from my last post continues: It all boils down to subjectivism and relativity in finding the truth. One paradigm is replaced by another. One truth — by a more true truth.
JJ: There is no such thing as a more true truth. If a thing is true then it is true and nothing else is true. If attention is shifted to something else that is true then the first thing is still true.
For instance, if your attention is on 2=2=4 and is shifted to 8+8=16 then 2+2 still equals four and it equals nothing else.
Reader: What is more true: to say that a physical body is connected to astral body by a silver cord or by cigarette smoke? Both are not true. It just our way of interpreting something we do not fully know.
JJ: The truth has nothing to do with interpretation. Either the astral body is connected to the physical by a silver cord or it is not. Either it is composed of cigarette smoke or it is not. There is no grey area for something that is true. A thing or statement is either true or false. If two statements contradict then both cannot be true. Either one is true and one is false or they are both false.
Reader: However there exist complete truths. A complete truth always takes place if you create something and fully master and control it.
JJ: I think you are using the wrong word in what you are trying to say. There exists complete knowledge of various principles, ideas, concepts etc. This complete knowledge may be composed of thousands of truths and each truth is a complete piece of data.
Reader: For example, Euclid made his geometry based on several axioms. In that system the sum of the angles of a triangle is always 180 degrees. This is an absolute truth. He created it by definition. We accept it if we accept the Euclidian system altogether.
JJ: Because a truth is defined within a system does not mean the truth is changeable or relative. If we divided the circle into 180 degrees instead of 360 then the angles of his triangle would be 90 degrees rather than 180 and the truth of his equations would still be the same ratios. Pi is 3.14 in any system.
Similarly, if we write 2+2=4 in Spanish nothing changes. Just because we use different words does not change the equation or the truth.
This is really basic reasoning if you think of it. Sometimes we should stay with what we learned in the third grade.
Reader: But when it comes to seeking for the truth in something broader — the quest for truth becomes a quest for refining models in one’s minds.
JJ: This does not apply to me. There are plenty of models that make our current reality and as I seek for truth, I define the truths I see using the models already available. No need to reinvent the wheel and create new ones. Instead of refining a model I seek to refine my understanding of what is and express it within the current model.
The reader quotes LWK: “Whatever one knows that conforms with what is, is true.”
Reader: This is far better definition than JJ gave. It has two very important words: “one knows”.
JJ: The definition I gave was not mine but the dictionary. The one given by lwk is more concise and we both agree is a good one.
Reader: If JJ got a more sensitive radio receiver or a receiver with shortwave bands and explored more radio stations, he could have found that there exists another radio station even better than his current favorite 670 KHz.
JJ: If I found a thousand stations I like better than my current favorite the truth would not be changed. The truth is this: as of this day, Aug 4, 2013 on planet earth this is my favorite station. Changing my mind tomorrow does not alter the truth of today. You should read my past posts about points of truth in time and space. They are not relative and do not change. It is true that what I like may change, but what I like at a point in time and space does not. I didn’t like peas as a kid and now I do. The truth that I didn’t like peas as a kid will be true for all eternity. That truth or any other truth does not change and you cannot tell me one that does. It is impossible for truth to change. Because our understanding changes does not mean that truth changes. If what we believe to be true changes this does not cause truth to change. The truth is still true.
The fact that circumstances change does not mean the truth changes. It only means circumstances change. In fact, it is a truth that change is always occurring in the worlds of form.
Reader: I would be more cautious and paraphrase your “The Truth shall set you Free” into:
“Replacing illusions with better illusions is setting you freer and making you feel happier.”
JJ: It is true that we all have illusions to unravel and one illusion is often replaced with another illusion that contains more truth than the old one. None of us knows all truth but all of us know many things that are true. Putting the pieces we call truth together so an accurate picture of reality is formed is the great quest.
LWK: Maybe they ought to add a new logical fallacy to the list. You could call it:
The argument from definition
Basic idea is when a person tries to define a word so that only her conclusion is “logical.”
JJ: Good point. Many do define words in their own way making any other conclusion other than their own valid in their minds.
I always just go by the dictionary definition unless some original new meaning is needed which is rare indeed.
As far as truth goes 99% of the people would accept as truth that my favorite station is what I honestly declare it to be. Our friend is defining truth to be the ultimate cause behind all things that can never be understood by us. Since it cannot be understood by us then it does not exist to our consciousness. if it does not exist to our consciousness then it does not exist for us. If truth does not exist then it is useless to talk about a subject that is a no thing.
An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn’t happen. – Earl Wilson
Aug 3, 2013
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