2010-3-21 05:50:00
JJ:
A lot of Obama supporters like Alston Jones are complaining lately that the two-party system is broken. I can imagine that for Democrats it does indeed seem broken because even with a super majority they cannot get any of their core legislation through.
Jone's solution? He wants to elect a bunch of independents and then they will support Obama better than the Democrats and get even more big spending programs through.
Looking to independents is wishful thinking. In April 2009 Independents supported Obama 53-28%. Now it has reversed itself so only 29% approve and 57% disapprove.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/08/obamas-approval-rating-hi_n_454136.html
Electing more Democrats will be his best hope and that hope will go down the drain come November.
"Proletariat" wrote:
"Edware Caudill; what a totally ridiculous comparison. But here is one for you - compare the accuracy of private concerns -- like Channel 7 -- in terms of forecasting the weather and how health care is working out in the hands of the private sector."
JJ:
I'd say a better comparison is Robert F. Kennedy Jr's statement that global warming is leading to no snow in Washington DC and predictions of how much we will have to spend on government programs. Dick Morris figures Obamacare will cost about six times the projected amount.
"Galena" wrote:
"Joe; I'm an Independent and I voted for Obama. It really came down to a choice between Bush and Bush Light. I figure that since both parties deficit spend our kid's money I might as well get something out of it like healthcare reform."
JJ:
I didn't like either candidate either but I looked at it as a choice between Bush heavy and Lenin light. It may actually be a good thing in the end that Obama got elected because it may force us to elect a good common sense economic president next -- Romney maybe.
"BRR" wrote:
"Citing Dick Morris as a source for a 'fact' is like citing Keith Olbermann. Both have little respect for facts."
JJ:
That's certainly true of Olbermann but Morris' facts usually are accurate from my experience. His predictions are only average in reliability though, but at least they are well thought out.
"My2CentsWorth" wrote:
"Mmmmmm. I see a thread here. Joseph also twists and manipulates facts to support his view or even more commonly to try and get out of the corners that he paints himself into."
JJ:
You Lefties keep accusing me of such things but never back anything up, except with your imaginations -- or should I say wishful thinking.
JJ:
I find it amazing that so much attention is placed upon health care when we have much more pressing matters. If you're out of a job and can't pay the rent what is it that concerns you the most - a job, or health care?
I'd say a job in that situation has about 20 times the importance.
Yet where is the Obama administration and Congress putting attention? They are reversing priorities and putting 20 times the attention on health care as they do jobs and helping the unemployed.
Let's get people back to work and the economy back on it's feet before we even dream of spending additional trillions on health care.
"CalvinJones" wrote:
"Well Joe 732 [JJ]; It is kind of tough to compete in the international market place without doing something about health care. By some estimates businesses located in countries with single payer health have nearly a 20 percent cost advantage over their American competitors."
JJ:
So you want me to pay higher taxes to finance health care for big business in the hope they will graciously lower their prices? Smart.
You may need to rethink this.
"GimmeShelter" wrote:
"Oh, and by the way. Judging from your letters referring to the Good Old Days, you're in your 60's and already sucking the teat of Medicare. Therefore, you have no right to tell me what healthcare I need. Just shut up."
JJ:
You can have any kind of healthcare you are willing to pay for. You have no right though to demand I pay for your health care.
"CameraFan" wrote:
"Joseph, do you have a health care program?"
JJ:
I just turned 65 and am forced to be on Medicare. Please do not call me a hypocrite because I am forced to sign up I am forced to pay taxes on such a program. I have never taken a dime from any health care program but am entitled to use them if I wanted because I've paid into them.
"WayneDear" wrote:
"So socialized medicine is okay for you but not for the younger workers who are paying for your socialized medicine? That's what I call hypocrisy."
JJ:
No!
Forced socialism is not all right by me. If a thief takes $100 and I am able to salvage $20 I'll take it - that is what I believe and teach. Doing what you believe and state is the opposite of hypocrisy. Duh... So far the State has taken lots of money from me for social programs and I have received zero back.
"Poobah" wrote:
"Well, you've already paid for the geezers ahead of you by 'force.' If you wish to look consistent, you'd now refuse to accept payment from the younger crowd who now supports your socialized services by 'force.' Revenge is a silly policy and to say, 'It is bad, but I can take advantage so I'm okay.'"
JJ:
You keep saying that I am a hypocrite for doing what I believe and teach. I've corrected you dozens of times but you are too thick to even understand what a hypocrite is. I could make a much greater case for you being one but am not into name calling. Let's deal with issues instead.
"Poobah" wrote:
"Joseph, your philosophy is akin to 'My dad beat me so I'm going to beat my son, it's only fair that I get to beat someone too.'"
JJ:
Does not compute or make any sense. How old are you? Twelve?
"WebFoot" wrote:
"Add healthcare costs for employers stifle economic growth, costs of the uninsured are strangling state budgets, and skyrocketing medical bankruptcies affect the insured and uninsured. Oh yes, the little matter of 45,000 Americans dying annually for lack of insurance."
JJ:
Obamacare would just increase costs and make for more strangulation. Is that what you want? If it is ever implemented I'll come back with an 'I told you so.'
