Allan’s Page #2

Post #1

Shalom JJ:

 

It is probably not fare for you to be in this forum which is Mystic-based, and Spiritual-Gnostic.   What you have in the below is theory and philosophical — in that, it is in no manner relevant to the self.   And so long as you and the members of your forum continue to embrace the Eastern paradigm of the soul entering the body from life to life, then you cannot demonstrate where your philosophy is relevant to the Gnostic reality of Know Thyself.   Which of course is paramount to comprehending the spiritual meaning of the Gospel of Thomas and other early Gospel teachings an scriptures.   Such statements made by WomanOfOz where she writes that  the soul submerges into the lower physical realms is from a purely Eastern perspective that promotes a linear concept of Time.

 

So that everyone in this forum knows the basis for you below defense of your idea of Time, I have copied the original series of posts below yours.   It might also do well to point out that the person you portray as Elizabeth is your wife — and the person you portray as John is supposed to be the same person historically known as the disciple John who I believe was a bell-ringer for the Salvation Army, and you used to meet him in Denny’s.

 

As can be seen in the below, my original post was in reply to Jim who accused me of resurrecting all my present knowledge-base by accessing my past lives — in which I attempted to explain that all the previous lives my soul-self lived as were not in the past — but they presently dwell within the Soul Mind-Matrix.   Jim used the term amnesia as applying to the person in this life who does not remember his previous lives when he lived in other bodies — which Eastern teachings portray as the soul passing through the cloud of forgetfulness and not being able to recall their previous lives.   In contradistinction, I maintain that Gospel of Thomas saying 84 is correct, and each life is a new soul-generated image — and therefore, the Eastern concept of soul-amnesia is incorrect — and since all the previous images that did not “manifest” continue to dwell in the Soul Mind-Matrix, then when I communicated with them, I was communicating with these previous personalities in the present.   And I quoted Joseph Smith who evidently knew more than Jim’s guru and yogi friends.

 

One of the vast differences between what you have written as a demonstration of your acceptance of Time in a non-linear manner, is that the links and associated concepts that I present are from a personal and soul-perspective that has to do with the self — as in Know Thyself.  In contradistinction, what you have written is theoretical from the perspective of how you imaging Time from the perception of the vision of God.  And even your portrayal of Elizabeth as speaking to you from the future when she is then Aluma-EL, is from the perspective of Time — in that, you portray Elizabeth as being some other personality other than Elizabeth in the future — rather than Aluma-EL being  an image generated by Elizabeth’s higher soul-self — with Elizabeth continuing to dwell in the Soul Mind-Matrix.  .

 

Now if you don’t agree with Jim’s assessment with respect to the soul entering into the body and being stricken with a form of soul-amnesia, then perhaps you should clarify this in your forum.   If you want to further discuss Time — and personalities transcending Time and coming into the present — then it is one of my favorite subjects.

 

Allan

 

From: “jjdewey@gmail.com [The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene]” <The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene@yahoogroups.com>
To: The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 5:08 PM
Subject: [The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene] On Time

 

 

Since Judy and Allan have been accusing me of being in ignorance because of some “linear” concept of time that I am supposed to be stuck into believing I thought I would clarify my views by posting a few things I have written about the subject. Allan has an excuse or misunderstanding me for he hasn’t read much of my material but I am somewhat perplexed that Judy is stereotyping me since she has read most of my writings.

 

Here are some comments on time from my book The Molecular Relationship:

 

For the rest of the article go HERE

 

 

 

Post #2

Shalom JJ:

 

Are you capable of discussing a foundational paradigm?   And the fact that if the foundational paradigm is in error, then everything built upon that paradigm is also flawed?   While I have many times endeavored to explain what I find flawed in the Eastern paradigm of thinking on the higher reality of the soul, because I don’t agree with the Eastern foundational paradigm, most of what they write about the soul is equally in error.

 

Ra would not disagree with me, because he has personally experienced the higher reality of the soul, and his experiences are parallel to mine.   Do you therefore find fault with Ra’s experiences?   Or the experiences of others who have had parallel perceptions that are the same as ours?   Which provokes the question: Are we allowed to disagree with Bailey and Blavatsky?   Or do you consider their books to be the bottom line of absolute truth that no one can disagree with?

 

I have many times stated that the Eastern path is different than the Western which is Gnostic.   Am I allowed to have this position?   Or do I need your permission to present my positions?   All of which I explain in great depth.   If we are going to have these constructive conversations, we have to first know if we are allowed to disagree with you?   With Bailey and Blavatsky?   Or, with the Eastern mindset?

 

 

Post #3 from One2 to Allan

Re: [Keysters] Re: Dealing with Accusations

View Source

“…….especially if you (WomanOfOz) perceive the reality of the soul differently than the author (Allan).”

 

I have to ask you (Allan), why you wrote “differently than the author (Allan)”? rather than write “differently than the author (me)”.

 

When you write this sentence like this, then it sounds like someone else is writing to me, because you had to point out your name in brackets as Allan, rather than just put “me”, because we know that you are the Author of these writings.  So why talk like you are the 3rd person in the story?

 

“Using the power of empathetic-projection — i.e., suspending one’s own self and projecting into the mind of another person in the attempt to see and understand from their perspective — I can see where you conclude that I am an idiot and a fool.   And in my evaluation of my…..”

 

Empathetic-projection?   Oh you mean “telepathic”…….Guess what?  You are incorrect again, because if you really got into my thoughts, all you would hear would be silence or some song playing.

 

I do not conclude that you are an idiot or fool.   In fact, I think you are quite clever and intelligent.   But I do conclude that you like to “fool” others with your double speak, and that is different to thinking that you are a fool, because I do not think such thoughts about you at all.  If you were really using telepathy, then you would know that, but many of my thoughts come from higher than my brain.  My brain doesn’t function the same way as most normal people’s brain, meaning my thoughts are less involved with my brain and visa versa.

 

Actually I am quite open to Eastern and Western teachings and will study both and I am not prejudice against either of these teachings, as long as they hold Truth within them etc.  What is your opinion of Buddha?

 

I do not understand what you mean by 12 spheres of mind?   We are living in the Universe of 7, so I can only conclude that you are referring to the consciousness of the 12 Disciples, as a single unit of 12(rather than 24 human units)?

 

Let me use your quotation for example and see what I can make of it:

 

The One truth has many sides, and one sees one side only, another, and some see more than others, according as it is given to them.  Behold this crystal; how the one light is manifest in twelve faces, yea four times twelve, and each face reflects one ray of light, and one regards one face, and another, another, but it is the one crystal, and the one light that shines in all.” 

 

I believe that this is talking about the Ancient of Days Crystal (Crown Chakra).  Now this one light from the Most High is reflected, and the one light is manifest in twelve faces (12 Disciples).  

 

“yea four times twelve”……which equals 48 and 4 + 8 = 12 again.  “One ray of light” is talking about the 7 Rays which manifest on and through Earth, and each Ray’s soul contains a different energy of Light e.g. Ray 4 Harmony through Conflict,  Ray 2…..Love/Wisdom etc etc.

 

So in your 12 spheres of Mind……..how do you explain the part about the 4 x 12?

 

We are all reflections of the One………symbolic of the Crystal and Light, and therefore each reflection can contain a ray of light and as each ray of light grows in learning Truth then the many sides start to become joined again. If there are 12 faces/sides on that Crystal and it reflected outwards 4 times, then each face reflects one of the attributes of the Rays of Light (because the first 3 Rays are the major Rays, and the four are the sub rays).

 

Anyway, you won’t understand what I am writing because it may be too Eastern or Western in its flavor?

 

I deliberately used the word “mumbo jumbo” to get your attention, because obviously this word upsets you and has made you emotionally distressed about my use of this word.  Therefore, I have to ask you why this word is like an emotional trigger point for you?  Is it because you know deep down that it is true?   If your teachings were less glittery and more digestible, and written more clearly, then maybe it might be easier for people to read.  For this word to upset you this much, then it means that you are consciously aware, that there may be some truth in what I say, and this has caused you upset.   If there was no truth in what I said, then you would not be affected by this word as much as you have, and you are putting words into my mouth, by trying to make it appear that I have called you a fool or idiot when I have never used these types of words towards you. 

 

However, I am only stating what I see in your writings, just as you have stated many times what you see (in us and JJ).

 

 

Post #4 Oct 16, 2014

Re: [Keysters] Re: Allan’s Post

Shalom JJ:
The resources on http://TheConsecratedLife.com all disagree with you.   Even the early critics of the Ebionite Nazirenes acknowledged that they were vegetarians — i.e., Epiphanius states: “Eating meat is abominable to them….” (Panarion, 19:28-30).   There is an important reason why being a vegetarian was ultra-important to the original teachings of TheWay.   In like manner, there was an important reason why being a vegetarian was important to my own higher soul-self.   As well as that of my wife and others.
Now, if you don’t want to agree with what has been presented, that is your choice.   But, it is apparent in your lack of understanding with respect to the higher reality of the soul, the spiritual meaning of the scriptures, and the very carnal understanding of the realities of this world that you embrace.   The fact that you ignore even your own AAB readings — as well as those sources on the above link — means that you will reject whatever does not conform to your mindset and lifestyle.   
Ra attempted to convey to you his own experiences even before he met me, and you reject his witness.   Others have in like manner had parallel experiences, yet you attempt to portray them as my followers.   You do this because the truth and facts are inconvenient to you.   This is your right.   But your lack of understanding of the higher realities of the soul and the body of important esoteric wisdom and knowledge, is directly attributable to your rejection of these essential truths.   
Personally, I agree with Alice Bailey that one must be a vegetarian and seeker of truth for at least ten (10) years, to be able to access the Higher Knowledge. In your own words: “I eat meat and drink some wine to keep me grounded and focused where I need to be at present” — and you have succeeded in being grounded.   But don’t for a minute think that a person who is grounded can accomplish what one who is not grounded can.
Allan
Responding to:


From: “jjdewey@gmail.com [Keysters]” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
To: Keysters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 1:32 PM
Subject: [Keysters] Re: Allan’s Post

JJ
In your dreams. You seem to think that if you say a thing with no proof that is enough for proof for your followers.  Maybe it is.
You do not need  to be a vegetarian to discern the truth of higher realities or to ascend to the formless worlds to discern principles. Vegetarianism increases sensitivity for those who have not mastered the emotional body and helps them out and makes reading the akashic records easier as AAB says. Once the emotions are mastered vegetarianism isn’t a big deal as it is important to be a vegetarian as you are in the process of controlling them.  I have been a vegetarian – raw foods diet – for part of my life and know the difference.  I can tell the earthy pull from a meat diet but have power to override it, so my only reason to switch to vegetarian diet now and then is my health. Eating some meat helps keep me grounded in this physical reality which is important for me at the moment.
One size does not fit all as  some literalists here seem to think.
Allan:
The time has come for you to repent of your evil ways and mindset.
JJ
Really, Allan.  Can you be in any greater violation of Jesus’ command on judgment than this?
Since you keep bring up this subject I will soon make a more thorough post on diet & spirituality.

Post # 5

Re: [Keysters] Re: Allan’s Post

 

The resources on http://TheConsecratedLife.com all disagree with you.   Even the early critics of the Ebionite Nazirenes acknowledged that they were vegetarians — i.e., Epiphanius states: “Eating meat is abominable to them….” (Panarion, 19:28-30).   There is an important reason why being a vegetarian was ultra-important to the original teachings of TheWay.   In like manner, there was an important reason why being a vegetarian was important to my own higher soul-self.   As well as that of my wife and others.

 

Now, if you don’t want to agree with what has been presented, that is your choice.   But, it is apparent in your lack of understanding with respect to the higher reality of the soul, the spiritual meaning of the scriptures, and the very carnal understanding of the realities of this world that you embrace.   The fact that you ignore even your own AAB readings — as well as those sources on the above link — means that you will reject whatever does not conform to your mindset and lifestyle.

 

Ra attempted to convey to you his own experiences even before he met me, and you reject his witness.   Others have in like manner had parallel experiences, yet you attempt to portray them as my followers.   You do this because the truth and facts are inconvenient to you.   This is your right.   But your lack of understanding of the higher realities of the soul and the body of important esoteric wisdom and knowledge, is directly attributable to your rejection of these essential truths.

 

Personally, I agree with Alice Bailey that one must be a vegetarian and seeker of truth for at least ten (10) years, to be able to access the Higher Knowledge. In your own words: “I eat meat and drink some wine to keep me grounded and focused where I need to be at present” — and you have succeeded in being grounded.   But don’t for a minute think that a person who is grounded can accomplish what one who is not grounded can.

 

Allan

 

From: “jjdewey@gmail.com [Keysters]” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
To: Keysters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 1:32 PM
Subject: [Keysters] Re: Allan’s Post

 

 

JJ

In your dreams. You seem to think that if you say a thing with no proof that is enough for proof for your followers.  Maybe it is.

 

You do not need  to be a vegetarian to discern the truth of higher realities or to ascend to the formless worlds to discern principles. Vegetarianism increases sensitivity for those who have not mastered the emotional body and helps them out and makes reading the akashic records easier as AAB says. Once the emotions are mastered vegetarianism isn’t a big deal as it is important to be a vegetarian as you are in the process of controlling them.  I have been a vegetarian – raw foods diet – for part of my life and know the difference.  I can tell the earthy pull from a meat diet but have power to override it, so my only reason to switch to vegetarian diet now and then is my health. Eating some meat helps keep me grounded in this physical reality which is important for me at the moment.

 

One size does not fit all as  some literalists here seem to think.

 

Allan:

The time has come for you to repent of your evil ways and mindset.

 

JJ

Really, Allan.  Can you be in any greater violation of Jesus’ command on judgment than this?

 

Since you keep bring up this subject I will soon make a more thorough post on diet & spirituality.

 

 

Post 6

Re: [Keysters] Allan’s Post

View Source

Shalom Seekers:

 

One thing that is consistent with JJ is the fact that no matter how many times you state a principle or truth to him, he will ignore or fail to understand what you are saying — and continue to repeat the same old rhetoric.   No matter how many times I have attempted to explain to JJ that BY DIVINE DESIGN, not only does everyone see a different message in the scriptures — but the fact is that they are supposed to see a different message in the scriptures — and when the Key of Knowledge is properly utilized, what is presented in the scriptures is not only a personal meaning to the reader — but a blueprint of the workings of their own mind.   On at least a half dozen different instances I have explained to JJ why it is stated in the Homilies that NO ONE should (1) attempt to decipher the meaning from the perspective of organic human reasoning; (2) and that NO ONE should decipher the meaning of the scriptures by taking an external interpretation — i.e., quoting Peter in the Homilies: “…therefore great care is to be taken, that when the law of God is read, it be not read according to the understanding of our own mind. For there are many sayings in the divine Scriptures which can be drawn to that sense which every one has preconceived for himself; and this ought not to be done. For you ought not to seek a foreign and extraneous sense, which you have brought from without”.   And as many times as I have discussed this reality of scripture with JJ, he can’t seem to grasp its principles.

 

What I personally see in the Gospel of Thomas, is very different than any of the interpretations supplied by his forum members.   Yet, JJ can’t grasp the principle that the purpose of the scriptures is to bring about and initiate the process of self-discovery — and if I provide the meaning that I see, then I would negate the very purpose and objective of the scriptures.   And while I explained this to JJ, he does not seem capable of comprehending what I am attempting to convey to him.   So, like a parrot (sorry, Socrates, Cosmo and Zeus who are my parrots),  JJ keeps parroting the same words without ever understanding the reason I would not provide his forum with my interpretation of the Gospel of Thomas — or, why what I see in the scriptures is not the same as what him and his forum members see.   And since the scriptures are in fact a catalyst for self-discovery, then if I were to provide my interpretation, then I would be robbing his forum members of the means to bring about that condition to Know Thyself.

 

While these concepts are totally new to JJ, he will continue to parrot the rhetoric that I have nothing new to say.  I could discuss the nature of scriptures with those who were willing to consider what I say, for at least a week straight.   The objective of the scriptures is to Know Thyself — as stated in the Gospel of Thomas: But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty”

 

Allan

 

 

From: “jjdewey@gmail.com [Keysters]” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
To: Keysters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Keysters] Allan’s Post

 

 

He was responding to something I said and on thinking about it perhaps I should cover the subject of diet and spirituality some more.  Then, for the first time, Allan can actually post on topic. But, of course, he also expressed a lot of interest on the Gospel of Thomas but didn’t participate at all on that one.

 

The one benefit of critics like Allan is they often bring up subjects that need greater explanation.

 

Anyway, he made another post and since only a few would be interested in reading it I posted it on his outer darkness web page.  It is Post #4

 

Post #7

Spiritual Sanctuary – Re: Allan’s Post
Shalom Judy:
To a seeker, the quotation of Alice Bailey that you have presented in the below is of the utmost importance.   Not only that, but it confirms the statements of Charles Fillmore as quoted at http://ebionite.com/vegetarian.htm#unity (quoting):
I have in years of experiment tested the effect in mind and body of meat-eating and non-meat-eating, and I feel that I am more competent to judge of the effects than one who theorizes about the question.
Some sixteen years ago [i. e., 1887] when I began the study of Truth I was told that it made no difference what I ate if I was in the right thought. This seemed to prove true up to a certain point in my experience. While my spiritual development was confined to the conscious mind there seemed no special need of food discrimination. But gradually a new phase set in. I found that I was having vibrations in the sympathetic nerve centers — the subconscious mind was being quickened, and I was becoming a conscious vital battery. The vital currents gradually grew stronger and stronger until I could hardly control them. Appetite, passion, emotion, etc., were greatly increased. Then my prayers for guidance were answered and a system of communication set up with the higher realms of consciousness. I was shown that the food that entered the organism had to pass through a process of regeneration every day before it was in condition to be built into the new body of Christ. Just how to carry on this regenerative process in the various subconscious centers was also shown, and here is where I discerned the effects of food in body building.
The vitalizing element in food is contained in the cell, which may be termed a mind battery vibrating with intelligence, force, and substance. These elements are present in the living cell — dead cells are those in which intelligence and force have withdrawn and inanimate substance only remains. Man appropriates these cells and they become part of his consciousness according to his capacity to use them. Those who have not developed the capacity to consciously regenerate the cells get but a small part of their energies. (First published in the October 1903 issue of Unity Magazine, Volume 19, number 4)
On the process of transforming the body in order to enable it to begin to accommodate man’s innate higher soul and spiritual natures, Charles Fillmore wrote: “I can say about flesh eating that the Spirit has shown me repeatedly that I could not refine my body and make it a harmonious instrument for the soul, so long as I continued to fill it with the cells of dead animals” (The Vegetarian, May, 1920).   And thus, when Yeshua/Jesus states in the Gospel of the Nazirenes (see Gospel) “And again that one asked, If anyone comes to us who eats flesh and drinks strong drink, how shall we receive them? And Yeshua said to him, Let such a person abide in the outer court until they cleanse themselves from these grosser evils; for till they perceive, and repent of these, they are not fit to receive the higher mysteries.” — it is not that the knowledge of the Higher Mysteries are being held back — but rather, that those areas of the mind that vibrate at the higher frequencies and are able to receive and manifest the knowledge of Higher Mysteries, remains undeveloped in those people who consume a meat-based diet.   And while Charles Fillmore was a man of extraordinary faith and belief, he could in no manner begin to move onto a higher plane of understanding and spirituality, untile he first ceased to fill his body with the flesh of slain beasts.   Again, as stated in the Gospel of the Nazirenes: And Yeshua said to them, “They, whose hands are stained with blood, or whose mouths are defiled with flesh, or they who partake of benefits which are gotten by wronging one of God’s creatures, cannot be righteous; nor can they touch holy things, or teach the mysteries of the kingdom.”
Is the words of Charles Fillmore any different than those of Alice Bailey who writes that: The building in of matter of the higher subplanes and the elimination of the lower and coarser matter. This is needed because it is impossible for those with coarse bodies to contact high vibration. It is impossible for the Ego to transmit the higher knowledge and guidance through a coarse physical body. It is impossible for the loftier currents of thought to impact the little evolved physical brain. Hence the refinement of the physical body is an essential.
While Alice Bailey states that the period of time necessary for this transformation to be brought about is ten (10) years, my own higher soul-self puts the time-period as seven (7) years.  But more important is the fact that this necessary diet should have been an integral part of JJ’s teachings with respect to creating the environment within the seekers own mind and being that will enable those he teachers to begin to comprehend the higher esoteric knowledge.   And when you add to Bailey and Fillmore the teachings of the Ebionite Nazirene disciples of Jesus as set forth at http://TheConsecratedLife.com , there is simply no way that either JJ or his followers could comprehend the higher reality of the soul and the Mysteries of the Kingdom without first making serious changes in their daily lives.   
Admittedly, being a vegetarian in an uber-meat eating culture is not easy.   But such is the realities of life.   My wife and I have been strict vegetarians — never once consuming dead flesh — for nearly 40 years.   We have eight (8) children who we raised vegetarian — and with the exception of two of them, they were all homeschooled.   Our initial diet was dictated directly by our higher soul-selves: No dead flesh.  No white refined flour, sugar or rice.  No processed foods — especially those containing food-coloring, preservatives, additives or chemicals.  And we were to cleanse the inside of the body with pure distilled/RO water.    We were told to eat raw once a day.  Then there was the Edgar Cayce apple-diet — as well as other colon and inner cleansing.      
JJ’s concept of a group of people working together to manifest the necessary spiritual environment — while not exactly parallel to my own which I have written about at great length in the posts in the Library (seehttps://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NazireneLibrary/info ) — should be the main priority of the people in both forums.   As a spiritual community of seekers, we should be able to grow our own food — support ourselves without having to be dependent upon the culture of this world — and we should provide a Spiritual Sanctuary where sincere seekers can come and embrace the healing in the environment that is set apart from the ways and thinking of this world.   
We must seek to become the Light that we desire to see in the world.   
Allan

