2006-7-17 12:48:00
Dean:
Well as a matter of fact. It depends what students you are after. If you are looking to encourage ones with short attention span that get hurt feelings easily, that are not wanting your material bad enough to deal with the distractions.
There's nothing wrong with the attention span of those who have complained of disruptions. I'd say this group is paying more attention than the two percent who may want no moderation.
Dean:
Then go for it. If you want to encourage ones that are able to deal with distraction while having the motivation to overcome insults and inconvenience for your truth. Then I would not moderate.
No one but you (who is the only one disrupting the group) is complaining about the sparse moderation. Why attempt to fix something that is working well?
Dean:
Every place on the Internet that I have been in charge of and am in charge of. I have not moderated anything of anyones. Initially for a while it seems to be a very bad decision.
No doubt you have never been in charge of an active list of over 400 people. No moderation was tolerable here for over two years, but I always knew it would have to be implemented when we got so big.
Dean:
Once things settle in. Like the ripple goes away. It becomes possible to build an energy that is able to overcome it. I found it has in the long term a more positive effect. I am not working on just theory. I have experienced it.
You are working on theory because you have never managed a list like this one.
Dean:
The reason why it becomes un-needed to moderate eventually is because of the people that become attracted there learn to build a sort of "force field" against it. Without the safety net of moderation to fall back on.
This makes no sense.
Dean:
Notice how in a school classroom. The teachers try and moderate the trouble makers but it is useless?
Every good teacher can successfully moderate his students. It is far from useless. You are making no sense again.
Dean:
What about a class that wants to learn. That truly wants to seek? Then where is the trouble makers. They soon leave in boredom.
If the troublemakers leave for any reason then this is a good thing.
Dean:
If you moderate they also leave. But it is equal to the teacher trying to set the trouble makers right. It may seem to work. But why are they there in the first place? How do you know who is the real trouble maker?
Why do you keep asking questions to which the answer is obvious to everyone? The troublemakers stand out like a sore thumb and it takes no rocket science to spot them.
Dean:
It is only your opinion. The real test is to gather the good students. And then the trouble makers will find them boring And leave.
That has flatly not been the case during our years of having an unmoderated list. You are denying reality here that we have witnessed. The truth is the opposite. The trouble makers were much more likely to leave a moderated list.
Dean:
When a troublemaker enters. He finds everyone is working really well. This is very discouraging.
Is this why you keep getting discouraged?
Dean:
Group power wins over the need for moderation. Just like good students overpower trouble makers.
Experience of doing this both ways proves you are incorrect.
Dean:
It's not the way you moderate. Or repress the student. It's the way you go about attracting and teaching the students. That leads to a good working class.
It's the whole package.
Dean:
It turns out that people are able to be strong enough to resist distraction without moderation. If you encourage it.
I encouraged it and it did not work once the group had over 200 members.
Dean:
Just like Chris of sealed portion repressed your opinion. Because he believes it's for the best. Guess what. Your being no different.
Chris never repressed my opinion. I have never been on a list owned by him. Chris, or anyone else, has a right to run their list however they please.
Dean:
No matter how neutral you think you are. Under moderation you can't be. It always becomes tainted with judgment that is unavoidable.
I have no desire to be neutral. If you want a neutral list or teacher then you need to go elsewhere. We use the Second Key of Judgment here. You probably ought to read Book 3, the Lost Key.
Dean:
If you had kept going and stuck with it. It might have been a bit slower to start off but I believe you would have a totally different list with a different dynamic that you would find interesting.
Doing an unmoderated list of this nature for over two years was plenty of time to get the practical knowledge that you obviously do not have.
Dean:
It is encouraging people to develop these qualities of a good student. To overcome and also encourages to deal with distractions rather than rely on moderation to save them and yourself. a non moderated established group has the much added benifit of a totally unbias atmosphere with more freedom. But with strong good qualities in the people present.
You're blowing smoke. We had similar complaints to yours even with an unmoderated list. Troublemakers complained that they were being overpowered by brainwashed followers.
Dean:
What is the process for an un-moderated group to be established?
We know the process. We've done it for years and we passed the practical application of it. The current course will continue.
Dean thinks that if we had continued with no moderation the following would have happened:
In addition through this process the group is not bias in anyway and thinks entirely for themself--not in your favour or anyones.
If any higher truth presents itself to the group which people do not understand. Then there is no danger of it being filtered out. And the truth wins. And then the group learns.
Dream on.
Dean:
Free speech on the internet is different if you shouted fire here. No-one would care.
I'm sure everyone sees the fallacy of your logic here. No one is complaining of shouting fire on the internet. Duh...we were talking about a crowed theater.
The extremely obvious point that seemed to go way over your head was that in certain circumstances it is beneficial to regulate speech or anything else. Again the Second Key of Judgment must be used.
Dean:
If a student tries to teach algebra in a Spanish class on the internet. Will the students wanting to learn Spanish care?
Of course they would care. Duh...
Dean:
There is a story of a great master of wisdom. Who was to give a talk one day to a lot of people. But he showed up 8 hours late. When he did finally show up he appeared drunk and flirted with one of the girls. And then fell over on to the ground. Many were so disgusted they complained and then left. A few remained.
After all the disgusted ones had left. The master stood up in front of the remaining few and told them they were the teachable ones. And started the class.
This principle is the same with moderating and teaching over the internet. If such a small thing puts them off. No wonder they leave. It's naturally for the best.
This guy was no master but was stupid and manipulating as well as deceptive.
Dean:
Moderating is equal to trying to fix something that isn't broken.
You keep getting things backwards.
To change the list to being unmoderated would be to attempt to fix something that is not broken.
Now quit worrying about what I teach, what the members do here or how the list is run and if you are not satisfied go create something with which you can be happy.
You need to ask yourself why you are the only one complaining.
Each day comes bearing its own gifts. Untie the ribbons.
Ruth Ann Schabaker
Copyright © 2006 by J J Dewey, All Rights Reserved