Master Reflections

2003-9-4 06:01:00

Felix,
I've devoted about all the time that is practical to the viable discussion of Creme. I think the group has enough information to draw their own conclusions. I will therefore reduce my responses to you to more concise answers with a view to moving ahead. It would be interesting to see how you handle dialog that is not directly associated with Creme's teachings.

I would be interested in Creme's numerical assessment of the initiate status of the following individuals:
Moses
The Apostles Peter, John and Paul
John The Baptist
Columbus
Mohammed
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
Joseph Smith
Brigham Young
Mary Baker Eddie
Abraham Lincoln
Alice A. Bailey
FDR
Winston Churchill
Thomas Edison
JFK
Castro
Martin Luther King
Ronald Reagan
Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
George W Bush
Bill Gates
Steve Jobs
Benjamin Creme

You misunderstand my use of the word Lucifer. If you want to find my teachings on the term go to the Archives Seach feature, and type in the word Lucifer in the search engine.

You seem to want me to read every book that Creme has written. Neither you nor I have the time to read all the literature of every organization that claims to have the truth. I read several books from the Jehovah's Witnesses to check them out about 40 years ago and that was plenty for me to get a pretty good feel of the group. If I would have read all their books I would still be reading and would have never gotten to the good stuff. I first read Creme's book and literature about 20 years ago. Again, I came to the conclusion that there were more enlightened fields to explore. There is no logical reason for me to read everything he has written. I have checked out their literature periodically since then. More than this would be counter productive, especially when he does repeat himself somewhat in his writings.

How many Mormon books have you read? They also have a leader who claims to be in contact with Christ. If you follow your own philosophy you would have to read hundreds of Mormon books just to make sure that it is right or wrong.

They also advocate the believing of their prophet whether it makes sense or not.

I was glad to see that your trans-channeling does not seem to involve a trance state. It does seem that you spend an unhealthy amount of time in a negative (receptive) meditation. I would hope you use some seed thoughts to offset the polarization that can leave many open to astral data.

Felix:
I ask you to ponder on something here - who else besides Benjamin Creme would be doing the reappearance work?

JJ:
There are thousands of lights around the world doing all they can according to their understanding to help prepare the way. The weight of the Hierarchy is certainly not on one man's shoulders.

You discount Morton's quote of Creme's words to him because you do not like his philosophy. His philosophy has nothing to do with how accurate his quote is. I may not agree with the philosophy of a reporter for Time Magazine, but if he quotes someone from an interview I would assume it would be accurate until I receive evidence to the contrary.

Again, here is the quote: The ultimate purpose, according to Creme, and I quote, is to "Give over all of your power and energy to the Masters so that they can use it as they please, to facilitate global change." Someone has something backwards here! Spiritual Masters are supposed to reflect the Light of God and the Creation through themselves down TO US, not the other way round. And what do these "Masters" need with all our energy? To quote the now deceased Capt. James T. Kirk, "Excuse me! What does God need with a Starship?" As Creme and I spoke, he began to lay out his global philosophy. His anger was clearly directed primarily at America. He felt that all of Western Civilization should be destroyed and dismantled so that the wealth, mostly of America, could then be "re-distributed" to feed the starving huddled masses of the world. "By what means?" I asked. "They must come to a place of consciousness for it to take place." he answered. "And if they refuse to do it willingly?" I asked slowly. "Then it should be done by force, if necessary!" "That," I replied cautiously, truly wanting to hear what he had to say, "sounds like Communism." "And what's wrong with Communism?" he retorted. "Are you a Communist?" I asked. "Young man, I have been a card carrying Communist for 32 years!" The plot thickens. "Have you ever been to Moscow, or studied there?" "Many times!" he said with pride.

There are three possibilities with these quotes. (1) They are accurate. (2) There is some truth, but Morton remembered them inaccurately. (3) Morton is deceptive and is lying

I am inclined to believe the quotes are fairly accurate as I have heard and read of some other Creme statements leaning in this direction.

Rather than assassinate Morton's character, why don't you just contact Creme and ask him if all or part of these quotes are true? Ask him point blank if he has ever been a card-carrying communist. Ask him if he is presently a communist. Ask him if he thinks that Western civilization (America in particular) needs to be dismantled and their wealth "shared" with the world communist's style. Do some research and find the truth rather than make accusations.

Felix:
Christ must have quite the signature, eh? : )

JJ:
Yes, Very impressive.

Felix:
FYI, the other time frames that Creme have given have again been a failure because everything that needs to happen didn't happen. You must understand that the Reappearance is fluid - it's not a fixed event. It will happen, but the time is still open.

JJ:
Let me present the problem here as clear as language can be. Creme really believes the date of the reappearance is fluid and not a fixed date. Apparently Maitreya does also. Yet time and time again Creme has given out a fixed state which he claimed was revealed to him by Maitreya. I heard this fixed and sure proclamation once myself with my own ears in a live presentation by Creme.

If Creme gives out a fixed date yet knows the date is fluid then what does this mean?

It means that Creme is consciously telling a bold faced lie by stating a fixed time when he knows otherwise.

If Creme and the Maitreya, speaking through him, are lying and know they are lying then what does this tell us?

It tells us that either Christ is a liar or Creme is not in touch with the real Christ. I prefer to believe that latter.

I'm curious how you reconcile this with your belief system.

Felix:
It does - that you don't fully know and realize what true faith is all about. When you use a term like "wrong appearance date" - this is the direct result of only thinking with your lower mind. Like i said before, the date is given because it represents an opportunity - a very close opportunity (since an actual date has been set, since there is no time on the soul plane).