From: “judesr1@yahoo.com [The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene]” <The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene@yahoogroups.com>
To: The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 10:53 PM
Subject: [The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene] Re: [Keysters] Re: Allan’s Post




JJ, You said:
“That is NOT what she said. You keep following this pattern of saying me, AAB or someone else says something they did not say.”
Shalom Allan,
Here is an excerpt from AAB that confirms your and Dina’s statements. Vegetarianism as a catalyst to reach the higher subplanes which would include the INTUITIVE PLANE.
The Training of the Physical Body

This involves certain definite requirements:

The building in of matter of the higher subplanes and the elimination of the lower and coarser matter. This is needed because it is impossible for those with coarse bodies to contact high vibration. It is impossible for the Ego to transmit the higher knowledge and guidance through a coarse physical body. It is impossible for the loftier currents of thought to impact the little evolved physical brain. Hence the refinement of the physical body is an essential. It is effected in various ways, all of them reasonable and utilitarian.
  • By pure food. This involves a vegetarian diet, chosen with wise discrimination; it requires the eating of only those vegetables and fruits that vitalize. Careful judgment shown in the choice of food, wise refraining from too heavy eating, and a little pure good food perfectly assimilated are all that a disciple requires. You ask what foods? Milk, honey, whole wheat bread, all the vegetables that contact the sun, oranges (above all, oranges), bananas, raisins, nuts, some potatoes, unpolished rice, and may I again reiterate, just as much of all the above as to insure activity.
  • By cleanliness. Much use of water, externally and internally, is vitally required.
  • By sleep. This should be always between the hours of ten in the evening and five in the morning, and as much as possible out of doors.
  • By sunshine. Contact with the sun should be much sought after, and the vitalization that comes through its rays. The sun kills all germs and frees from disease.
Excerpt is from Letters on Occult Meditation, by AA Bailey, Lucis Publishing
-Judy


—In The_Way_of_the_disciple_of_the_Nazirene@yahoogroups.com, <jjdewey@…> wrote :

Allan:

Personally, I agree with Alice Bailey that one must be a vegetarian and seeker of truth for at least ten (10) years, to be able to access the Higher Knowledge.
JJ
That is NOT what she said. You keep following this pattern of saying me, AAB or someone else says something they did not say.

Post #8

Scripture Interpretation – Re: Allan’s Page
Shalom Johann:
Your interpretation of my words is not what I am attempting to convey.   The objective and purpose of the scriptures is to initiate the process of mental-expansion and higher enlightened spiritual attainment.   Therefore, the scriptures must become a mirror that acts as a catalyst for the reader who is in pursuit of self-knowledge.   Each person often sees a different message — a different meaning — when they read the scriptures.   And this is important for the reader in pursuit of self-knowledge.   
Each person exists under different Laws — they enter into this life with vastly different past-life experiences and Spiritual DNA derived from their higher soul-self — and what they perceive in the scriptures, is important for them in their process of mental and spiritual development.   The only rule with respect to using the scriptures as the Key of Knowledge ( http://KeyOfKnowledge.org ), is that all interpretations must be internalized — i.e., turned within one’s own mind and being.   And this is why such emphasis is placed upon the knowledge of what can be called the Cosmology of Mind and Being — and the fact that what each person sees when they look at the scriptures, is in fact that pattern and reality of their own self. Therefore, the scriptures must be understood as a means to bring about one’s own self-discovery in the process of coming to Know Thyself.   
What I see in the scriptures, will be very different than what someone else sees — similar to looking into a mirror.   The only right interpretation, is the unique reflection of self that you see.   The objective is to begin to see more — and this can only be accomplished when you begin to develop the Intuitive spheres of mind that have the ability to look inwardly.   What does the twelve disciples represent within your own mind?   The Jews?   Moses? Jesus?   Mary?   And every other person, place, thing, event, or portrayed reality that you find in the scriptures.   The more enlightened a person becomes, the more they recognize that from the reality of the divine holographic pattern, whatever exits in the outer world, not only exists in the inner world — and your own thoughts and perception is the product of your own inner condition that you must seek to understand.   Again, perhaps the best statement of this reality is expressed in the Delphic Oracle in the words: “Heed these words, you who wish to probe the depths of Nature: If you do not find within your Self that which you seek, neither will you find it outside.  If you ignore the wonders of your own House, how do you expect to find other wonders?  In you is hidden the Treasure of Treasures.  Know Thyself and you will know the Universe and the Gods.”    Which provokes the question: How can it even be stated: “If you do not find within your Self that which you seek, neither will you find it outside”??? 
If I tell you what I see in the scriptures, then I would be robbing you of the reflective-mirror intended to bring about your own self-discovery and eventual enlightenment.   Let me repeat a statement that the members of my forum have heard countless times: The higher soul-self (or True Self) of the most ignorant person walking the face of the earth, knows infinitely more than all the wisdom and knowledge that is contained in all the Libraries and books the world over.   Which means that the only requirement with respect to the knowledge of all the mysteries of this life, is to Know Thyself.  The objective of the scriptures is therefore an oracle of reflective self-knowledge.   One of the interpretations of the second saying of the Gospel of Thomas is: Jesus says: “Let him who seeks cease not to seek until he finds: when he finds he will be astonished; and when he is astonished he will wonder, and will reign over the universe!”    Holographically, the universe that is portrayed is the universe that exists within your own self.   And this is why when the Key of Knowledge is properly applied, no interpretation of the scriptures portrays any person, place, thing or event as being outside of your own mind and being.       
Allan
————————————————————————————————————————————–
From: “johannarnars@simnet.is [Keysters]” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
To: Keysters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:16 AM
Subject: [Keysters] Re: Allan’s Page
Just a few words:
“No matter how many times I have attempted to explain to JJ that BY DIVINE DESIGN, not only does everyone see a different message in the scriptures — but the fact is that they are supposed to see a different message in the scriptures — and when the Key of Knowledge is properly utilized, what is presented in the scriptures is not only a personal meaning to the reader — but a blueprint of the workings of their own mind.”
“JJ keeps parroting the same words without ever understanding the reason I would not provide his forum with my interpretation of the Gospel of Thomas — or, why what I see in the scriptures is not the same as what him and his forum members see.   And since the scriptures are in fact a catalyst for self-discovery, then if I were to provide my interpretation, then I would be robbing his forum members of the means to bring about that condition to Know Thyself.”
We see what we see out of Thomas and Allan sees what he sees and yet our way is the wrong
way and his is the right way and therefore Allan destroys his own words.
We see what we see through our own minds and we have a right to do that but according to him
we are not allowed to, not allowed to know ourself through our own minds.
This does not add up, plain and simple.
What do you say to something like that, really?

 

 

 

Allan’s Page

Post #1

nazirene <allan.cronshaw@nazirene.org>3:43 PM
Re: [Keysters] Fwd: [ChristianReincarnation] The Cosmology Of Mind And Being
View Source
Shalom Jim:

The posts and replies are in the forum history — and anyone is able to seek out and either verify your statements, or see the truth as I have presented it. Actually, I like people such as yourself — because you stimulate discussion into areas that I don’t normally write on. As stated, you assisted me in the writing of The Way Of The Monk ( http://TheThreeLies.com#monk ) — and I even thanked you for the input you supplied. Further, many of the more in-depth explanations of the differences between the teachings of TheWay and those of the East are in the Library — and since you supplied the input, you should be given the credit for enabling me to write these in-depth explanations and explorations. These posts are there for anyone to see in the Library. Therefore, when you make the claim that you were not supplied in-depth explanations, the truth is that the explanations did not confirm what you demanded to hear, and were not in harmony with those who walk the Eastern path — and therefore you did not see these very Gnostic concepts as being integral to your thinking. And since the original teachings of TheWay are the purist of Gnostic teachings, it is perfectly understandable why you did not agree with what was presented to you. And from my perception, this is a good thing — because the original teachings of TheWay has very little in common with Eastern gurus and yogi’s But since you approach all difference of spiritual paths in the manner of a fire and brimstone preacher, that we have differences is perfectly understandable. The proof that in-depth explanations were provided to you is in the Library. That you do not agree with the teachings that were presented to you, is because of the difference between the East and Western Spirituality and Gnosticism. That you do not comprehend these higher spiritual teachings, is because of the path that you are on.

Allan

From: “Jim Sutherland isydopen@yahoo.com [Keysters]” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
To: “Keysters@yahoogroups.com” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:21 PM
Subject: [Keysters] Fwd: [ChristianReincarnation] The Cosmology Of Mind And Being
Hi JJ and Keysters,

These exchanges were pretty normal, friendly back and forth questions and answers before Allan started running out of answers to my friendly, but curious questions. He had not started calling me an old cranky man that did not take my Meds yet. Also notice the kitty who was getting getting lost in Allan’s sand box. No one should blame either me, kitty, or even the Brown Brothers for taking advantage of asking, and Expecting, valid Spiritual answers to simple questions from the very brother of The Historical Jesus Christ should we?

Enjoy, …….or not.

Jim

 

 

Post #2

nazirene <allan.cronshaw@nazirene.org>2:54 PM
Re: [Keysters] Playing the flute of the soul
View Source
Shalom Jim:

My writings were never intended to be written for someone such as yourself to understand — after all, you are of an entirely different mindset, as well as the path you are traveling on. You have come to the Nazirene Disciple forum promoting your Eastern path — a path that I neither support, nor have anything to do with. And while I have acknowledged to you that it is a valid path, it is not the one which is associated with the historical man Yeshua and TheWay. And while you are welcome to walk your path, I am not a follower of your path. Where you were a fire and brimstone Evangelist preacher, now you have merely switched to a new paradigm, preaching your Eastern dogma. That is fine. Perhaps that is the path you are supposed to be on. This is not for me to say. I reach those who are supposed to be reached by what I write. Moreover, neither is it surprising that Allen Brown does not understand what I write.

The forum membership portrayed you as a cranky old man who was off his meds — and this is perhaps easily demonstrated in the fact that I just did a search on your phrase Ananthama, and there is not a single post in the Christian Reincarnation forum where you are associated with that word. And anyone is free to join that forum and search the forum history for posts which would confirm what you promote. In a forum discussion, you have the tendency to get unhinged when you are opposed by people who do not agree with you — just like a fire and brimstone preacher when you tell them that the Gospel they preach has been interpolated with Roman Paganism. In fact, the last time you returned to the forum, the membership was concerned that you were becoming violent. And anyone is free to join the forum and research the posts for themselves. In view of the fact that you live not to far from me, the forum members were concerned for my safety.

Allan

From: “Jim Sutherland isydopen@yahoo.com [Keysters]” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
To: “Keysters@yahoogroups.com” <Keysters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Keysters] Playing the flute of the soul
The only problem with any new visiter visiting Allan’s Nazarine Library, he rarely posts the exchanges leading up to his Diatribes and Ananthamas rebuking the questioners. A few of my “basic” questions, comments, and rebuttals might be in a few posts, but most of them are not there, so would paint a one sided Picture, like the Zen Koan, “One Hand Clapping.”

At least, any Rational person with any interest in any sort of Religious or spiritual topics can go to either JJ’s free read sites, or his books, and even my little obscure blog and read any thing presented there. Most rational seekers will not feel insulted, or rebuked, or made to feel depressed.

But, every single seeker I have ever sent over to read Allan’s web pages report exactly, what every single KOK member reports, ( except Judy) after they have departed Allan’s Rabbit Holes of Mazes that always leeds a reader back to the Starting point with out offering any way out of the entrapment. Exactly as Allen Brown stated Allan’s Mazes have effected him over all of the years he has gone back there.

Cheers,
Jim

Forum Conflict #1

Judy’s Post #1

Dan I think she has probably inadvertently learned this socially detrimental coping mechanism of using vicious vindictive verbal abuse to intimidate others into giving in her primarily because no one has taught her different by standing up to her bullying. Giving in is just easier and less painful than standing up and being subject to escalating abuse.

Judy How untrue.   I am very successful in business and if I was such a horrible person then how could I be a valued and well-paid professional in a multi-billion dollar corporation?  I am well-spoken and professional with people.  I know out-of-line and off-the-wall comments when I hear them and witness it.  You can try to utilize all the damage-control you want on this to make your selves look innocent and harmless  but I am not fooled and nor are my friends here.   I was plainly describing how I saw you and Larry’s unproven and undocumented comments about women.  Everything I said to you was true.  The words I used that sounded so vicious to you and JJ were “prejudiced”, “pompous”, conjecture”, and “undocumented”.   I had no problem with you repeating what I said but the problem was that you took my words out of context with little ” “s before and after them.    Therefore, you manipulated JJ as you usually do to only see my words out of context so they sounded way more negative.  When in context they are simple observations to the negative comments LWK made first. You have tried to gloss over what LWK said and therefore downplay how and what he said to seem innocuous. I am going to quote verbatim what LWK wrote so that you cannot alter the truth of how hurtful and harmful his original words:

> LWK ” I have often wondered if we should mark the > > beginning of the fall of modern Western > > civilization with the passage of the > > Nineteenth Amendment?” >

LWK “Actually, I meant exactly what I said. It seems to me that the Founders were great examples of thinkers on the mental plane and largely emobided the male energy of reason and logic. On the other hand modern politics seems to be more ruled by female emotional energy. JJ said that male energy is bright and visible whereas female energy was hidden, and magnetic. So it is hard to say whether women getting the vote was a cause, or a sympton (I would lean towards the latter explanation).”

Judy JJ’s only responded to these prejudiced comments as “unusual”. I actually thought he was taken aback by the comments as I was and others that I know here were as they told me they were shocked by them.  The fact that JJ did not correct Larry for making such ludicrous comments let me down.  I am even more shocked that he has no understanding of how or why such comments would be considered hurtful to women and harmful. I am not going to defend the passage of the 19th amendment as a step forward in evolution.   It is not my place to do that but more JJ’s place to make sure his forum stays in integrity and truth.  I will not do that as it is more on Larry to prove his theories and not the other way around.  To say, that I have to defend women against Larry’s comments is not fair and I will not do it.  I will say that his comments are undocumented and to seem to be based on a prejudiced or slanted perspective few have.  They are definitely then based on conjecture alone and I doubt Larry could show any statistical evidence to back up his thinking.   To then praise LWK for his thinking seems to be inflammatory and would show you agree with his thinking.  To now say you only praised him but do not understand how that associates you with his thoughts is illogical.  When we praise someone’s thoughts that means we agree with their thoughts.

Dan There you have me, the good, bad, and ugly. For the record and whether right, wrong or otherwise, I don’t consider “enabling” to be a loving behavior and standing up to someone for their own as well as group good may very well be the most truly loving thing one could do.

Judy I still see you as prejudiced in your thinking about women or you would have been appalled by Larry’s comments as was I.  Instead you praised him for thinking out of the box. I think anyone that agrees with Larry or praises Larry’s thinking must be challenged for their integrity and their prejudice and I am sorry you cannot handle opposition to your appraisals.

Dan This is my final thought on this regardless of response, I thought long and hard about whether to post it and decided on the side of integrity. Finis

Judy Good!   I do not respect your opinions or input to me or about me or having to do with me in any way.  Please refrain from mentioning my name again here or anywhere else.

 

Judy’s Post #2

JJ Few new members have come aboard the last few years and a large reason for this is there are too many personal attacks and personality conversations that bore or offend new people.

Judy The fact that Larry said what he did and neither you or anyone else defended the role of women in politics and the passage of the 19th amendment would have eventually cost you way more supporters and offended the new people so much worse than anything Ruth or I could ever do or say.

I am sure there are many people here new or not who lean “left” and might leave because of your recent posts that call them “leftys” or “true believers” .  You obviously have no regard for attracting or maintaining your member-base that leans “left”.  Why are so over-concerned about people who would not like me or Ruth?  I know that Ruth’s posting of quotes has to be a reason a lot of people are attracted and stay here.  I have not had a conflict with anyone here for the last 7 years since 2006 of any consequence and have not been moderated since 2005.

You should be more concerned about the “leftys” leaving in droves and how you are losing people due to all the political rhetoric of late.  LWK uses this forum to post articles from his right-wing blog.  That right there could be a huge turn-off for your group.

 

Judy’s 3rd Post
JJ
I didn’t see his political incorrectness as a big enough deal to jump up and down about.

Judy
No one jumped up and down. You guys (Dan first and then you) reacted to my use of the words “pompous conjecture” and “prejudiced comments”. It was not that big of a deal to me and should not have even mentioned but the lewd joke and the praising of Larry’s ideas by Dan gave me the idea to call a spade a spade. Actually Dan took my woprds out of context and posted them so that ti sounded like I was just calling names for no reason when I was merely making a point to why I thought the idea held no water.
Obviously, that was a bad decision on my part. I do not think I deserved to be moderated for using the word “pompous” and “prejudiced” in regard to someones idea. I asked for documentation or proof. I was not mad or emotional or really even cared that much about it.

Dan has called me way worse names over the years and you do not react to that. Why? he as called me a “useles coyote” and worse. This is way worse than saying someone’s idea is “pompous conjecture”.

I still do not care if you guys want to believe whatever you want to believe.

I will never use the word “pompous” which offended Dan. I think “prejudice” is okay though because JJ uses it too.

I do have a question to LWK and Dan. Do you really believe the idea that LWK presented that the decine in western civilization is due to women and the 19th amenedment is good and worth conetmplation for the group or were you trying to incite irritation and cause controversy?
Judy’s 4th Post

> LWK touched on the difference between male and female
> energies but again was politically incorrect.

My view is that anything that is “politically correct” is fair game to attack. 🙂

So, what is your view on the sexual dynamics of politics? Can you see a historical correlation between women getting the right to vote in 1920 and the rise of the political Left and the huge increase in the size, power, and intrusiveness of government in our lives?

It was only about decade later that we got FDR and the New Deal. Currently the “Gender Gap” is well documented in politics.

lwk

Judy
I am glad you point-blank asked JJ the question so he will give his opinion. He has avoided the subject directly. I gave my take on it he said I sounded insulting to you and Dan who praised the idea I am not impressed that the idea can hold any validity because there is not statistical evidence to back it up. There is only the surmising that such an idea could be true and is that enough to establish the idea as worthy?
I probably should have used the word “preposterous” instead of the wording I used calling the idea “pompous” as that word had a pejorative meaning attached. I see no validity in the proposition(s) that Larry is making. I do not say this to be hurtful to Larry or offend anyone. I am saying it because the idea is so preposterous that I am questioning whether the idea is worthy of discussion here due to is obvious invalidity. I see that the “idea” is only being proposed to cause undue controversy and must be instigated only to be hurtful or because LWK must have some animosities toward women. I say this to help LWK examine his prejudicial and thoughts that would predicate such an idea in the first place,
Again, this is not mean to be judgmental toward Larry but I think his radical idea is precipitated by preconceived notions and misunderstandings about female energy and how it operates in the world.

 

Judy’s 5th Post

Dan
And so while I did not intentionally incite her, I knew she would PROBABLY have a problem with me quoting her insults back to her. I could have chosen to just ignore her and let it go but in this instance I chose not to. Why?

I think she has probably inadvertantly learned this socially detrimental coping mechanism of using vicious vindictive verbal abuse to intimidate others into giving in her primarily because no one has taught her different by standing up to her bullying. Giving in is just easier and less painful than standing up and being subject to escalating abuse.

Judy
Why is that not “breaking the rules” of insulting a member?  He provoked you to enforce the rules by taking my words out of context and then he turned around and did the very same thing except worse.  I insulted an idea and he insulted me personally.
Why does he do this?  Because he can get by with it that is why.  How will he ever learn unless you enforce the rules?  He is so brazen that he cracks lewd jokes and demeans women right under your nose.

 

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