2004-6-25 06:40:00
Robert,
When I read your posts it sounds like I am reading a Benjamin Creme Newsletter. It will be interesting to see what you post when you run out of his material.
You write:
Although illusion is the root source of so-called terrorism, it is not that simple. We all have belief systems and we all have illusions but we all do not murder other people who oppose our beliefs. Illusion for Humanity will exist for a long time and it will become more potent as the race becomes more mental - which is why the birth of Christ in the cave of the heart is essential. The love we must live is a lot more than turning the other cheek - it is the love that eradicates poverty in a world of plenty. It is the love that feeds the 24,000 people who die a day from hunger. It is the love that demands every person in the world has access to clean and sanitary drinking water. It is the love that puts an end to international currency speculation.
JJ:
Here you are arguing apples and oranges. You are taking something with which every civilized person agrees and using it to refute what I have said.
This refutes nothing. We all agree that if we have the spirit of love that we will seek to do all we an to insure that the poor and hungry are receive relief.
Robert:
It is the love that does not spend 450 billion dollars in one year on armaments and warfare.
JJ:
Armaments and warfare can be used for love or hate depending on the motive. I think we all agree that during World War II that the money the Allies spent on war and armaments was based on love and not hate for it freed the world from totalitarianism and saved the Jewish race from complete annihilation.
You are making a statement consciously designed by those above you to drive the whole human race into greater illusion.
Robert:
It is the love that obeys the laws of the United Nations.
JJ:
Then Bush must be obeying the law of Love for enforcing UN resolutions 687 and 1441 by going to war with Iraq.
Robert:
It is the love that guarantees that every child on earth can read and write.
JJ:
It is love if it is accomplished by free will. It is evil and breeds hate if done by forcing people to do what seems to be right. You later say you are against morphing people in our image.
Robert:
It is the love in action that demonstrates the oneness of Humanity.
JJ:
Humanity is not ready to demonstrate this yet. When it does it will happen more through the spirit of good will than any conscious attention on love.
Robert:
There are a few thousand Islamic extremists, religious zealots, who are devoted to their cause of violent attacks on America and a few other western nations and we call these people irrational and under illusion and animals and barbarians and a threat to national security and freedom--and we call these people evil.
JJ:
I would call those evil who wish to destroy an entire race or civilization. What would you call them?
Of course there are many good and decent Moslems, but anyone seeking destruction for destruction's sake is not on the side of virtue.
Those who are planning and executing most of the terror are usually wealthy and well educated. All of those who executed 911 had plenty of money and most were well educated.
Osama Bin Laden is very wealthy and Yasser Arafat is said to be worth over a billion dollars while his people live in squalor.
Robert:
We do this when 3 billion people live on 2 dollars a day or less. We live in luxury compared to the one billion people who live in absolute poverty - and we are pointing fingers at "terrorists" and claiming they are perpetuating evil and injustice?
JJ:
Since Yasser Arafat is one of the richest men in the world then, using your logic his people should hate him for hoarding all the money he receives--same with Osama Bin Laden who lives well while others do not.
Obviously the answer lies deeper than the fact that some are successful and some are not. The poor hate because they are manipulated by wealthy powerful people of evil design. When they are not manipulated they do not hate any more than the rich.
The Western nations are doing a lot to help the poor, but often when food and supplies are sent they are stolen by dictators and warlords and used for political control. Even if we had the means and sought to feed all the people of the world few would get fed because localized powerful people would prevent it.
The only permanent solution is to teach the poor to take care of themselves.
Robert:
We must realize that so-called terrorism will get a lot worse if poverty continues to enthrall half the population of the world.
JJ:
If we sought to feed, clothe and house all the poor living under the terrorist control little would change. They would still see us as the great Satan that must be destroyed and replaced by their ideology.
Robert:
I am not a fan of the materialism that engulfs the affluent western world, especially the G8 nations, but I have plenty of food in my refrigerator and cupboards.