JJ:
So when you are in the higher mind you can lie and that's OK? I do not recall Christ or the Masters teaching such a thing. This must be one of the new doctrines Creme has come up with.

Felix:
Believes through faith? Again, it seems you don't know what true faith is. I wrote about it in my last post. Real faith has nothing to do with the emotions, whereas belief is thought on the lower mental planes. Faith is above belief. Faith is above any lower "mental verification" - I have faith in the soul because i experience it, can you mentally verify the soul? I rest my case.

JJ:
Yes. You can mentally register the experience.

Below are some of my writings on faith:
Chapter Nineteen Real Faith
Those who boast of great religious faith remind me a lot of a neophyte in a multilevel marketing program. When entering the program they are pumped full of zeal by various distributors. I have met many of those individuals who think they are going to make a million dollars or so in the next year and they have unshakable faith that this will happen. But sooner or later hard facts and reality hits them and they realize that to be even moderately successful they will have to devote all their extra energies and efforts to this "part time" business. When faced with this hard fact over ninety per cent lose interest and drop away. Often, I have met these individuals at a later time and asked how their venture was going. Generally, they want to change the subject.

So the born again full-fledged gospel believing Bible thumping proselyter who does not want to apply works will want to change the subject when his faith is put to the test. If he reads his Bible perhaps this scripture will glare him in the face: "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Psalms 28:26 Those with unworkable faith merely trust in their heart, or their feelings, which is not faith at all. "Faith" comes from the Greek PISTIS and literally means: "a mental conviction one has proven true by argument or reason". Thus if one has faith he will go to heaven he should be able to justify it by logical argumentation. One will notice that Paul, a big believer in faith, spent much of his time in logical argumentation.

The book of Hebrews gives an expanded definition: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1 We can again find that the Greek will give us a much clearer translation here. "Substance" comes from HUPOSTASIS and in modern translations it is usually rendered "assurance" or "confidence" but in reality one English word cannot do it justice. It more literally means "That state of mind which supports an idea through a sustained effort." "Evidence" comes from ELEGECHOS which means "to prove a matter true or false". The word indicates that faith establishes the true reality. Thus a clearer translation of the preceding verse would be: "Now faith is having that state of mind which sustains that which is hoped for and reveals the truth of those things we do not see." This definition corresponds much better with the root meaning of the Greek PISTIS which is translated faith.

If we have faith, we can sustain an idea until it is proven true or false. It is never a blind unreasoning belief.

The correct definition of faith should make the word more acceptable to the more enlightened and intelligent persons who were previously repulsed to using it. We see that Edison, for instance, had great faith. He sustained the idea of the light bulb until he proved its validity by making it a physical reality. When faith is sustained on a true principle a physical manifestation occurs. "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed." Heb 11:2 We are also told, "But without faith, it is impossible to please Him" (God). Heb 11:6 Unless we can sustain an idea or conviction and prove it by argument or externalization we cannot please God.

By this scriptural definition of faith I know of very few pious religious people who have any semblance of faith, but ironically, there are numerous non-religious people who have it.

If those who claim to have faith do not actually have it, then what do they have? After searching through numerous words in the Biblical Greek the closest I can find to match what is commonly miscalled "faith" is BLASPHEMOS which in the English means "blasphemer".. BLASPHEMOS literally means "to hinder by stating an unfounded, rumored', or unreasonable statement". Interestingly, most of those who claim to have faith cannot support their belief with any logical foundation or reasoning, but merely repeat what they have been taught, therefore, instead of having faith they are committing blasphemy.

Felix:
You just contradicted yourself when you said, "I present you with mental and intuitional reasons for my position" ... There is no such thing as intuitional reason. Intuition is above reason, and if you really were accessing the intuition - you would not require a mental reason.

JJ:
DK disagrees with you on this. He said, "I would call your attention to the fact that this point of revelation is related to the plane of pure reason or to the buddhic plane." Discipleship in the New Age Vol II; Pg 405

"The plans for His (Christ's) coming are being laid in the higher correspondence of that plane, the buddhic plane, or the plane of pure reason." Discipleship in the New Age Vol II; Pg 426

The intuition is often called the process of "pure reason" by DK and I agree.

Felix:
Are you claiming that your mind is using pure logic? : )

JJ:
Many times, yes.

Felix:
Not true. You could go to East London and find this Being and shake his hand. Try it : ) ...

JJ:
Could you give us his address, phone number and e-mail address then? If not, then how do you expect us to find him and shake his hand? Obviously your statement is not true or someone would be finding him and shaking his hand.

Felix:
Creme has said that even the reappearance will be a process. It won't be one day that there is no "Christ" in the world and BAM! next day He is admitting He is the Christ.

JJ:
I heard him in person say the opposite. A specific spring day would arrive and BAM the whole world would instantly know.

You end your epistle by indicating that my teaching on the return of the Christ is a lot like Creme's. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I do not teach that he will announce his coming and then hide in London for 25 years to avoid keeping his word.

I teach that when he comes he will work opening among humanity. He will have a name and those associating with him will know what the name is. It will not be Jesus, Christ or Maitreya. He will have an address, phone number and probably an e-mail address and those who know him can visit him, shake his hand or call him on the phone.

He will not be hiding out, but will be accessible. He will not make mysterious appearances as a cab driver, a caterer, bell hop etc.

He will attract attention the same way he did last time - by his words and his works, working among the people as one of us. He will not attract attention because the world knows he is the Christ - at least not for some time.


The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
Steven Wright