2003-9-4 06:45:00
Felix:
The problem we have right now (in this dialog) is that you are clinging to knowledge. Clinging to knowledge, this attachment - will only bring you to the gate of wisdom, it won't let you in.
JJ:
This accusation is getting tiresome, especially when you are guilty of what you accuse me of, ad nauseum. You are clinging to Creme and his doctrines to a very sad degree and yet you have the chutzpah to project your obvious faults upon us, me in particular.
Felix:
If someone who had never read a page of DK in their life were to read a complex page from Treatise on Cosmic Fire - they would not believe what DK is writing, they would not believe DK because they are using THEIR OWN (limited) knowledge to understand what DK writes. This is the problem of knowledge. The problem is that you can never have all of the facts, all knowledge. When you don't have ALL of the facts you are left with belief, and this JJ, is what you have about Creme and what he is saying about the return of the World Teacher.
JJ:
You're making no sense. You criticize me for not having all the facts then you say we can never have all the facts.
When I first read DK I was ingrained in the Mormon Church. Everything he said went against what I believed, yet I only had to read a couple pages to realize that this was the most intelligent and enlightened writing I had ever come across. On the other hand, I've read hundreds of pages of Creme's material and nothing similar to this happens. Creme actually had a foot in the door because he was talking about the return of Christ which was not against my belief system. There has to be some evidence of truth to keep the attention of any seeker. Instead Creme gives powerful evidence he is wrong.
Felix:
You have said yourself that you don't know everything Creme has taught. This is evident. By simply making a "conclusion" on whether Creme is a false teacher is an act of the lower mind. By choosing to BELIEVE what he is saying is a BELIEF, which is a result of the lower mind.
JJ:
This is what you keep doing to us - drawing conclusions from your lower mind. If you insist on this strong attachment to your own conclusions then you should quit preaching to us or some will think you're guilty of the "H" word.
Felix:
I have not read one Mormon book. My so-called philosophy was a suggestion to read Creme - this suggestion also failed to help you realize the danger of relying on the mind, on information, on facts.
JJ:
You obviously used the lower mind to conclude it was not worth reading even though you know nothing about it. Aren't you glad I'm not shoving this book down your throat the way you attempt to do to us with Creme?
Felix:
Did you use the word believe? : ) tsk, tsk.
JJ:
What have you got against belief? You've expressed a number of beliefs since you came here. If you are going to preach against something here then do as you say.
I believe quite a few things including a view that you preach, but do not do what you preach. Get used to it.
Felix:
I will try to get personally in contact with him and ask these questions ....but i certainly won't sign my name at the end of the letter because i realize as much as he will how ridiculous your questions are.
JJ:
You sound like a Mormon afraid to ask the prophet a question as he may be viewed as unfaithful. Be a man. Put your name on the letter.
JJ Quote If Creme gives out a fixed date yet knows the date is fluid then what does this mean? It means that Creme is consciously telling a bold faced lie by stating a fixed time when he knows otherwise.
Felix:
If Creme gives out a fixed date and knows the date is fluid, this is just another paradox of truth. Truth cannot be understood with the rational, analytical mind which you so often use. If Creme gives out a fixed date and knows the date is fluid - that MEANS he is giving out a fixed date which is fluid. Does that read like a riddle? Good. Yet another opportunity to realize truth.
JJ:
Congratulations!!! Most people have to live to at least the age of sixty to compile such a convoluted distortion of reality. You have done it at the young age of 21. It makes me curious as to how you will explain reality when you are 40! You'll make Baghdad Bob look like Donny Osmond - or maybe Ghandi.
I should have thought of this reasoning when I was a teenager. I can just see it now.
Mom: You're late! You said you'd be home by midnight and here it is 2 AM.
Young JJ: You do not understand. Your rational mind cannot understand midnight. Midnight is fluid and I knew this when I told you I would not be home at that hour. Because midnight is fluid this means that midnight is really 2 AM, or whatever time I get home. But the fluid thing worked didn't it? You were sitting here waiting for me to arrive at midnight - weren't you mom?
Mom: You lied to me and now have the audacity to insult me like this?
JJ: I'm not lying Mom. Midnight was fluid in my mind when I told you the time I would be home.
Mom: You may be fluid, but I'm not. You're grounded for a month and there is no fluidity about it.
Woops. That didn't work out so well. I guess the Felix doctrine would not have helped after all.
JJ to Felix. Elijah came to your house yesterday. I'm telling the truth because "yesterday" is fluid in my mind. So is Elijah.
I think you deserve an award here for the most astounding doctrine that anyone has ever presented to the list.
Felix:
Why must you need physical, worldly contact with Christ - ... Like i said, it would be easier for you if you just let Him into your heart. If you invite Him into your life via your heart, you will feel the energy of His presence. Unfortunately, people do invite him - but it's an invitation based in doubt and is not a genuine, sincere invitation..."
JJ:
This is what the born-againers tell me every time I meet one. Like attracts like. Maybe if you read the Bible and attended the Baptist church you would feel right at home.
Felix:
HIDE?! hahah. Did you forget about not infringing on free will? Also, again, your choice of words proves you have not learned much about what has been happening. He inspired Gorbachev to open up the Soviet Union, you call that hiding? He appeared to Nelson Mandela in his prison cell and inspired Mandela to meet with President deKlerk and to create a new constitution in South Africa ending apartheid. You call that hiding? He inspired the fall of the Berlin Wall which unified Germany - you call that hiding? He brought about the Middle Eastern accord by appearing to Yassar Arafat and to the King of Jordan. That is what you call hiding?
JJ:
That was the Christ who does not hide and who keeps his word who did those things.
Felix:
On top of this He has appeared to hundreds of religious groups around the world and have had talks with them. He has also been responsible for thousands and thousands of healings and "good deeds"
JJ:
Creme claims all kinds of manifestations which cannot be verified. For instance he said Maitreya appeared to hundreds of Mormons in the west. If this had happened Susan or Sterling would have heard about it, as nothing in Mormonism escapes them.
Felix:
It should be noted that not everything that has happened in the last two decades have been the result of Maitreya's inspiration. Both "wars" in the Gulf were not inspired by Christ - He did everything he could to resolve those situations - appearing to Bush senior and Hussein.
JJ:
And you believe he appeared to Bush and Hussein because...???
Felix:
It's shocking that you believe that such an Entity - The Master of the Masters, will use a telephone or email or an address where people can send Him letters. This is a Being who can think Himself anywhere in the world (on any plane) at will. This is a Being who can multiple His presence and appear before a group of people in China and a group of people in New York - AT THE SAME TIME, and he is going to use email? He can read your every thought - he does not need to eat or sleep - and this isn't so He can stay up all night and reply to personal letters being written to Him.
JJ:
To teach us without taking away our free will he will have to be as one of us. History will prove me correct and in a future life you'll be correcting others with the writings of J J Dewey.
Felix:
I will conclude this post with much food for thought -
JJ Dewey, you have written - "The Tibetan tells us in his writings that the preparatory teachings of the New Age was given through Blavatsky, the intermediate through Alice A. Bailey and then some time around 2025, advanced teachings from him will be given. In between that, starting after 1975, would be a "revelatory" period wherein the teachings will be simplified along with more revelation given out. The teachings which have been revealed will begin to permeate the mass of humanity. Eventually they will go out over radio and TV and reach the masses just as current established Christian teachings do. It will be noted that since 1975 there has been a tremendous upswing in interest in esoteric philosophy, but it has yet to reach the masses as anticipated, for some disciples have failed in their missions. Part of the purpose of current disciples is to teach that which has already been revealed along with other inspired teachings that will be revealed and prepare for the Coming of Christ and greater revelation. "
Wow, do you not remember writing this? I continue with a quote from DK - "Those disciples and initiates who will emerge from the three Ashrams and whose work is largely to act as the vanguard of the Hierarchy and precede it into outer manifestation. This will begin in the year 1975, if the disciples now active will do their work adequately."
Are you aware that it was in 1975 that Benjamin Creme began his exoteric work in relation to the reappearance? This is a fact. His training with a Master, intense training for this, began in 1972 and by the time 1975 arrived - the "revelatory" period began.
I find it ironic that you denounce Creme when you say, "starting after 1975, would be a "revelatory" period wherein the teachings will be simplified along with more revelation given out." ... like i said in an earlier post, Creme's books are very simplified
JJ:
No one including Creme has fulfilled the prophecy. You never hear Creme on the Radio or see him on TV. The world pretty much ignores him. DK was predicting a time that the esoteric teachings would reach humanity as much as the political talk shows and the religions do today. He was thinking of a time that all of us could turn on the media and on a certain station there would be an esoteric teacher reaching the masses.
Felix. I have a question for you. Do you accept every single thing that Benjamin Creme says when he claims it comes from a master or Maitreya? If not, tell me three things you have rejected?
The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
Steven Wright
Copyright 2003 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved