The Greatest Spiritual Virtue

2005-9-7 06:10:00

Johann:

"What is it that bothers you? Bias in the media, or having an individual opinion (i.e. having a political colour) that unfortunately does not match with the media?"

JJ:

It is the bias that bothers me, and the hypocrisy behind it, no matter where it comes from. I have already stated this. Why do you doubt my word?

Johann:

"However, apart from the humanitarian side there is much more. This is supposed to be a spiritual list. Have you all ever thought about the root cause of all the calamities that are occurring lately in the world and why there is needed such a heavy control by the authorities that is instituted during the last few years in the US?"

JJ:

If you actually lived here you would see that there has been no noticeable change in the heaviness of control. Because of the bias of the press many fear it, but maybe one in a million see it. It is like a boogie man that isn't there that causes fear to many in illusion.

The traffic cops are about 100,000 times more intrusive than the illusion you are presenting.

Johann:

"There is something sinister being played out, which is much deeper than all that is occurring at first sight."

JJ:

And this would be...?

Johann quoting JJ:

"I do not believe gun control has a lot to do with it. Here in Idaho almost every man and his dog has several guns. This just may be the most gun toten' people in the world yet our murder rate is only 2.9 per 100,000 which is much lower than Canada at 5.45, Denmark 5.17 and Germany at 4.20. This illustrates that it is the consciousness within that needs stimulated more than government controlling the circumstances without."

JJ:

I admit that if government could confiscate almost every possible weapon, as Hitler did, then crime rate would go down, but at what cost? It is worth a little risk to have quality of life and freedom of choice, else why drive a car?

Johann:

"The figures you present are not accurate. I don't know where you get your information from about the murder statistics JJ, but I would suggest you to check this again. It is far outside the reality."

"USA murder rate is 5.6 in 2002.( http://www.crime.org/do/Home )

"Canada: murder rate 1.9 in 2002 ( http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal02.htm?sdi=crime%20rates )

"Denmark: murder rate 1.5 in 2000 ( http://www.nationmaster.com/country/da/Crime )

"Germany: murder rate 1.3 in 2000 ( http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gm/Crime )

"EU overall murder rate: 1.6 in 2001 ( http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf )"

JJ

The statistics I gave are supported by dozens of sites on the Internet. Here are two:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm

http://pearlyabraham.tripod.com/htmls/myth-guns2.html

Give me credit for not manufacturing statistics. One explanation is it appears that mine are from a source from 1991, the only one I could find on quick notice. What is odd though is that (according to your source) the murder rate in Canada went from 5.45/100,000 in 1991 to 1.9 in 2002.

Denmark from 5.17 to 1.5 and Germany from 4.20 to 1.3.

Something's fishy about these statistics. I can't think of any reason for such a drastic drop. It sounds like someone may have revised methods of taking statistics. I couldn't find any good list of statistics over a period of time nor any reason for such a dramatic drop in these countries, if it really occurred. If anyone could find any more information or reason for the drop I would appreciate it.

Interestingly the latest statistic for the murder rate in Idaho in one of your links is only 1.2 per 100,000. Pretty good for a state where there majority own guns.

Johann:

"But besides, your arguments are false: you suggest to allow guns because 'It is worth a little risk to have quality of life and freedom of choice, else why drive a car?' There is NO excuse against having guns. Allowing guns is an explicit invitation to use them, meaning to allow killing people out of violence, vengeance and fear. Is this giving you a more safe feeling? But is this not ego who always clings to life out of fear?"

JJ:

It sounds like you have the problem with fear. You seem to fear guns. Do you also fear cars? They are much more deadly. You seem very concerned about control here that does not exist and fear something sinister is at play with no evidence. Then after being concerned about control here you want more control, gun control as well as more controlled social programs.

Johann:

"These arguments are exactly illustrating the American conservative morality of 'them and us'".

JJ:

It is obvious you do not live here for the 'them and us' mentality is demonstrated more among the liberals at present. I find the conservatives much more inclusive at present though both sides need work.

Johann:

"Is this truly spiritual? Is this the quality of life we can gain by possessing guns and allowing us to use them and simply kill people regardless of defense or not? Ever heard of the eternal Law of Cause and Effect? Even thinking about it will cause karmic repercussions."

JJ:

Freedom to own guns will have a greater positive effect than negative. So will freedom to own Drano (drain cleaner) even though it is deadly to drink.

Johann:

"It is the intention that is behind this thought. Energy follows thought. You have no idea how destructive arms and weapons are in the mindset of tens of millions of people and how this is attracting the astral dark forces and entities that are influencing a whole nation with heavy karmic effects."

JJ:

I think it is you that doesn't have the correct idea.

Johann:

"I'll offer you an esoteric principle: when a massive amount of people think of desiring and possessing a gun, which can be used to kill, whether it is defense or not, it is building up a so called aeon. This aeon is an animated sinister and very dark thought cloud consisting of all the eternal energized thought elementals that have been send out in the atmosphere by humanity. When it is massively build up by continuously sending out the same thoughts and being energized by them, than it is becoming animated once upon a time. And this animated hungry aeon will from its side try to influence people to keep thinking in the same way, which will guarantee his food that is energy."

JJ:

You must not know law-abiding citizens who own guns. These are not the type of people who build up thought forms of killing. On the contrary, those who are for forced gun control build up a thought form that gives power to big brother and leads to a loss of free thought and movement in their lives.

I find those who want gun control to be much more fearful than those who believe in freedom to have guns.

Johann:

"This aeon is most destructive and dangerous, since it will instigate violence in order to create an atmosphere of defense mechanisms and control including the introduction and use of guns. Think deeply about this esoteric phenomenon, for it explains a lot about what is happening in the US right now."

JJ:

It doesn't explain it at all for the areas with the strongest gun control have the highest murder rates. States like Idaho where I live in peace have low rates of violence. If your theory was correct Idaho would be worse off than Washington DC. It is much better off.

Johann:

"There are far more aeons apart from this specific aeon and it will be clear how poisoned the astral earth atmosphere has become by the ignorant materialistic desires and fear thoughts from humanity during thousands of years. This has created an energetic atmosphere, which is oppressive and dark. Don't you feel this?"

JJ:

No I do not feel this. Rise up in consciousness my brother and feel the good, the beautiful and the true.

You are taking the side of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and many others who believed in the forced confiscation of guns. These people saw that which they believed to be good and decided to force men to do good.

There's nothing wrong with not owning a gun or in owning one if free will is allowed. But the greatest evils on this planet are always caused by those who seek to force others to do good.

If you believe that we should not own guns then educate the public about it, but do not seek to impose your will by force or you will be taking the side of great cosmic evil which is seeking to gain a foothold on the earth.

Freedom is the greatest spiritual gift in the universe. To seek to take away freedom from law abiding citizens is not a spiritual quest.

  

"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."
  -- Malcolm X (1925 - 1965)