Eternal Experience

2006-7-5 15:19:00

SH writes:

Nice job. Obviously I haven't yet come up with a counter-example illustrating that it's possible for something to have a beginning and no end.

Mind if I pull out a Jesus quote?

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Matthew 24:35

(Identical wording appears in Mark and Luke, and similar wording shows up in some mormon "scriptures".)

That doesn't necessarily prove my point, but can be interpreted in a way that supports it; that is, in a way that leaves open the possibility that Jesus' words had a beginning point but now they won't ever "pass away".

JohnC gave a good answer on this when he said:

The words which Jesus spoke are eternal because he taught principles, not facts. Principles are eternal. They existed before Jesus taught them, and they will exist long after the heavens and the earth have passed away.

The only way to speak words that shall not pass away is to speak of principles that have already existed for eternity in the higher spheres. Someday the form that Jesus gave them will be lost but other Christed ones will pick up the principles, even on future solar systems.


I think that I read in one of your books the idea that God hasn't arrived at static perfection, but rather is constantly experimenting through us. If so, isn't it possible that some such experiment might yield new results that are worth keeping henceforth?

Yes, henceforth for this universe or even a chain of universes but someday it will be necessary to let go of everything and begin anew. The fact that we lose all our memories of experiences when we incarnate in a new life is representative of what happens on a vaster scale in the universe.


Consider any event. The condition of "this event has happened and is in the past" has a definite beginning point. Does it also have an end point? Does something that has happened ever stop being in the past?

This is probably the best challenge to this principle I have seen. The reason behind the beginning and ending principle is form itself. All things that have form have a beginning and end for sooner or later all form changes shape or loses its shape and is reduced back to its eternal idea.

There is no argument that every event and experience has a beginning and end. If you ride a Ferris wheel there is a beginning and end to that ride. There is also a beginning and end to the Ferris wheel that created the ride. But it seems that there was a beginning to the experience or even of the ride itself, that event will eternally exist as a memory in time and space.

To determine whether an experience in time and space has no end as a memory of an event in the past one must ask if it is created and sustained by form. The answer is yes. All events in the past can only be recalled by reconstructing form through the power of mind, pictures or symbols. All such forms begin and end. Time itself has a beginning and ending with the creation and dissolution of the universe. What is eternal about an experience is the point in time and space in which it occurred. All points in time and space originate in the formless eternal worlds. What happens at these points has a beginning and end and after the time and space of this universe comes to an end even reconstructing the memory will have an end.

The question to ask at this point is an old one. If an event occurred in time and that time has passed away and there is no one to recall the event, does the event still exist in the past?

This recalls the logic in the Course in Miracles and other teachings that I find somewhat sophomoric. It goes something like this:  This world is created by illusion. Therefore, the experiences we think we have had did not happen. If they did not happen then they are not eternal.

I look at it like this:  This world is created on illusionary principles, but the power that created it is real and the experiences we have are real. The principle of experience itself never had a beginning and will not have an end and thus the effect of all experience does not have a beginning and end. The form of all experience has beginning and end but each experience is linked to all other experience making each point in time and space part of an eternal chain.


How do we know for sure that eternity itself didn't have a beginning? Maybe there were other things tried first, but they didn't work out.

Time and space which is eternity as we know it had a beginning.


I'm starting to feel like I'm arguing about the nature of things bigger than what I can get my head around. Sort of like if cats argued over how a television works.

Yes, we are into the mind boggling area here that could even drive an Einstein up the wall.

Always be wary of any helpful item that weighs less than its operating manual.
Terry Pratchett