"WebFoot" wrote:
"When you drive off a cliff due to a sandwich you need to conclude you are a poor driver. Or a poor masticator."
JJ:
The sandwich was not connected to driving off the cliff. I said he was thinking of eating a sandwich, but if you find yourself in danger then getting out of danger takes priority. I've been without a job before as well as health care and getting a job was a hundred times the priority to me.
"GimmeShelter" wrote:
"Except, that I am paying for YOUR healthcare, Joe. Enjoy your Medicare."
JJ:
Since I have never used a dime's worth of health care public or private so you have paid for nothing. In addition I have paid a lot into it so I should be able to draw my share out without you criticizing me if I want. What in the world is wrong with taking what you pay for? You're not making sense.
"WebFoot" wrote:
"I'm not here to teach you how to formulate a compelling argument. But to place a priority on an objective is not an exclusionary process. You assume a 'one or the other' position without proof. That's called a circular argument which, by definition, is invalid."
JJ:
Nothing circular about it unless your head is spinning. We have a devastating economic problem and 10 percent (some say the real number is 18 percent) unemployed. we need to one-pointedly (not circularly) attack the problem before we spend additional trillions.
"Ninja_Cat" wrote:
"Taking the Burden of America's health care off of the Business Sector will make our economy better. We're the only nation that makes it incumbent for businesses to insure their workers health needs are paid for. Because of that burden, many of our companies have moved off-shore to cut costs...."
JJ:
So your idea is to increase our costs and shove them all off on the taxpayer who can afford it even less than businesses. Does not compute.
Quoting JJ, "GrayMatter" first wrote:
"'I just turned 65 and am forced to be on Medicare.'"
Replying to the above, "GrayMatter" then wrote:
"Outright lie or mis-statement?
"Nobody is forced to use Medicare.
"You can purchase private insurance at any age.
"You just have to be willing to accept your socialistic risk pool...."
JJ:
You don't know what you're talking about. I am forced to pay my share for Medicare, hence be enrolled, and cannot refuse it.
"GrayMatter":
"I realized long ago that reading comprehension is not one of your strengths, but please show where I ever stated anything about enrollment.
"I stated and I quote: 'Nobody is forced to use Medicare.'"
JJ:
You said I was lying implying that I believe I am forced to actually use Medicare. It is an obvious fact that we don't have to use it. I think everyone knows that and accusing me of lying about this has nothing to do with what I was saying -- as usual.
"CameraFan":
"So you don't wish to participate in Medicare. When you were out of a job did you find yourself accepting unemployment insurance?"
JJ:
I believe in unemployment insurance and support it aggressively. I believe in taking Medicare since I am forced to pay for it. I believe in salvaging as much of what I pay for as practically possible, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't. So far they haven't spent a dime back on me with Medicare though so the government has the best of me.
"CameraFan":
"Well Joseph I am truly happy for you. You have been blessed. I feel confident that you truly understand that so many good people aren't as fortunate in so many arenas. If my neighbor needs help and I help, maybe when I need help it will be there for me. What comes around goes around."
JJ:
What in the world makes you think I do not believe in helping the unfortunate? Are you being mean spirited with such a false accusation or just slow of understanding?
"WebFoot":
"Okay. You neither understood nor even bothered to look up 'circular argument' (asserting the premise as proof).
"Now you have restated your premise without conclusion. That's called an opinion. I never attacked your opinion. I merely pointed out you had an invalid argument to support your opinion. I don't think you understand debate."
JJ:
I was stating a fact, not an opinion. Here are the exact words again: "We have a devastating economic problem and 10 percent (some say the real number is 18 percent) unemployed."
Conclusion: This is a problem we need to solve as a top priority. If you disagree with that because you think it is mysteriously circular then I can do nothing for you.
"WayneDear":
"Joe, you often use the phrase 'lost in space' as if to cement your argument. Were you a Hollywood script writer for the '60s TV space opera 'Lost In Space?'"
JJ:
You sure you got the right guy? I have never used that phrase in this forum and did not like the show. Star Trek I liked.
"CaseRose":
"Okay, hope to your God there's no fire, cause our socialist fire department shouldn't be sent to your residence -- Oh! That's not the socialism you were talking about? Give it up idiot!"
JJ:
A fire department is not forced on the majority when 99.9% of the population support it. Duh...
"GimmeShelter":
"'Ol Joe just doesn't get this healthcare issue. He claims he is entitled to Medicare because, he paid into it during his work years. As have most of us. With that I do not disagree.
"The problem with that logic, Joe, is that you paid deductions on payroll in the 1960's and before."
JJ:
I've paid in much more than I have received (zero) and am still paying so your point is pointless and without logic. Also I paid in the 60s 70s 80, 90s 2000s and currently. What gall to think I am entitled to nothing in return while you get yours.
If I am forced to buy something wasteful I do not believe in just throwing the thing away, but in using and salvaging what I can. Most people think this way, so there is nothing unusual in such an approach. I do not believe in paying for something and not using it, if using it is practical.
Please refer to this answer if the question comes up again in your mind.
Copyright © 2010 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved