Local Posts #38 (Part One)

2009-9-25 03:42:00

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #1

JJ:

Maureen Karr makes a good point that we are not properly represented. Our representatives are supposed to represent the will of the majority of the people in their district and if done properly, as envisioned by our founders, this would produce a similar result to a direct democracy, which also represents the will of the people.

The problem is when representatives get in office they decide they want to represent their own will or follow party leaders instead of the people who vote them in and pay their salary. Even though our representative government was the best system possible when created it is broken today because the common people are not properly represented.

A Democracy is not perfect but anything we can do to head in that direction is better than we have now because the will of the people makes much more sense than the will of power brokers.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #2

JJ:

This Famous Quote attributed to Jefferson is spurious and never stated by him:

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49."

See:

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Democracy_is_nothing_more_than_mob_rule
http://www.conservapedia.com/Thomas_Jefferson

It is not only untrue but it makes no sense. You only have two types of rule possible. The first is majority rule, or some type of democratic rule, and the second is minority rule which is accomplished trough all kinds of authoritarian methods.

Currently we have a minority rule where the will of around 30% take away the rights of the other 70%.

Where would you rather live? In a country where 30% of the people are represented or 51% or more?

I'd go for the 51% or more.

See my next post to see what Jefferson really thought of democracy.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #3

JJ:

Jefferson on democracy:

"The will of the people... is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object." (Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Waring, 1801. ME [Memorial Edition] 10:236)

"The measures of the fair majority... ought always to be respected." (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1792. ME 8:397)

"I subscribe to the principle, that the will of the majority honestly expressed should give law." (Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1793. ME 1:332)

"Where the law of the majority ceases to be acknowledged, there government ends, the law of the strongest takes its place, and life and property are his who can take them." (Thomas Jefferson to Annapolis Citizens, 1809. ME 16:337)

"This [...] [is] a country where the will of the majority is the law, and ought to be the law." (Thomas Jefferson: Answers to de Meusnier Questions, 1786. ME 17:85)

Not taken from Fox News, Rush, Hannity or Beck.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #4

"Bcuz0" wrote:

"I guess quoting Jefferson gets you reported for abuse. Interesting very interesting. It seems to me that the biggest proponents of free speech are the quickest to block it exercise when they fear what's been said."

JJ:

All you have to do is mention the Founding Fathers, liberty, Fox, Rush, financial responsibility, etc., and you will be flagged by the so-called tolerant left here.

Their words support free speech but their actions are against it.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #5

"Thatsrap" in speaking of restricting free speech from the Right wrote:

"They burned and destroyed cd's [compact discs], like a book burning."

JJ:

So a handful of people burned some CDs that they purchased, owned and had a right to do whatever they want with. Ohhh! That's so intrusive on... Whose free speech was restricted?

No ones'.

If I were to print out a copy of your post and burn it I suppose you would think that is taking way your free speech. What a humongous stretch of logic you conjure up to attack the Right.

That doesn't compare in the slightest to the government making laws to limit free speech or any other thing.

Bill Maher was not silenced by the government or Republicans but got in trouble when he called the 911 terrorists "brave." It was too much for advertisers and they went elsewhere. He still had the right to call terrorists brave, but the advertisers used their protected freedom to not pay him to say it.

No free speech in the slightest was denied the Dixie Chicks or Bill Maher.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #6

"Thatsrap":

"If you don't see the parallel to book burning, then you shouldn't be discussing free speech at all."

JJ:

The purpose of book burning of old was not to protest, but to destroy knowledge and the books were rarely the book burners own property. Because of book burning many books were completely lost to history.

The burning of the CDs, the person's own property, was a form of protest which is a form of free speech NOT a violation of free speech.

Duh...

"Rap":

"Do you know their music was banned from airplay to 'protest' their 'lack of patriotism'?"

JJ:

The airway?

That's a very deceptive wording. A handful of stations (not the airway) used their own right of free expression and decided not to play their music whereas people like you would do what? Come in with an iron fist and force them to express or play that which they do not want?

You are the one against free speech. To play what you want on your station, your computer, stereo or car does not take away anyone's free speech.

"Rap":

"Do you realize they lost concert dates, record sales, etc., simply because Natalie Maines said, 'We don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas.'"

JJ:

And Ann Coulter loses lots of bookings because she doesn't agree with Obama. You don't hear her bellyaching about that restricting her free speech. Also a lot of conservative actors have difficulty getting work.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #7

"JIMV" wrote:

"Direct Democracy is mob rule...."

JJ:

This is a sound byte that many have swallowed but there is no evidence of it. A direct democratic vote elects all of our governors and mayors and that has nothing to do with a mob. We have many initiatives that have been put forward in states and there is no mob surfacing to enforce any rule there.

Almost all mobs are minorities gathered together to obtain their way that was denied by the majority.

You either have minority rule or majority rule. Because extremes like Hitler are always in the minority the majority is a much more stable bet.

"JIMV":

"Today's politicians are not unlike 1776's King and Parliament, they simply ignore the folk who elect them. Why? Because it is almost impossible to get rid of them...."

JJ:

Today's politicians do not support true democracy but want to maintain their power through satisfying their own will instead of the people.

"Proletariat":

"What if the 51% favor segregation? Or some other morally objectionable law like death panels?"

JJ:

Look at what the minority wants today:

What do the majority want?

No government is perfect, but which one makes more sense? The will of the people as a whole leads to he path of common sense as was believed by Jefferson.

"Becourteous" said:

"So, if they don't represent the majority, how do they continue to get elected?"

JJ:

Good question.

Because they deceive the people telling them what they want to hear just before election time. Many do not pay attention until then. This is why we need an informed electorate.

  

Aug 31, 2009 -- Post #8

"Mud" wrote:

"Joseph, I'm just curious, What were those 'free speech" areas, cordoned off blocks away from any political event that might draw attention where a political event during the previous administration occur? Nobody wanted to see dissent during the previous administration."

JJ:

That had nothing to do with free speech, but security. If you do not think that Obama doesn't have areas cordoned off for the same purpose then I have a capital building to sell you uptown.

"Mud":

"Which administration didn't demonstrate fear of folks expressing 1st and 2nd Amendment rights simultaneously?"

JJ:

The Bush administration. Obama, Peolosi and Reed are in a panic over the free expression at the town halls. When Bush encountered protesters he commented that he honored their right to express their opinion. The Left did go over the line though when they went to Karl Rove's house and harassed his family and banged on the windows. They did a similar thing to Clarence Thomas.

"Mud":

"Where were you 2nd amendment folk 40 years ago when some Black Folks attempted to "openly carry", to a city hall meeting in Oakland?"

JJ:

Newsflash: it's 2009. A black guy carried a gun to a town hall and the media just showed the gun on his waste and reported him as being a white racist.

  

Sept 1, 2009 -- Post #1

Good letter by Mr. Aston.

It is indeed ironical that so many times environmentalists claim to be doing something for our good and a negative result follows:

Greedy capitalists would do much better with the environment than this bunch.

  

Sept 1, 2009 -- Post #2

"Boise River" wrote:

"Greedy capitalists can manage the environment better? What a bold faced denial of history. Who has polluted the water, land, and air to the extent that thousands die premature deaths and thousands more suffer debilitating illnesses each year? Wait for it -- greedy capitalists."

JJ:

And who has shut down nuclear development putting us 30 years behind causing us to depend on the dirtiest of all energy -- coal? Thanks to these do-gooder environmentalists we have dangerous amounts of mercury in the air, water and our food.

In addition to this coal fired plants pollute with more radioactive elements than do nuclear plants.

Things would have been better if environmentalists had just stayed out if the way and let the grand ecosystem of human ingenuity take its natural course.

  

-- End Of Part One --

  

[Compiler's Note: The "Local Posts" series of articles found here in "The Archives" are a collection of exchanges between JJ Dewey and others participating on a local online newspaper blog which can be read online at Idaho Statesman Letters To The Editor. These exchanges were subsequently re-posted by JJ Dewey to The Keys Of Knowledge discussion group prior to being archived here.]

  

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Local Posts #38, Part Two