Re: Big Government

2008-4-15 13:13:00

Larry begins by quoting JJ from a message posted at The Keys Of Knowledge spiritual discussion group which contained a preview of a newly written chapter in JJ's new book entitled, "Fixing America":

"If all taxes are taken into consideration the average person in the United States pays almost 50%."

Larry then continues with:

"In honor of today being April 15th, and having just a few minutes ago mailed my tax returns to the Federal government I thought I would take a minute to calculate what Robin and I paid in taxes this year.

"I took into account the following:

"Federal Income Tax
Social Security payments on W-2
Medicare on W-2 form
Property taxes
Texas sales tax of 6.25% (we have no state income tax)

"As far as I can tell we paid less than 18% of our combined income in taxes in 2007. While certainly not rich we don't do too bad. I did have some deductions for children and without those we might have been in the 20% + bracket if these calculations are accurate.

"What do you base your claim of the average person paying 50% taxes on? I believe that I probably make more than "average" and I can't see that I come anywhere close to that figure."

JJ:

Looks like you are doing better than average tax wise.

Tax freedom day this year is April 23. This day is nationally recognized and articles are printed up on it in all the papers each year so the statistics on it do not seem to be in question.

This is based on the average state and local taxes the average taxpayers pays which is 30.8%.

See:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/

BUT...

Those are only a portion of the taxes we pay. There are many hidden taxes that we pay indirectly in one way or another. When these are included some calculate that the average taxpayer pays almost 70% in taxes so 50% should be a conservative estimate. This is a figure I have seen used dozens of times by various tax reformers.

See:

http://www.reasontofreedom.com/visible_burden_government_part_1.html

Larry:

"'Different labor theories of value prevailed amongst classical economists through to the mid-19th century. [The labor theory of value] is especially associated with Adam Smith and David Ricardo. Since that time it is most often associated with Marxian economics; ...'"

JJ:

Comparing Adam Smith or myself to Karl Marx is ridiculous. Smith and Marx had entirely different mindsets on the application of the value of labor and Marx's views were much more abstract. It's like saying that Smith and Marx were both similar because they both liked carrots.

I do not believe you can find quotations from Marx about labor comparable to those I gave from Adam Smith. Smith wanted to use the value of labor as the basis of a free market economy whereas Marx saw it as a socialistic value.

Benjamin Franklin also was thinking like Adam Smith -- not Marx -- when he said:

"Silver and gold...(are) of no certain permanent value ...therefore it seems requisite to fix upon something else...and this I take to be labour." [Benjamin Franklin, Writings, "A Modest Inquiry into the Nature and Necessity of a Paper Currency," (Philadelphia, April 3, 1729), p. 126.]