2004-4-29 06:36:00
Robert:
Did I not provide an adequate and understandable example in my last post anent the relativity of what 'very soon' can mean? The following example was stated, "Am I to accept that He lied because the words "very soon" are relative and extremely interpretable? The lifespan of a fly is about one month; in three days that fly lives the equivalent of 8 years of human life. Would you consider three days to be a long time? It is for a fly. The Ageless Wisdom tells us that individualization of Man occurred 18.5 million years ago; when we consider that the last time Christ walked with men was 2000 years ago - the vast difference between these two times is evident. Now let us consider the last time the Hierarchy was externalized working in full public view - approximately 100,000 years ago. So, would it be unreasonable that the 'very soon' that Maitreya and the Hierarchy speak today, can include 27 years? 30 years? Even 50 years?"
JJ:
Using this type of reasoning even Ozzie Osborn could be an accurate prophet.
One could predict "It will rain soon."
If it doesn't rain for a month the man could say - I am still an accurate prophet. It hasn't rained on Mars for millions of years so in relation to that tike period a month is soon.
One could predict: I will get a new car soon.
If he doesn't get a new car for ten years he may say, "Past civilizations went thousands of years without cars so getting a new car in ten years is soon by past standards."
One could predict: "I will pay you back the $20 soon."
When he pays it back a year later and the lender complains the borrower could explain: I've had a mortgage on my house for 30 years and have not paid it back so really I have paid you off quickly."
A true teacher does not use sophistry. If he says: "I will call you soon," and he doesn't call for a month he will not give some song and dance like, "a month is soon compared to a million years."
Instead he will apologize for the delay and attempt to not make it again.
When I attended Creme's lecture and he said Maitreya would come "soon" he elaborated and said it would happen within the next couple months. That was over 15 years ago. No one in the audience could have interpreted "soon" as he presented it as many years in the future.
The same is still true today. Perhaps Creme has learned his lesson and has ceased placing exact dates on the return. But when he says "soon" even today he does it in the context of a year or two at most. If he means otherwise, to avoid deception, he should explain that soon could be 30 years, but I do not believe he has said this.
Robert:
The 4 periods of time (if it is even as many as 4) that Creme has brought to the attention of the public have been periods of time with approaching windows of opportunity. The factors that determine whether the river merges with the ocean - were in sight from the Hierarchy's point of view. These factors were seen as nearing, yet the result was not predetermined. The Hierarchy would not suggest a time frame if the potential is not approaching.
JJ:
A time frame was not : "suggested" but specifically stated, not once, but several times. There was nothing out of the ordinary after his predictions that changed any window of opportunity. Creme was just plain wrong. Anyone who doesn't put Creme in the place of God can see that.
Robert:
It is true that Creme stated that Maitreya would appear worldwide on television in the months to follow, but it is also true that the media did not react with enough profound aspiration.
JJ:
You are blaming the media for Creme's failed predictions!!! WOW! That's one of the biggest stretches of rationalization I have witnessed.
In other words, you are saying that the Christ gave Creme a specific date of his appearance but then was powerless to fulfill his word because the media reacted differently than expected? Are you trying to tell us that Creme's Maitreya is stupid? Any causal follower of the media could have predicted the media's reaction including myself. Again you are telling us that you accept that most members of the Keys are smarter than the Messiah?
Step back, my friend, take a deep breath and observe yourself. Visualize how this sounds to us.
Robert:
The 'wrong' times provided by the Hierarchy can also be a reflection of Humanity and the general disinterest in the externalization.
JJ:
In addition to Maitreya not understanding the media he also did not realize that the general public would not take much interest in Creme's messiah. Wake up man! Glenys could have told the Hierarchy this much and more.
I know a lot of enemies of Creme fear that he is some type of antichrist and is to be feared, but if his hierarchy are this mentally lethargic there is nothing to worry about from his invisible helpers. They wouldn't be able to forecast tomorrow's sunset.
Robert:
I also wrote numerous times, "if what Creme speaks is true", and posed it as a hypothesis. Why do you overlook that fact and focus and dissect one line I write and ignore the times I have stated a hypothesis?
JJ:
I have not ignored this and have commented on your hypotheses. When I first came across Creme I tested him by reading his book and literature and attending a lecture. Logic, reason and soul contact told me he was deceived and his prediction would not come true. I was proven right about his prediction and he was proven wrong. Why should I trust him when he not as accurate as even my concrete mind? That would be silly. Would you trust Porky Pig as your conduit for God or the Hierarchy? This would defy reason and reality.
By the way, you never told me whether or not you tested out the Book of Mormon for truth with the same effort as you expect me and others to study and test Creme out. If you refuse to do this then what right do you have to tell me that my study of Creme is not enough???
Robert:
These quotes in the Times have much more weight than said quotes Morton ascribes Creme of speaking. The staff of the New York Times have their job on the line if they were to misquote Bush and the New York Times as a publication would lose credibility if it misquotes Bush and certainly if the Times publishes blatant fabrications.
JJ:
Morton has a lot to lose also. His quotes are circulated all over the Internet and he would look pretty bad if Creme just stepped forward and stated that Morton was lying. Creme has not done this. I wonder why.
Robert:
Can the Morton quotes be verified? Prove it.
JJ:
I've told you what to do. Ask Benjamin Creme. Creme followers seem to fear doing this.
I personally would like to know the truth of the matter. Logically I lean toward believing the quotes because Creme has not refuted them and I have not yet caught Morton in a lie.
Robert:
Not only will I not make the effort and spend the energy to attempt to prove the Morton quotes, but I have already said that I cannot personally contact Creme because I do not have that resourceful option.
JJ:
You can write a letter can't you?
Robert:
(First quoting me) "You will notice that Creme seems to think that only those on the left in today's world are advanced enough to be initiates."
Never has Creme publicly claimed someone to be an initiate (or not) while they were alive. Nor has he ever said only those on the left are initiates or disciples. These are massive assumptions on your behalf.
JJ:
My statement was accurate. I wasn't talking about dead initiates. I haven't read everything Creme has written but in everything I have read where he talks about living people in today's world with praise, as examples of people in the light, he has only mentioned of those on the left politically.
Like I said I have not read everything he has written. Can you give me an example of someone on the true right (like those on my list) that he has said anything good about?
Robert:
I had no idea that you have the purpose, among others, of finding some of the most soul-infused individuals that are side-tracked and are having difficulty in realizing their own true purpose. I recognize that this is a bit off topic, but care to indulge my curiosity? :-) How do your discern the people? Do you find them or do they find you?
JJ:
Those who are supposed to work with me will feel a familiar vibration when they read my books and be guided by their souls share in the same purpose I have.
Other disciples have their own sphere of activity with other groups and may not even have an interest in esoteric philosophy.
Robert:
What do you do from there? Does a procedure exist for your action? JJ, if you were to elaborate on that topic, it would be appreciated!
JJ:
Part of the plan is in writing and I am working on the rest of it. You can start by reading The Molecular Relationship and The Gathering of Lights - as well as The Immortal books.
Sure, it's going to kill a lot of people, but they may be dying of something else anyway. Othal Brand, member of a Texas pesticide review board, on the use of Chlordane
Copyright 2004 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved