Local Posts #33 (Part One)

2009-9-3 09:55:00


Aug 10, 2009 -- Post #1


Yesterday I was accused of being paid by some right wing group, which is totally untrue. I am not associated with any political group. On the other hand, when I see so many letters and forum comments in support of socialism in this most conservative state it makes one wonder if there isn't some left-wing organized letter writing campaign going on.

These people who think that by eliminating the profit motive and switching to a one-payer program will magically reduce costs are deceiving themselves. Medicare doesn't operate on the profit motive and their costs are $9634 per person. Medicaid is even higher.

Healthcare costs in Japan, which has universal health care, is only $2474 per person.

Before we expand our broken social system we need to find out what we are doing wrong and fix it before we break the bank with an expansion of a boondoggle full of waste and corruption.


Aug 10, 2009 -- Post #1

"Buttercup" writes:

"The single payer non-profit would negotiate prices just as they do in Japan. I believe in a free-market system but without some regulation greed sets in -- we've seen it time and again."


Then why is our socialized health care through Medicare and Medicaid not doing this? These are single payer programs. We already spend over $9000 per person for those insured through socialized medicine here which means that we spend an average of $3088 per every man woman and child in America through social health spending alone, which is a lot more than Japan's total bill of $2474 per person. If we include private health care we spend $6714 per person.

If our socialized medicine is so great then why are we spending more on it per man woman and child than any other country with universal health care already?

It is insane to expand on something so obviously broken. Let us start with tort reform and reduce litigation as Japan has done and reduce the $60 billion in fraud in Medicare -- a problem not experienced in the more efficient private sector. Then how about reducing unnecessary testing which some say accounts for a whopping third of U.S. medical costs.


Aug 10, 2009 -- Post #3

"Grandjester" (GJ) writes:

"As you indicate, if we offered Universal Health to every American, the costs, even including today's inefficiencies would balance out much closer to the Japanese model. Somewhat unintended I guess, but you are making the argument for Universal Health Care."


You're not understanding the data. We ALREADY pay an average of $3088 per man woman and child if we take our current socialized health care and average it out. This is not the future. This is NOW!

This means we already pay 125% more in socialized medicine per person than Japan does. For those enrolled in Medicare the cost is almost 400% more.

Obviously we need to fix what is broken before we pass a 1000 page boondoggle to make it worse.


Aug 10, 2009 -- Post #4

"BoiseRiver" writes:

"Tort reform is a red herring. It will not reduce the cost of medical care, but will ensure that victims will not receive justice."


And you know this because...?

If you do not think the fear of lawsuits causes many unnecessary tests then I have a Capitol building to sell you in Boise.

Fear of lawsuits plus profits from testing accounts for $700 billion a year in unnecessary testing or close to a third of all heath care expenses. When we have 20 times the number of attorneys as Japan you can bet that fear of litigation is one of the reasons for the difference in health care costs.




Aug 11, 2009 -- Post #1


(Note: The letters posted on this day were mostly people mostly thanks for a number of reasons.)

And I would like to give my thanks to the members of this forum for being so considerate, helpful and open-minded. Shucks, you guys are so nice and always listen awe-inspired to what I have to say.

I would like to thank Obama and Congress for giving us a joke health care plan covering a laughable 1000 pages that is so fun to read. I look forward to when he laughs are over and real health care reform can be presented.

I want to thank Nancy Pelosi and Congress for insisting we buy them a half billion dollars worth of private jets. Making this stark in-your-face request has awakened citizens to bring representatives back to reality. I'm sure this was benevolent Pelosi's plan all along.

Finally, I would really like to give citizens my thanks for confronting oblivious politicians at town hall meetings. I am thankful that freedom of speech is still alive.


Aug 11, 2009 -- Post #2


(Note: Comments on criticisms that I altered the subject.)

Face it.

If I hadn't made a creative post all the comment that would have been posted would be a couple saying "great letters!"

"BigRedYeti" wrote:

"Face it Joe, if you hadn't made any comment today the world would have been a better place. Tomorrow is another day though."


Aug 11, 2009 -- Post #3


Sorry to send a ripple through your idea of heaven which must be extreme boredom to anyone with a life.

"Run" wrote:

"Joseph, you're truly a schmuck."


Aug 12, 2009 -- Post #1


Sounds like Mr. Conner is a "watcher of iniquity" seeking to find a devil under every rock. He's one of these that look for racism where there is none if for no other reason than to feel a sense of moral superiority. White liberals seem to be particularly afflicted with this problem.

The only real examples of racism he cites are from over 60 years ago. He says we are currently profiling Central Asian Muslims but we are not even doing that. Instead, we concentrate on patting down little old ladies at airports and let many Muslims go through for fear of being called racists by fanatics and sue happy attorneys.

Fear of profiling is so extreme that the media usually avoid giving the race of wanted criminals in stories. If we do not know if he is white, brown or green then the chances of finding him are pretty slim.

If we want to solve or prevent crime a certain amount of profiling is essential and if done objectively it has nothing to do with racism.


Aug 12, 2009 -- Post #2

"BroncoBabe" wrote:

"Well you can certainly tell which readers strictly get their 'news' from Faux Noise [Fox News]. How can they be 'fair and balanced' when they don't even show the president's town hall that debunked every single one of the myths being purported by the uneducated and their puppet masters."


Unlike the Left here I check out both sides. I watched coverage of Obama's town hall on ABC, NBC and Fox. All of them showed basically the same clips. Fox gave minimal commentary on their news programs whereas NBC and ABC gave the impression that Obama successfully handled the debate.

Why are you so biased that you say that Fox did not show the town hall when they did so with less bias than the major media?

"BB" writes:

"Doubters, do yourself a favor, get properly educated."


You're the one that needs to be properly educated as you are reporting falsehoods here. You can never know what is on Fox when you do not watch it.


"The death panels are ridiculous."


Not so. If the demand for services goes way up then life and death decisions will have to me made that are not necessary now.


"And you can keep your current insurance!"


That's what they thought in Canada but it wasn't long before private insurance died. Why do you think it would be different here? It can only be blind faith in Obama.

"Proletariat" wrote:

"When people shout that they want their country back, are they protesting that a black man is in charge?"


So when Democrats were shouting they wanted their country back under Bush they were protesting to having a white man in charge? Your logic escapes me.

In addition to this I haven't heard many of the town hallers use this phrase. The Left used it mindlessly under Bush, not even knowing what they wanted back.


"It is not a grass-roots movement."


And you know this because? And I suppose you know the Hale Bop comet was really a space ship?

"Run" writes:

"Joseph, nowhere in Mr. Connor's letter does he purport to be a 'liberal.' He may very well have voted for McCain and despise the currently proposed health care reforms. You have to argue with what he says, not with what he doesn't say."


I didn't say he was a liberal but spoke of white liberals in general. I do not even know if Conner is white. There is a 99% chance he is liberal as I know of no conservative who looks for racism under every rock. He also attacked Rush in his last letter.

Again, you need to argue with what I say, not with what do not say.

"Camerafan" writes:

"I agree. For years I have noticed a trend. Example: 'There was this guy who just ran a red light.' or 'There was this black guy who just ran a red light.' Same guy. Why do folks need to point out his race. Are they really racist -- possibly or perhaps conditioned over these many years?"


If a white guy runs a red light in a black neighborhood are the residents racist for saying it was a white guy who ran the light?

If the guy was wearing a bright yellow shirt and you say, "a guy in a yellow shirt ran the light" -- are you also committing sin?

"CalvinJones" wrote:

"Until stem cell technology is perfected and the shortage of organ donors goes away I cannot support mandatory helmet laws. It is plain simple Darwinism. If stupid people don't want to wear helmets then their organs are better off going to someone else."


I think I agree with Calvin here but would add these to the stupid pile: Those who are against selling your organs when you die so your kids can have the money. This would dramatically increase the supply.


