2005-3-15 06:42:00
John C Asks:
Why are we interpreting Revelation in terms of a science which is in its infancy and which mankind cannot understand?
No one says that we cannot understand it. Many understand the basics of it.
We are also in the infancy of developing the potential of the computer. Would it make sense to throw your computer away because there is much more to come?
John C:
Do we even know enough about the "science" to be able to apply it?
Yes. We know enough to put a number of principles to use. I certainly have in my life.
John C:
Why would John write something which after 2,000 years is still largely unintelligible to most if not all mankind, if what you say about astrology is true, and if we are going by the astrological interpretation of the Book of Revelations?
First, we are not going "by the astrological interpretation of the Book of Revelations." But if astrological symbols are applicable in several of the many verses we will examine them and see how they apply.
As far as being unintelligent goes, the whole of the book of Revelations is much more complicated to the average person than is astrology. If we were to be turned off a things because of difficulty, interpreting Revelation would be the top of the list of most people.
John C:
I can't believe that the same person who claims to be a servant of Christ would give "kindergarten lessons" in The Immortal, which are plain and simple enough for a child to understand and then turn around and teach "astrophysics", which only a few self-styled mystics can pretend to understand, in the Book of Revelations.
The granddaddy of the astrophysics of spiritual teachings are the writings of DK. If we were to shy away from the complex on this list we would avoid him like the plague.
The goal here is to make the complex simple. This generally happens when the truth is explained in plain English. I've written quite a bit about astrology in the past and no one has complained that it was difficult to understand as I presented it. Hopefully this will be the case when astrology is brought into play in the future.
John C:
JJ claims that astrology is a "science", yet we don't know enough about it to cause effects or predict results, so, given that, how useful is astrology as a means of interpreting the Book of Revelations?
Personality prediction is only a small part of astrology and this has nothing to do with the present analysis. Currently we are talking about the symbols involved and the meaning John was trying to portray.
There are three basic principles involved in astrology which are relationships, cycles and symbols. The use of symbols is a key ingredient to both astrology and the Book of Revelation. None of these are an exact science at the present, but a developing science, just as psychology is a developing science in its infancy. Even though psychology is not a mature science this does not mean that what we do know is not useful. It is. Even so it is with the developing science of astrology.
John C:
There MUST be another explanation other than to rely on a science which some of us might understand sometime in the future, but which is currently not understood, and therefore not learnable and not teachable in its true state.
If it is useless to examine the symbols of astrology then we would have to say it is useless to examine the symbols of Revelation. I think both are of value.
John C:
...if our understanding of astrology turns out to be wrong, then wouldn't any interpretation derived from a failed understanding of astrology be wrong as well?
And if our understanding of symbols are wrong then we may be wrong in many of our interpretations of the scriptures and other inspired writings. Does this mean we should not try to understand anything with symbols? Of course not. As the seeker moves ahead his understanding will grow and he will correct his errors and eventually see in the light of day.
John C:
The answer out of this dilemma, as I see it, is to try to interpret Revelations in another model and not rely on astrology, or to somehow prove that the limited astrology which we are using is somehow accurate and reliable.
You seem to be implying that we are using astrology as a base for interpreting the whole book. We could, but we are not. Instead we are applying it to a couple verses. As a base theme we are using "the unveiling of Jesus Christ," because this is what was implied by John himself.
John C:
It takes revelation in order to understand revelation.
Many claim revelation to understand this and other scriptures and most of them disagree with each other showing that someone isn't getting revelation after all. The key is this. When the truth is spoken or written it will be registered with the souls of those who are ready.
Even if I got a revelation on understanding Revelation I would, most likely, not tell you for it may take away from your own use of soul contact in confirming for yourself.
John C:
In other words, John received the "Word" on the Isle of Patmos, and tried to write it up the best he could. For some reason he encoded it, or it appears to be encoded to most readers, and therefore, the message seems corrupted to us, whether it is or not.
It is encoded in symbols just as astrology is. I do not know of anyone who would call this corrupt though.
John C:
We need inspiration and revelation and intuition to understand this, but I keep hearing astrology terms left and right. I don't see how this is any more effective than using the images of orthodox religion.
In finding truth and interpreting symbols we use what works. It is beyond coincidence that John picked not only four astrological symbols, but all four belong to the fixed cross. Four signs belong to the mutable cross, four to the cardinal and four fixed. Obviously, the revealer of the images here incorporated astrological symbols for a reason. We would be remiss in not discovering what that reason is.
John C:
If it's a question of expending our ring-pass-not, then why are we going back to the "same old same old" that everybody is comfortable with
I think the truth is the opposite here. Astrology as it relates to Revelations goes way beyond with what the average Christian is comfortable.
John C:
Sorry, I don't mean to just pick on astrology. The same could be said of any fixed mindset.
I do not see any relation between a fixed mindset and astrology or any other discipline. One could have a fixed mindset about excluding astrology.
John C:
I think we need to look at this whole thing in a new way and not slip back into our comfortable old preconceived ideas.
You, or anyone else are welcome to give us an interpretation that is not a preconceived idea. Go for it.
Meanwhile, we shall explore the four beasts more deeply.
Question:
What do they have to do with the "unveiling of Christ?"
In the end, we will remember, not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Copyright 2005 by J J Dewey