2006-10-6 05:43:00
Ruth writes:
Where did you get the idea that Bush received a message from Christ himself/itself? Did Bush say so?
No, Bush has said nothing about it even though he has been accused of such things. The Dark Brothers know about his revelation and seek to diminish it by making it into a mockery, even though Bush has not revealed it.
I received a revelation on this from the mind of Christ. It is your right to believe I may be deceived and I have taught you to question all things. However, I am absolutely sure of my answer.
Ruth:
What about the rest of us who are able to contact the Christ within? Do our messages count?
If you believe Christ, or the soul has spoken something else to you then you should go with it. However, two contradictory messages cannot be right. Do you really believe you received a contrary message or could it merely be a reflection of your feelings on the war?
Ruth:
Frankly, I for one do not believe Bush received any word from Christ. Indeed, the Christ is not trying to push his own idea of freedom down the throats of people; neither should Bush.
There is only one version of true freedom. That is that people get to determine their own destiny. It's impossible to push freedom down people's throats as all people want freedom.
Ruth:
Trying to make changes among people not ready to do so should not be attempted. Now the different sects in Iraq are slaughtering each other. They were doing this before we came and they are doing it now. You of all people know that change must come from inside.
If we had this mindset after World War II we would have not tried to introduce freedom in Nazi Germany or in Japan where the Emperor was looked upon as God. Many people then thought as do you and believed that it was impossible for these two countries to ever enjoy a democracy. They were dead wrong. They misjudged the desire of the common man and woman to be free.
Ruth:
To the Iraqi people we are just another dominating outside interference.
Not quite. It is true that the majority wish that our troops did not have to be there. The leadership in Iraq, however, wants our troops to stay until things are stabilized because they realize the potential bloodbath that could occur if we withdrew.
It is interesting that only 6 percent of the 3.5 million Kurds in Iraq want the troops out. Why? Because they fear genocide thrust upon them without our protection. Saddam Hussein attempted to destroy them with WMDs he possessed earlier and fortunately did not destroy them all. There are still many Saddam loyalists left who would like to see them wiped off the face of the earth.
It is interesting that many who wanted us to invade Rwanda and now Dufar to stop the killing think it is horrible that we are in Iraq when our presence there is preventing the slaughter of perhaps millions of lives.
Ruth:
This is not to condone the actions of the Taliban and others like them. On the contrary, they are absolutely obscene. But the Iraqi adults are not children. They themselves must demand change, become a cohesive force for good, learn tolerance, ideas of unity and compassion realizing that force and violence are not the way.
If we can be a successful big brother to Germany and Japan and help them then why not continue the process? We cannot have peace on earth and goodwill to men until most of the people of the earth have basic freedoms such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Many forget that it took about ten years to create stability in those two nations after the war and Harry Truman's poll ratings were much lower than Bush's have ever been. His was down to 29 percent. Now history is revising its view of him and many are calling him one of the great presidents.
Patrick Henry represented the view of the true disciple when he said, "Give me liberty or give me death." Some things are more important than life in the physical body. Non disciples see life in the body as the all important priority.
John C writes:
I stated that even though the Christian religion no longer resorts to physical violence to enforce its will, it still wields the power of the beast on the astral and mental levels, as it seeks to further enslave the hearts and minds of mankind.
Agreed, but its power to use unjust authority is waning and its days are numbered. The power of the Beast finds greener pastures than the Christian Church at the present time.
John C:
Yeah, but it's still OK to hate Gays, and New Agers (whom they consider modern-day witches). If they weren't barred from killing them by the government, would they still be killing them?
Their numbers are decreasing and many Christians are quite tolerant. Some Christian Churches are even geared toward new agers and others to gays.
John C:
I don't know why some religious folk in this country want to turn back the clock of progress and go back to a theocracy, with its attendant loss of personal liberties.
Mainly because they misread the scriptures and see Christ as an absolute, but "benevolent dictator." He was not a dictator when he was here last time and will not turn into one when he comes again.
John C:
The founders of America certainly had an ideal of freedom, but the idea was not fully formed. They had the idea of freedom for themselves, but did not allow the same freedom for others. I was shocked, for example, to find out on a tour in Philadelphia that Catholics and Jews, in colonial times, had to meet secretly behind closed doors.
It is interesting that many religious people think we live in the most evil time in history. If they studied history they would see that we have made a lot of progress.
John C:
Then, why does Bush want to restrict the freedoms of decent Americans, all in the name of fighting terrorism?
