2004-2-2 02:35:00

I forgot to wish John C. Godspeed upon his journey and hope he finds what he is looking for. I know there are many here who have been stimulated by his posts and wish he would stay, but each must follow his own inner direction. Perhaps that direction will eventually bring him back.

Here's a recent quote from John that I liked:
I have heard it said that America was the only nation founded on a good idea. Every nation wants to survive and perpetuate itself. To do otherwise would be insanity, but ideas are stronger than nations, and if this nation allows itself to fall, the ideas upon which this country was founded are firmly planted in mankind and they will continue to reassert themselves. The implanting of these ideas is, IMO, one of the great accomplishments of God and/or the Brotherhood in the past couple hundred years. The genie of the ideal of freedom is out of the bottle, and you can't put it back.

It is indeed an interesting truth that all ideas are eternal. The only beginning and end to an idea is its body of incarnation. The ideas peculiar to the United States concerning freedom, representative government and personal responsibility formed at the beginning of this country and have established a foothold in the earth to the extent that now the earth is its growing body and not the United States alone. Even if the U.S. should fall and dissolve, the idea will continue and be reborn until its purpose shall be exhausted. Then even when this occurs and the human race no longer lives upon this physical planet the idea will continue and be reborn worlds without end.

Keith writes:
The key phrase quoted by J.J. is the following, " ...War can be and is mass murder, where the motive is wrong..." Obviously, the motive is the bone of contention in today's Iraqi conflict.

Rapter Keith (I do not want to get into a discussion of the merits of these motives, but reference this quote only to illustrate the importance of the principle D.K. was trying to illustrate. If one can comprehend the true motive, then one can gauge the morality or immortality of a particular war. The hard part is judging the true motive. Of course, this is where the use of 'right judgment' comes into play. The principle is easier to understand in theory, than to apply in practice.)

This is a good point and I think it would be worthwhile to examine the motives of the United States in Iraq.

The enemies of George Bush, both in the country and out, claim he has evil motives such as desire for oil.

This claim is based on feeling and hate rather than evidence. During the first war with Iraq we could have taken their oil as well as that of Kuwait and we did neither. This time instead of taking the oil for ourselves we have given Iraq over $18 billion as a gift with no demand for oil as a repayment.

The weird thing is that many of those same people in the U.S. who have accused of Bush trading blood for oil have demanded that Bush demand oil for the $18 billion.

But does not the big oil companies and big business benefit from a free Iraq?

Yes, of course. Everyone benefits from a free Iraq including the millions of little people who work for the big companies. Many large companies, small companies, rich people as well as poor benefited from a free Germany and Japan after world War II but that does not mean we fought the Nazis for the greed of big corporations.

The second accusation is that we went to war to expand our control over the world.

Again, this accusation is based on astral feeling and there is little evidence to support it. In every country, including the United States, there exists power hungry people, but we have to look at the motive of the whole rather than the part. If we examine the history of this country over the last hundred years there is scarce evidence of a desire to dominate other countries for any sinister motive. After World War II we assisted in rebuilding Germany and Japan and helped develop a free government where individual rights were respected, then turned full control back to them. In addition we loaned large sums of money to many countries in Western Europe and then forgave much of the debt.

In the Korean War we gave 50,000 lives to gain security for South Korea. Today when you fly over Korea at night North Korea is dark and South Korea is full of Light. What does that tell you? Which country would you pick to live in? Does the world appreciate the fact that the whole of Korea would be dark if not for the war or it all would have been full of light if we had achieved complete success?

We lost the war in Vietnam so the results there of any victory cannot be tabulated. Critics used to say we were fighting that war for oil, but now that war is history there is little evidence of that.

As far as both wars in Iraq go there is no evidence that we seek any long term control any more than we did with Germany and Japan.

The point is there is no evidence of this sinister motive of which the United States has been accused.

So what is the true motive of this country that propelled us to war?

Here is a fact. Bush had much more interest in his domestic agenda on which he ran than foreign affairs until 911. He had an interest in continuing the policy of his Father and the Clinton Administration of regime change but showed no signs of taking drastic action of war.

After 911 and the defeat of the Taliban a war with Iraq was then on the table.


Because it was a breeding ground for terrorism. This was a threat that could be eliminated and possibly prevent something worse than 911.

Imagine what would have been said of Bush if Saddam used his billions to purchase an atomic weapon from North Korea and used it anywhere. Many would have been crying for his impeachment for not doing anything, just as many are upset he did not do more to prevent 911. He's in a catch 22 because if he did do more to prevent 911 he would have been accused of reckless fear tactics.

The main motive I see for the war is in the elimination of one of the numerous threats to future 911's.

A secondary motive was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people. This motive by itself was not strong enough to go to war, but it was expressed as part of the whole of the motive.

A third motive was to establish democracy. If this could be established in Iraq then you have the possibility of a domino effect where numerous countries would eventually follow which would solve many of the problems in the Middle East.

If we base our conclusion on logic and reason we must accept that the intention of the United States is based on positive much more than the negative, good intentions much more than evil. To look at George Bush and see the heart of a Hitler or Tyrant has no basis in reality and reveals a reflection of the mean spiritedness of the accuser.

Does an innocent motive for a war insure that the war is just? Not necessarily. Not only in war but in other matters people can have good intentions yet because of illusion or bad judgment disaster can result.

Judgment must always be used on a case by case basis.

I personally believe that the timing of the war in Iraq was crucial, that we had a window of opportunity to get rid of Saddam and free the people of Iraq. That if the move wasn't taken when it was that many unforeseen calamities would result from the lack of action. I believe that Bush was given a strong impression of this through the soul and this was why he proceeded in the face of enormous criticism, even at the risk of his presidency.

Keith, thanks for playing the devil's advocate on the moon landing. One more question. Did you find any explanation from the conspiritists as to how they retrieved parts from the Surveyor III from the moon and returned them to earth? Scientists then examined the camera and parts and concluded that it had the marks of being on the moon for the three years. I do not see how this could have been fabricated in Area 51.

"The death of the physical body is a lesser evil than the setting back of civilization, the thwarting of the divine purposes of the human spirit." DK