2007-11-10 16:08:00
Larry writes:
"So if the Earth was created around 4,000 B.C. then this chronology makes sense. You say that you were reading AAB [Alice A. Bailey] by then and did not believe in this sort of chronology. So what was so spectacular about 4000 B.C. that it should mark the beginning of the Lord's 'First Day' of seven? Why should we see your prediction here as being particularly astounding given that you were a) predicting something miraculous would 'not' happen (often a safer bet) and b) it seems based on an arbitrary point in time (which just happens to be a big 'round number' like 4000)?"
JJ:
It's not an arbitrary point in time. I think the Bible covers a 7000 year cycle and approximately 4000 BC a new Adam appeared to initiate the new cycle with improvements in human evolution.
The prediction is noteworthy because I cannot find any other believer in the Second Coming from the Sixties or Seventies who definitely stated that Christ would not appear before the year 2000. I would be surprised if anyone could dig one up. At best some said that it "could happen" after 2000, but not that it definitely would happen after that time. I did not say mine was an "astounding" prediction, but if one stands alone in making a prediction and it comes to pass then that is a significant insight. It may not seem like a big deal on hindsight but if one returns to the mindset of the believers of that time then it was really out of the mainstream.
Of course, those who do not believe in the scriptures think a Second Coming will never happen, but an unthinking rejection of all things in the scriptures is far from impressive.
[Note: The following was extracted from Keys Of Knowledge Spiritual Discussion Group Message No. 32232 -- Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:11 pm]
Larry quoting JJ:
"I think the Bible covers a 7000 year cycle and approximately 4000 BC a new Adam appeared to initiate the new cycle with improvements in human evolution."
Larry:
"But why do you think that?"
JJ:
First, I sense it intuitively and secondly, the Jews were meticulous record keepers and this indicates that there was a beginning of a new cycle around 4000 BC.
Larry quoting JJ:
"I cannot find any other believer in the Second Coming from the Sixties or Seventies who definitely stated that Christ would not appear before the year 2000."
Larry:
"Isn't this what the AAB/DK writings teach, i.e., that Christ and hierarchy will return sometime in the early 21st century?"
JJ:
Actually no. After World War II DK [Djwhal Khul] stated that human evolution had taken a turn for the better and Christ had made a decision to appear again. He indicated this would be soon -- ahead of schedule. Most Bailey students in the Fifties, Sixties and Seventies believed Christ would appear before the year 2000. The most famous of these is Benjamin Creme who personally knew her and was an assiduous student. He has taught for decades that Christ is already here living in London just waiting for the right moment to announce himself. He has made a half dozen predictions of the date but they have all failed. As you know I have taught that he is a false prophet.
In making that prediction I was going against the grain of DK students. I always give the greatest credibility to what registers inside.
[Note: The following was extracted from Keys Of Knowledge Spiritual Discussion Group Message No. 32237 -- Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:24 am]
John Megivern wrote:
"Folks: I disagree with you on the earth being created in 4,000 BC. I do believe the Adamic race came on the scene and fell into sin shortly thereafter. The creation account actually two creations: the natural world(s) and then the Adamic race as second. Now, I know some will disagree with that simplicity, but for the sake of our belief system that is offered for now."
JJ:
I don't think anyone here says the earth was created 4000 BC. I said the Bible covers a cycle that begins then. I believe the earth is billions of years old.
[Note: The following was extracted from Keys Of Knowledge Spiritual Discussion Group Message No. 32241 -- Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:08 pm]
JJ quoting himself from an earlier message:
"The Jews were meticulous record keepers and this indicates that there was a beginning of a new cycle around 4000 BC."
Larry responds with:
"You say 'THIS indicates ....' What is 'THIS' that you are talking about?"
JJ:
Their record keeping.
[Note: The following was extracted from Keys Of Knowledge Spiritual Discussion Group Message No. 32242 -- Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:15 pm]
JJ quoting himself from a previous message:
"I cannot find any other believer in the Second Coming from the Sixties or Seventies who definitely stated that Christ would not appear before the year 2000."
To this Dennis writes:
"JJ. I think I found one believer. I thought you'd be interested in the following:
"Bruce R. McConkie taught on page 498 of 'Doctrinal New Testament Commentary' Copyright 1973, that Christ will not come until at least after the year 2021. I'll type the quote below.
"The reason I remember this is that I taught school in Ashton, Idaho from 1972-76 and I taught the gospel doctrine class 3 of those 4 years. It was a 3 year course and I taught all 3 of McConkie's books. I remember that he said from the instruction manual that it was his belief that the year would be around 2023 or after. Of course I don't have the manual.
"I believe that it will be way after the year 2025 and I base my belief partly on the following.
"McConkie's Quote:
"'And the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years--the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)'
"'Thus our Lord is not destined to return when the seventh thousand years first commences. Plagues. Destruction, fire, blood shed , war, and desolation -- all of incomparable power and degree -- are to sweep the earth after the opening of the seventh seal and before the Second Coming. These are announced in the 8th and 9th chapters of Revelation.'
"'According to the apparent chronology set forth in D&C 88:93-94 there shall be a great sign in heaven, then shall come the destruction of the great and abominable church; and then: "There shall be silence in heaven for the space of half and hour' and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled; And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him." (D&C 88:93-96)'
"'What is meant by the half hour of silence has not yet been revealed. If it is to be reckoned on the basis of 'the Lord's time' of 1000 years to a day, the duration would be some 21 of our years.' (2 Pet 3:8)"
JJ's response:
This correlation from both the Bible and D&C is pretty obvious and I was surprised that I could find no one else who had seen it. It looks like McConkie did and actually accepted it. He was not quite so bold as to say when the Seventh thousand years would begin. I'm surprised he did not get criticized by the other General Authorities for being even this specific.
[Note: The following was extracted from Keys Of Knowledge Spiritual Discussion Group Message No. 32245 -- Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:08 am]
Larry:
"Quite frankly I don't see the connection. Lots of civilizations have been good 'record keepers' so I don't necessarily see any connection between that and the beginning of a 7,000 year cycle where each 1,000 years represents a 'day' unto the Lord. Maybe the idea of this cycle is correct, but to say that it is because of 'record keeping' just doesn't sound particularly convincing -- more like a non sequitur than anything else."
JJ:
The Bible is the only book I know about that claims to be a record covering from 4004 BC to the time of Christ. I'm sure the history is not 100 percent accurate but I see no reason to completely reject the idea that some type of record keeping began with a new cycle around 6,000 years ago. If it was 10,000 years, so what? The Bible still gives Christians the basis for seven cycles of time and that was what I used for my correspondence. I based my final conclusion not on the Bible being infallible or DK being wrong but on inner confirmation and a spiritual experience. The seven cycle thing was merely a seed thought.
Larry:
"So maybe you were right about Christ not returning before 2,000; but at the same time, wrong about all the reasons?"
JJ:
I would say inner confirmation is the right reason. As I have said many times one cannot accurately predict the future from the Bible using black and white interpretation. Only through the soul can one see correctly. The Bible can supply seed thoughts and give confirmation to the Law of Correspondences.
Larry:
"Don't know. Don't know that it is terribly important. Usually prophets claim fame because of what they predict will happen, and not for predicting that something won't happen. :)"
JJ:
I've never claimed to be a prophet. If I did I would have to maintain I was giving you the infallible word of God and then sooner or later I would be wrong because not even God can predict all the details of the future. End results and cycles can be predicted, but not the details.
For instance, a year ago no one in the universe could have predicted the exact words in this post.
The point of my post on the subject of prediction was far from proclaiming the Bible is 100 percent reliable or proclaiming the record keeping of the Jews is infallible. Instead it was that literal reliance on the scriptures will produce error and what I did was an anomaly, not something I can produce regularly.
I therefore find it amusing that, I, who am not bound by literal interpretation, made a literally correct prediction that corresponds literally to the Bible whereas those who do see it literally cannot make one right prediction from it.
Copyright © 2007 by JJ Dewey, All Rights Reserved