What freedom are you talking about? I have had none of my freedoms restricted and know of no one else who has unless they are a potential terrorist. In that case I would say that going after terrorists is in the interests of freedom. If we had experienced two more 911s in the past five years we would indeed be seeing a devastating threat to freedom.
The average person is about a million times more likely to lose his freedom because of the spying of a traffic cop than be affected by the current administration. It makes no sense to me to get upset over the very slight possibility of loss of freedom from the war on terror and not get upset over traffic cops who are the most intrusive force in this country.
John C:
Why are all those who disagree with him or question him in any way labeled as either terrorists or terrorist sympathizers?
I'm a news junkie and I see all the stuff that's out there and I don't see people being labeled such for just disagreeing. I have seen a number of people sympathetic to terrorists being accurately labeled as such. Ramsey Clark is a good example of such a sympathizer.
John C:
What I am really afraid of is people who simply use their 1st Amendment right to criticize the government will be so labeled and forfeit their rights.
Who cares how we are labeled? I certainly do not. People can label me any way they want. It in no way takes away my freedom to speak. Now if someone wants to pass a law restricting my freedom to speak - that's another matter. I only see this coming from enemies of George Bush.
John C:
There are other alternatives to continuing to fight a failed war or a complete withdrawal. One principle which Bush has yet to learn is that of ADJUSTMENT. You mentioned CORRECTION, which flourishes in the midst of freedom.
I think you are right here. He has a vision of the desired end result but needs some more imagination to pull it off.
John C:
Instead, Bush has restricted the free flow of information from his advisors to him, and to the citizens of this country.
His enemies make this claim but many close to him maintain he does listen to counsel and likes to listen to opposing points of view before making decisions.
John C:
A mistake a novice disciple can make is to plough straight ahead without adjusting his course. This seems to me to play into the hands of the dark side just as much, as cutting and running. They don't care how Bush fails; only that he fails.
We also made a lot of mistakes in World War II and even in that obvious important conflict many wanted to cut and run. In an important conflict moving forward is always better than moving backward.
In the Vietnam War the North Vietnamese doggedly fought on with little change of strategy and pushed us back merely because they did not quit. Their dogged determination caused them to defeat an enemy much stronger then themselves just because they would not quit. There's a lot to be said for not quitting. The first one who quits looses - no matter how smart he is.
John C:
I don't care whether he received a message from Christ, John the Beloved, DK, or some advanced initiate.
I, on the other hand, care a lot. Whatever message there is that comes from Christ carries great weight with me because he is much more spiritually advanced than myself and sees from a greater angle of vision. If such a message did not make sense then I would seek confirmation from my soul.
John C:
To say it came from "Christ himself" seems like an appeal to follow authority, for its own sake.
I speak of a personal communication I received which is the truth the way I see it. To speak the highest one knows is not an unjust use of authority. If I demanded the group believe me just because I say it and discourage then from checking with their own souls then that would be unjust. On the other hand I do have some just earned authority and I hope the students use this to give my words enough weight to desire to find out for themselves.
How do they find out?
Ask the Christ himself to give you an answer. See what happens. You must be completely open to all possibilities and be prepared to accept any answer or nothing will happen.
John C:
What concerns me more is whether Bush CONTINUES to be guided by Christ, or by some higher power, or whether he simply took the one message and is blindly running with the one directive, and not seeking guidance every step along the way.
This is a valid concern. He was not given a roadmap. The karma of humanity does not warrant one. The biggest danger is all the negativity thrown at him with hatred and thought forms. This makes it difficult for him to stay centered in the light, but his intent is in the direction of the soul and he sincerely prays daily for strength. All should pray for him whether they agree with him or not.
John C:
The other thing that concerns me is in following Christ, is he following the principles of Christ? We had a lengthy discussion between Dan and Woody about whether the gods lie and deceive, or simply withhold information which we are not yet ready to receive. The impression I am getting out of this administration is that they are deliberately deceiving us about many aspects of this war.
I've seen less deception with this war than any other war I have studied. Some say he is deceptive because he tries to give a positive image of winning in the end. Every leader of every war or even football game has done this. What kind of coach tells the players all the negative truths at halftime? "Well, it looks like you idiots are going to loose. Let's just forfeit."
No matter how bad things get he will try and energize the team and make them believe they can win: - then sometimes they come from behind and win.
John C:
Another thing. In the D&C (LDS Doctrine and Covenants), the Lord says that it is the plans of man, not the plans of God that are frustrated. If he was following the plan laid out by Christ, wouldn't it be more evident?
That same D&C said there was to be a temple built in Jackson County Missouri in the generation of Joseph Smith. That did not happen. The will of God is never frustrated in the long run but it is in the short run.
If you think we are not united now you should study the history of the Civil War. Not only was there division between the North and the South but there was further division in the North. Without an initiate like Lincoln dealing with the situation we would be two countries today and we could still be dealing with slavery.
John C:
He is doing a poor job of convincing the public of the need for this war. People don't understand the need for it. People aren't really convinced that this country is at war, when the government doesn't act like it is at war.
Some people have greater talent in speaking to people's feelings. In this area he is no Clinton, Reagan or Kennedy. I think he is doing his best in this area and realizes his limitations.
John C:
If he was really not afraid of losing poll ratings, he would tell us the complete truth about the situation over there, without revealing sensitive details that would show our hand to the enemy.
I think he is less influenced by poll numbers than any president I have known. I don't see any truth about Iraq being kept from us. Anything I have wanted to know I have found readily available.
John C:
If his cause is indeed just, he should make a greater effort to get the American people on his side.
Agreed, but this is not his talent.
I found it interesting that when he ran the first time that he missed his first crucial debate because of some date he had with Laura. This was unheard of for a presidential candidate. Some wondered at the time if he even wanted or cared about becoming president and his poll rating plunged for a time. He's always had an odd disregard of doing the right things to make him popular.
John C:
I still wonder if this is going to work. Nobody from the outside had to come in and impose the idea and tradition of freedom on the Western world. We pretty much figured it out on our own. Then, we had to fight for it, and secure it by the shedding of blood. But, it is we who did it for ourselves. Somebody didn't come in from the outside and impose it upon it.
But the victors in the war imposed (if one can impose freedom) on the royalists who outnumbered the rebels. These had freedom come to them from the outside - for they resisted it.
Also see my comments on Japan and Germany.
John C:
It is better to keep our eyes open to any and all possibilities, rather than pin our "hopes" on some fixed idea of how it's going to happen.
Some things in the future are fixed, others are not. It is the destiny of humanity to obtain life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not for just a few but for all nations. This is fixed because this ideal lies at the heart of the human spirit. What is not fixed is how long it will take or the exact path to accomplishment.
John C:
It appears to me that Bush is amassing more and more power to himself, and he gets away with it, by playing upon the peoples' emotions of fear, and their need to be protected by an ever more powerful government.
I do not see it this way at all, but do not have time to go into a discussion on it.
Laura writes:
How can war spread the seeds of freedom?
We have seen this happen numerous times. The Revolutionary war paved the way for a free country. The Civil War freed the slaves. World War II brought freedom to Germany, Italy and Japan.
That doesn't mean all wars are good, but some do accomplish positive things.
Laura:
I see war as division and nothing to do with uniting.
Most of the uniting in the history of the world came through war. Sometimes the union was a good thing and sometimes not.
Laura:
Religion is no different. It divides people up and does not unite so it is as bad as war and killing.
Depends on the religion. They all have their faults, but they are not all bad. Religious people give much more to charity than non religious people for instance.
Laura:
I don't see any good purpose that war serves unless it is to make some rich and others poorer. War is a waste of time!
Most of the rich would prefer that there be no war. Many of the rich in the past have lost their fortunes because of war. A handful gain power, of course.
Laura:
I think if Christ talked to Bush then Bush got the message all screwed up. I'm so sick of hearing about a war that has no purpose, is based on lies, and I can't believe that people believe those lies.
I've challenged the group several times now to tell me one lie that Bush has told. So far no one has given one. Now I'm sure he has told a few, but I think he is one of our most honest presidents. I haven't been able to find a lie he's told.
Laura:
You said that Jesus set an example by loving his enemies. How then is war showing love of your enemies?
We went to war with Japan and Germany not because we hated them but because we loved freedom and desired it not only for ourselves, but for them. After the war, instead of hating our enemies we loaned them money and sent people to assist them. I think this was an example of loving our enemies.
There is a time and place for all things. The time for war is when it will free the slaves, bring hope to the helpless, freedom to the soul and open avenues of love to spread abroad.
The Japanese who used to loath us now love America and have, of their own free will, erected statues to those who helped them obtain freedom and economic prosperity.
America is a Nation with a mission - and that mission comes from our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace - a peace founded upon the dignity and rights of every man and woman.
George W. Bush,
State of the Union Address, January 2004
Copyright © 2006 by J J Dewey, All Rights Reserved