Summing-Up

2006-6-14 05:45:00

Kimber:

To me this seems to be exactly what JJ describes when he talks about there being no "present" in form because the present is "complete stillness" which doesn't happen in the worlds of form. The Stillness is within and can be reached in meditation, but it cannot be demonstrated in form. I could very well be misunderstanding JJ but I took his meaning to be that infinity does not exist in the world of form. Correct me if I am wrong on that point, JJ. Movement is necessary for the worlds of form to exist. The movement creates time so all worlds of form have time--a past, a present, and a future.

Yes, that pretty accurately describes what I have been teaching.

Kimber:

I don't think that Dean is trying to say that anyone can read tomorrow's newspaper before it has been written. I think that he is simply referencing the still point--that is eternal. That from which all is made manifest.

Dean is saying something quite different than this. He sees that there would be no existence without form and motion within that form. He sees that from God's point of view everything is happening at once, that there is no past or future even in the worlds of form.

When the Eternal Now is reached the state of being does not identify with form. There is no motion, time or space in this awareness.

He doesn't think we can read tomorrow's newspaper but thinks it is already printed. My contention is that if he is right someone should be able to read it.

Kimber:

In my mind I see that everything possible springs from this complete stillness of "the present moment".

I agree. Within this Eternal Now is no form, but the primordial undifferentiated substance from which all things spring.

Kimber:

I think the New Agers call this "The Eternal Now?" Is this infinite present moment the same as the stillness that JJ describes, and is it also the same as your eternal one instant Dean? Is the real argument here semantics?

I don't think so. Often the problem is semantics. Members will sometimes disagree with me just because of a different use of words and when we straighten out the communication we wind up agreeing. Dean and I have a true disagreement. He thinks everything down to the tiniest detail has already been decided and brought into existence and is happening now. It appears to him that we are only in a small section of time and space because of the limitations of our consciousness.

I see the future as malleable yet the end of our evolution is pretty much set - like the end product of a blueprint is a house. In the building process though, many unexpected events occur.

I think Dean has done a good job in arguing his point, a point that can never be proven or disproved with the concrete mind. I'm sure he must have generated a few new brain cells in the process.

There's more I could write on this subject, but its time to get back to my other writings.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Plato (427 BC - 347 BC)