JJ:
It is not any evil materialism to work hard and have plenty to food and drink--as well as a few amenities. Materialism which is destructive comes from priorities. If the person's attention is on the riches of the world for the benefit of self only to the exclusion of spiritual progress then we have a problem. To work hard to have the essentials of life is a virtue. To obtain abundance and then do good with it is also a virtue.
A current materialism that is of great concern are those countries and business who will profit by aiding unstable nations in obtaining nuclear and other Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD's).
Robert:
But if I did not have these things, especially the essentials, can you understand why I would want to see America and her allies crumble?
JJ:
I agree with Blayne here. No, I can't. I would think that in the Middle East they would question why their leaders live in luxury rather than a far off people. Illusion turns things upside down for them.
Robert:
Can you understand why I would have hatred towards a country and a culture that is morphing my country and culture into Americana?
JJ:
You mean like we did with Japan and Germany after WWII? I haven't seen any hate there because they have been morphed.
Robert:
Can you understand why I would have anger when my family and I live in poverty while the American representative in suit and tie declares the freedom of his nation is under attack?
JJ:
Are you working for the Taliban? If not it is difficult to understand this line of reasoning.
I have lost everything a couple times in my life and have been very broke, but not hated anyone. I have never seen myself as poor, because that is not my consciousness.
Robert:
The terrorists of the past few years may not have lived in poverty and al-Qaeda can be sitting under millions of dollars--but these so-called terrorists represent their nations and become heroes and celebrities.
JJ:
This is where some of the illusion fits in and controls the underclass. Dispelling this illusion would do more for the poor than dumping all the food and money of the world in their lap.
Robert:
So how and where does religion fit into this? Their religious beliefs are intertwined into the fabric of their culture and when their culture begins to be erode, their religion begins to erode. The line between culture and religion is so fine that it cannot be seen in many nations. Why would these people NOT take personal offense to the commercialization of their culture/religion?
JJ:
Almost all the commercialization is done through free will, because people are demanding it. Those who do not want it will resent those who do as well as the suppliers. Should the majority of a country be denied abundance because a minority is offended? Positive change always creates disturbance. We could just let be those who are in the stone age and let them live on their two dollars a day, but you seem to be against this also.
Robert:
In the view of many people, the culture of the United States of America represents greedy materialism, the love of money and possessions and the goal of financial profit at the expense of societal values and human suffering - of course there are going to be people who will defend their country/culture/religion from this type of country/culture/religion.
JJ:
Sounds like you have been reading communist newsletters.
Robert:
Today, the United States are giving thirteen cents per hundred dollars of gross national product (GNP) to developing aid ...and it's been estimated that if she gave another thirty-five cents the UN Millennium Project goals would be achieved.
JJ:
We do give that other 35 cents, but receive no credit for it. If you take the money we spend on helping illegal aliens (30-40 billion a year) it surpasses the money much of the world spends on aid.
Robert:
The poorest countries are getting poorer and it would take 35 cents out of every 100 dollars to meet the needs of these poorest countries. And yet some people still wonder why America is seen as a greedy and elite country.
Not once did I state that criminals are not responsible for their actions, nor do I advocate we ignore terrorist cells and allow their type of violence. But we must have a sense of proportion and understand the massive type of violence that greed causes and began to realize the violence of injustice, indifference and ignorance. There will be radical Islamic terrorists for quite some time, just like there will be radical Christian terrorists for quite some time - but we must direct our attention to the essential causes of violence and intently focus on the real problem.
JJ:
I don't think the average American sees himself as some greedy SOB the way you seem to. The average guy has all he can do just to pay his bills and does what he can to help those in need.
It sounds like your solution is through the path of self condemnation and self guilt.
There is a lot of truth in the old cliche that you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
The solution is not to give all our fish to our neighbors but to teach them to fish. JFK's Peace Corp was a great step in this direction.
I have found in my own life that when I just give to others that they will soon demand more and often wind up hating me because I am not giving enough. Overall I have found that helping people through giving is very dangerous. On the other hand, when I have taught others to fish things are different. In this situation both the giver and the receiver benefit and remain friends.
Do you practice what you preach and give to the poor?
Our vices are but our virtues misused. DK
Copyright 2004 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved