John C asks Robert:
While we're at it, why don't you tell us where you got your information so we can check it out?
He got it from Benjamin Creme. He has been asked to lay low of proselytizing for Creme so he didn't mention his name.
Robert still maintains that the average state of evolution of humanity increased 25 fold since the time of Christ. The reason he states for this is that new more advanced souls have come into incarnation.
He points out that since there were only 270 million on earth 2000 years ago and over 6 billion today that more advanced souls had to be brought in.
It is true that when certain spiritual advances come that advanced souls that have not incarnated for long periods will be born. A handful of such souls may already be born, but most of these are awaiting the time when the door to evil will be sealed shut, and such is not yet the case.
To increase the average point of evolution 25X for humanity as a whole would require a large number of such souls indeed. If you study the intelligence of the people of the past compared with the present there is no indication that spiritual evolution has made such an increase.
Robert further states that the lowest 41% of the people of today are at .1 or ten times advanced at the average at the time of Christ. This has no basis in either fact or reason, even if we consider that some more advanced souls have been born
The fact that there are many more people on earth today doesn't necessarily indicate that new intelligent monads are coming into incarnation to fill the void. DK himself tells us that the population explosion is causing entities to incarnate more often to fill the gap. He also states that many are incarnating too soon to absorb the lessons of the past because of this circumstance.
Another important point to consider is this. A doubling of the population does not mean that twice as many souls will be needed for incarnation over an extended period.
Why is this?
Because of the great difference in the mortality rate. For a good portion of recent history the average life span did not even reach the age of thirty. Some estimate it to be as low as 27 in the days of Jesus.
The average life span today is around 75 years. This means that there was almost three times the number of incarnations available for a similar time span 2000 years ago. In other words, the 270 million population in the days of Jesus would provide the birth frequencies as nearly 750 million today.
Even so, it is true that the shear increase in population has shortened the time between incarnations.
From my experience in taking people back into past lives I would guess that the average person (at least in the U.S.) has lived 3-4 lifetimes during the past 2000 years.
Creme again gives an illogical improvable piece of data when he says that average humanity has advanced 25 times the point of the average in the time of Jesus. When one studies the history of the early Greeks and Romans the average people back then sound about as intelligent as they are today, but merely living in different circumstances.
There's another point to consider and that is there is life in the earth as well as on the surface. This is taught in the scriptures several places. In the book of Revelations we read: "And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." Rev 5:2-3
Here we are told that there are men "under the earth."
The Mormon scriptures say the same thing: "And this shall be the sound of his trump, saying to all people, both in heaven and in earth, and that are under the earth--for every ear shall hear it, and every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess..." D&C 88:104 Again, the scriptures says there are "people" "under the earth."
DK gives similar evidence: It is His consciousness and His sensitive response to all forms and to all states of being and to all possible impacts and contacts which guarantees the developing consciousness of all the many lives within or upon this Earth of ours. Telepathy and the Etheric Vehicle Pg 183
Here DK talks of lives "within or upon this Earth."
If we consider that there is life within the earth then there could be a lot more opportunity for the 60 billion monads to incarnate than was previously realized.
You also write, "He(DK)also tells us that it takes around 1000 lifetimes to reach perfection which would be the fifth initiation or higher." - Where would I find this reference?
I read somewhere in his works where he indicates that each of the 1000 petals of the head center represents an incarnation. I have attempted to find this reference and have not been able to. Even so the idea does follow the law of correspondences and there is evidence in this direction that I did find.
DK says that one thousand is "the number of spiritual achievement." Letters on Occult Meditation, Pg 80.
Again the number 1000 comes up: In connection with the fourth world, Vyasa notes that it is the world of mastery, therefore the home of the Masters, and all liberated souls whose "food is contemplation" and whose lives are "for a thousand mundane periods," therefore who have immortality. The Light of the Soul, Pg 300
The "thousand mundane periods" could represent 1000 lifetimes.
He says repeatedly that there are many incarnations through which we must pass to achieve liberation. And even after we have gone so far as to achieve the first initiation we have a long ways to go to arrive at he second. He states:
"I would remind you here that many, many lives can elapse between the first initiation and the second-long, long interludes of silent and almost unapparent growth." Discipleship In the New Age Vol 1, Pg 94-5
Then in other places he talks of the 777 incarnations of the human entity but then goes on to tell us the number is not exact.
Finally, he gives us a definite statement that the final number of incarnations is long indeed. He states:
"The initial vibration is slow and heavy, and millennia of lives have to elapse before the interchange of energy between the Ego and its reflection, the personal self (the lower threefold man) is such that the consciousness of the man occultly 'awakens' in the Hall of Learning. For advanced man at this time these incarnations took place upon the moon chain and in some cases upon certain planets connected with the inner round." Treatise on Cosmic Fire, Pg 825
Here we are told that it takes "millennia of lives" to achieve the Hall of Learning.
He further tells us that the number of lives we spend on a certain cycle will vary with the effort of the individual.
My conclusion is that each petal in the head does indeed represent a life and that such a life is a symbol of a step forward. Each of these 1000 steps may take several short lifetimes or perhaps a very successful one may cause us to take several steps.
One fact is certain. With the long journey we have ahead of us the average person is not going to leap ahead by a factor of 25X in a couple lifetimes.
When someone gives us an esoteric piece of data and the facts do not add up we must consider that it may be incorrect and use the highest we know in connection with the soul to formulate the truth. The mark of the beast must yield to the God within.
Civilizations in decline are consistently characterized by a tendency towards standardization and uniformity. Arnold Toynbee (1889 - 1975)
Copyright 2004 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved