Moving Forward

2008-11-11 06:37:00

In a previous message, JJ wrote:

"I would guess that we stand pretty much alone as a metaphysical group that disagrees with him significantly."

And John C responded with:

"I don't know as the group ever took a vote or appointed a spokesman to state what the group agrees or doesn't agree with. I recognize that you have significant disagreement with Obama, and the most vocal posters of this group have significant disagreements with Obama, but you don't speak for all of us."

JJ:

Did you not read all my post John? If you would have read on a few sentences later you would have come across this:

[JJ quoting himself.]

"Some in the group may have already concluded that Obama is the antichrist; others may think he is almost a messiah. Both may be wrong, but at least both sides are being presented which is rare when discussing Obama in metaphysical circles."

It should have been obvious from my whole post that I was not saying that the whole group supports Obama. My point was that we pretty much stand alone as a metaphysical group that has Obama skeptics and critics. In addition I pretty much stand alone as a leader of a metaphysical group who is strongly opposed to forced socialism and sees him as misled.

John C on his support for Obama:

"It's more than just feelings, as I made clear in my post. So, please don't dumb down what I said by leaving out that with which you can't argue."

JJ:

Okay then, let's look more closely at your post. Here's the first reason you think Obama will lead the nation toward love and light:

"When I watch political discourse or debates on TV, I see one side constantly trying to destroy the other with the force of their arguments, or their emotional appeal, or if all else fails, outright lies. In the end, nothing gets accomplished. BHO is the best example I have seen of a person who doesn't do this. When the other side has a point that he agrees with, he acknowledges it. I recall he stated his agreement with John McCain three times in one of the debates. This might not be a good idea in politics, but it is good human relations.

"Seeing BHO successfully do this on more than one occasion is something that appeals to me on a mental level. I have seen this philosophy with me, and to see somebody use these ideas successfully, it "feels" good in both my heart and mind."

JJ:

Let's start with the "destroy" part. Maybe we saw different debates but when I saw Obama debate both Clinton and McCain it looked to me that he was seeking to "destroy" them as much as they were him.

You are not speaking of a fact that a group can agree upon, but how Obama made you feel. He made you feel a certain way and me and others another.

The other thing you liked here was that Obama agreed several times with McCain during the debates.

This is a common debate tactic that is widely taught. That is you agree with your opposition on an obvious point and then make your case. I often do this myself when arguing with someone.

This approach, which is used by many, including some very bad dudes, is no indication that a person is in the light or dark.

Just as the good and the bad are friendly to those they like, even so both sides will use these debate tactics.

Some greats like Lincoln and Churchill, on the other hand, sought to "destroy" their opponents argument during a debate.

Let's go on to your next point:

"I also appreciate his calm demeanor in dealing with situations. This appeals to me on both the mental and emotional levels. He has shown me the value of calming the emotions and coolly working out an intelligent solution to a problem. If you allow your emotions to rule over your mind, you can't think or concentrate, and other people get the correct impression that you are not in control."

JJ:

This description her was one thing that reminded me of the General Authorities in the LDS church who you see as far and away less enlightened than Obama. They are all known far and wide among the members as having a calm demeanor. Many bureaucrats also have a calm demeanor if you do not challenge them. This does not mean that any of them or Obama is on the path of light.

John C:

"Also, something that BHO does, which I really like, both mentally and emotionally, is that he has a tough gentleness about him. This is an attribute of his that reminds me the most of Lincoln."

JJ:

I certainly do not see this connection. Where are all the stories then that a Lincoln personality would tell?

If he was like Lincoln he would have tried to right the wrong that was done to "Joe the plumber" when his followers illegally released private state records and tried to destroy him. Lincoln wouldn't have threatened radio stations with lawsuits that ran ads exposing his past.

You've made a value judgement similar to other Obama devotees and offer no evidence here that he is on the path of light.

John C:

"Another attribute about BHO that appeals to my spirit, mind, and heart is love. I have never heard Obama utter that word, but it is so obvious when he smiles at his wife and daughters, or greets people on the campaign trail. It appears to me that he truly loves all kinds of people. And, he's comfortable showing and sharing that love."

JJ:

And I saw lots of love for fellowmen, family and country coming from John McCain, but that doesn't mean he would lead the country on the path of light.

John C:

"I am usually not much for following other people as role models, but he has shown me many traits I would like to emulate or perfect in myself."

JJ:

And Napoleon had a number of traits that inspired the masses, but his policies destroyed France and left them in darkness.

John C:

"Both, and also to my spiritual side as well. But as with all people, I don't see him in the sending role and me as in the receiving role. I see him as a friend, a partner, and as someone who is open to the Spirit."

JJ:

This is another value judgment that has little connection to his words and works. Unless an audience gets a revelation from God there is no way to put this forth as truth.

John C:

"Everybody here seems to me, at least, to be so afraid of him and what negative effect he is going to have on them. How about being pro-active for a change? How about flowing a little Light, Love, and Power in his direction?"

JJ:

If you believe this then why didn't you apply it to Bush? All I saw from you toward him was criticism.

The fact is this. If someone tells you he is going to do a certain thing that will bring you and loved ones pain you will not pray for him to succeed in that direction. I might pray for Obama to change his mind on a number of things, like the Missile Shield which could save civilization.

I find that you and other Obama supporters are short on telling us what he will actually do that you are looking forward to.

Are you looking forward to more enforced socialism?

Are you looking forward to higher taxes?

Are you looking forward to more restrictions and regulations?

Are you looking forward to a devalued dollar that overspending will bring?

Are you looking forward to oil shortages when he uses an executive order to stop drilling?

Are you looking forward to the drain on the economy and lower quality health care that socialized medicine will bring?

Are you looking forward to little or no talk radio when he signs legislation with intent to silence it?

Are you looking forward to a civilian military with equal power to the regular military?

Are you looking forward to a forced community service under the guidance of such a domestic police force?

Are you looking forward to him fighting an illusionary war on Global Warming when the earth has been cooling since 1998?

Are you looking forward to a carbon tax which could destroy coal mining and what little economy we have left?

You seem to love his personality, but what about the things he says he will actually do?

That's what we have to look at.

If you are an enforced socialist at heart then you have reason to be happy and supportive.

If not, then I think you need to examine your heart and ask why you really support him.

"It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, all Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service."
  -- Rahm Emanuel, Obama's Chief of Staff

(http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80539)