Aug 12, 2009 -- Post #3

"Grandjester" (GJ) wrote:

"One need to look no further than some of the signs at these 'Tea Parties,' some of the chain emails being sent out with Obama as a witch doctor, monkey or other racist stereotypes. Feigning ignorance of this blight equates to tacit approval."


You are not making sense as usual. I attended the tea party in Boise and out of the hundreds of signs there was nothing racist. It sounds like you had to go to a fringe like the Aryan Nations to find something negative. What a pathetic distortion.

If you scan protests on the Left and Right and their thousands of signs you'll find some outlandish ones on both sides. Overall I have seen a much smaller percentage of offensive ones on the Right. Check this out for Leftists hate:


This is my second Fox News reference since I have been here. Hope you don't have a heart attack.


"Joseph, Fact free as usual, and Death Panels exist today, they're called Insurance Companies, And every day in this country, folks are being denied coverage, denied life saving procedures, denied medication."


Comparing this to rationing under socialized systems is dishonest.

First, when you buy insurance you already have the coverage given to you in advance in print. An informed buyer will know what he is purchasing and if it doesn't fit his needs then he can go somewhere else.

Second, if a socialized system denies you treatment you are doomed. In a free market if your needs go beyond your insurance coverage you can often still get the needed treatment even if you are poor.


"The fact that you reactionaries have to flat out lie to try and defend your idiotic position shows that you cannot be trusted in this argument."


You have accused me of lying many times but have not been able to produce one single lie in hundreds of posts of trying. You just embarrass yourself. Give your insulting urges a rest.


Aug 12, 2009 -- Post #4


"Joseph, I have pointed out your lies time and time again...."


Your thinking is so divorced from reality that you think any difference of opinion from yours is a lie. You have not been able to point out even one lie I have made for the simple reason that I do not lie.


"Lie #1 -- Comparing this to rationing under socialized systems is dishonest."


You are saying that comparing private insurance denials to state socialistic rationing is comparing apples to apples and I say it is comparing apples to oranges. I wouldn't say either of us are lying, but we certainly see differently.


"Lie #2 -- In a free market if your needs go beyond your insurance coverage you can often still get the needed treatment even if you are poor. So that's two in a single post."


I am proof that I tell the truth. When I was young and we had real private medicine I was in an explosion that put me in the hospital for a total of three months over a period covering six operations. The first hospital stay we paid ourselves through mowing laws and picking fruit. Two additional months of hospital care was paid for by private charities.

More recently a friend spent a month in the hospital and had no insurance to cover expensive tests and treatment. He received them anyway and the hospital wound up paying for it.

In addition Medicaid pays for a lot of medical care not covered by private insurance.


"And your argument over the racist keerap being pulled is the other side does it too? Another lie."


I said both sides will have a few outrageous signs. That is absolute truth my friend.

You must be really frustrated after trying for months you still cannot prove one lie. You ought to be more like me and not stoop so low to call anyone a liar but just attempt to illustrate the truth with the facts.

I'm sure there is a true gentleman in you waiting to burst forth.


Aug 12, 2009 -- Post #5

"Becourteous" (BC) wrote:

"Do you have any idea how conversations of end of life care, advance directives and living wills take place? This is NOT a strategy to end someone's life prematurely."


I never said a word about these things. I was talking about the rationing that always comes in a socialistic system. Under universal health care decisions will have to me made as to whether to spend $100,000 to save one eighty year old or three forty year olds.


"It is absolutely immoral to spend precious resources for expensive, sometimes painful & invasive care on a citizen who does not want that care, but wants to die in peace at home with their loved ones."


I agree. You need to pick a subject on which we disagree if you want to argue.


"Joseph, just out of curiosity...in your anti government healthcare belief, are you saying we should do away with Medicare?"


I am not anti government and I just anti bad government and waste. The government currently pays 46% of all health care cost in this country and that amounts to more money for every man woman and child than all the spending in Japan put together. The system is broke and to expand that which does not work is insane.

I think we should dismantle all government health systems and start anew using the best of present and past systems to keep costs low. We could then use this money to give basic insurance to all Americans in need and have some left over. No new taxes would have to be levied.