Creation IS

2006-6-3 04:02:00

Dean:

"I have been putting this question out for a while in a number of different ways. One of the things I see as disturbing the overall accepted foundational beliefs is the following question.

"Since something can not come from nothing. How does anything exist?"

JJ:

Every time I look up at the stars in the sky I inwardly exclaim to myself that the greatest miracle of all is that anything exists.

It would be fantastic enough if there were just one rock in existence in all the universe, but to think that there are star systems and an uncountable number of galaxies as well as invisible worlds teaming with life and energy boggles the mind indeed.

Here are some basic statements:

Something does exist.
We must ask ourselves what exists? That which is known to exist is form, time, space, energy consciousness, intelligence and life. There may, of course, be other items of existence beyond our realization.
That which exists either had to come from something or nothing.
Since something cannot come from nothing then all that exists came from something.
Because something cannot come from nothing this means that nothing has never been and existence has always been and is eternal.
That which exists changes in form, state and location but the source of existence always continues to be.
Existence cannot be without creation.
This means that the creative process is eternal.
Creation takes place through cause and effect.
This means that cause and effect is eternal and is behind all things.
Because cause and effect is eternal there can be no first cause. Cause and effect just IS as existence just IS.
The eternal source of cause and effect just IS. For this we should be thankful, for without it we could not BE or BECOME.

Dean:

"It reveals that evolution as a principle of truth can not exist as a progression towards something that is not yet present, achieved, or manifested."

JJ:

Then how I am progressing toward writing this post? It is not yet finished and there is no post floating around in some void that I can grab. As I type I am progressing toward creating something that has never been.

Just as existence is self-evident because our consciousness proves it, so is evolution. We experience ourselves evolving, creating and changing. There is no denying this unless we deny reality and existence itself.

Dean:

"The current belief I see been presented on the list is that evolution produces the impossible. Something out of nothing."

JJ:

I am not creating this post out of nothing. There is form, energy and intelligence involved as well as hardware.

Why do you keep saying that evolution would mean we create something from nothing? Saying this does not make it true.

Dean:

"Everything is here, always has been here. And always will be here."

JJ:

This may be a fun mind twister, but my post I am writing is not here at this moment 2:30 AM June 3, 2006. Because it is not here it means you are incorrect. It's as simple as that. Neither is the next universe here yet. Neither is peace on earth here yet. It all has to be evolved. I can decide at any time to not evolve this post.

Dean:

"To claim anything else is now flying in the face of reality and that which makes sense according to the premise and options presented."

JJ:

I see no evidence of this.

Dean:

"The overall point I wish to make is the answer to the question is that something was always here. And that answer must shatter a few of the foundational beliefs about evolution if you are a true seeker. And not just believe what you want to believe."

JJ:

It shatters no such thing. Existence can only be if there is cause and effect and cause and effect produces evolution. The only thing that does not change is change. Change is eternal. It has always been and will always be. There could be no existence without it. Without it there would be nothing, or NO THING.

Everything could not exist all at one time because time is produced by change. By going outside of time and space you enter into a different state that is sometimes called the Eternal Now. But all things happening in time and space are not happening in the Eternal Now for it is a different separate world with other things happening therein.

We can go in and out of time and space, but all time and space is not occurring at one time for time is created by motion and if all were occurring at one time there could be no motion, hence no time, hence nothing would be occurring and nothing would exist.

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)