Response to Susan

2002-10-5 04:34:00

Susan Quotes
(5) There is no draft - and this is a biggie.

Wait and see.

JJ
We are talking about the present comparison with the Sixties not the future. Things can always change on anything.

Susan
(6) There is much less censorship through the media.

This is ludicrous. There is much MORE by who the media is owned by.

JJ
Tell me why this is ludicrous? Who owns the various media means nothing as regards to this argument. If you use a word like this in relation to myself I expect you to back it up.

Tell me why then I can, with much more ease, find out what is going on in the world today than I could in the Sixties? What one person or reporter leaves out another will cover. Back then we did not have the diversity of the media as we do now and if it was censored we could not get the information.

The Internet is also part of the Media and this alone makes my statement true. You can find anything there. The Drudge Report alone makes the Sixties look repressive.

Tell me why I can watch movies that would have been banned back then for sexual and other content? (No need to judge the right or wrong of the content as that is not part of the discussion). It is indeed not ludicrous to state that movies and TV sitcoms etc are much less censored.

Susan
(9) Higher percentage of home ownership about 68% compared to 62%

Higher debt ratios and lower savings accounts, too. Also the strength of the dollar has largely decreased and is now nearly impossible for a one-income family to survive. If you compare what money bought in the 60's compared to now it is much less. We are losing ground financially. We are less stable financially. We have more toys and more debt. And to me the financial picture is the most important one--it is the true noose around the neck. But that is a huge discussion. Again I say, find out who owns the Federal Reserve and who really makes the financial decisions for the US. Let's say it together--Alan Greenspan. Who does he work for?

JJ
There were the same complaints by the conspiracy people of the Federal Reserve in the Sixties. The Main difference now is that many more people are aware that the Federal Reserve is not federal, but a private corporation. The situation here has not changed much.

As far as financial stability goes, we felt very unstable during the Vietnam era with billions going out of the country with no end in sight. We feared economic collapse then as much as we do now, perhaps more.

Susan
You pooh pooh the executive orders and all the losses of freedoms with the statement that it doesn't sound much differently than it did in the 60's by the Patriot's.

JJ
That does not correctly express my attitude. I do not agree with the executive order power, and consider it dangerous. It is important that my point I was making is not missed, which is this.

It matters not what the laws are or how many laws there on the books as much as it matters that we have a correctly informed majority. When the majority are against the enforcement of a law then the law will be ignored as thousands of outdated laws are currently ignored. Oral sex is against the law in Idaho, but when was the last time someone was arrested for it? Not in my memory. A law is not enforced when the majority will complain. Safety lies in an informed majority.

Susan
Baby steps, remember? They are taking baby steps and they are slowly, ever so slowly acclimatizing us to our loss of freedoms so we won't squawk. Why do you think several use the terminology of the slowly boiling water? Just because they haven't pulled the final stunt yet is no assurance to me that they won't!

JJ
I have seen this final stunt predicted by the illusive "They" a hundred times in my lifetime and the results have been so far off the predictions that it is obvious that no one knows who the real "They" are and if someone does have them pinned down they have no idea what the real "They" are really up to. Of course, there are always some hidden "Theys" with an agenda and would take away our freedoms if the opportunity presents itself and we must be vigilant.

Many of the drifts away from freedom you mention are the result of the principle of entropy. Any system will break down unless intelligent action and thought is applied to it. Only an enlightened majority can prevent entropy.

A larger danger that could greatly accelerate entropy, at present, is the modern Gadianton Robbers, terrorists throughout the world that must be stopped in their tracks.

Susan
Shall we go into all the abuses of power under Clinton? or all the people that are dead? For God's sake JJ, wake up! You say you don't know anyone who has been beat up, jailed, hurt etc etc I HAVE! I DO! We are too aware to be taken in by a Hussein or a Hitler. They are using different tactics on us and we are falling for them. All is well in Zion? I don't think so.

JJ
I am awake and informed to all you say. Are you awake to what I am saying? Your statements do not make my statement untrue that no one in my personal circle has been beaten up. I have several friends who are perhaps bigger rebels than you or Blayne and if they have not beaten them up yet then the abuse cannot be that pervasive. (My friends also think abuse is everywhere) This abuse I hear about is anecdotal and I am open to believing it is occurring all over the place but there seems to be no hard data on it. Yes, there is abuse out there, some get beat up unjustly, but it doesn't make me afraid of every knock on the door - and the anecdotal accounts haven't changed much over the years.

All is never completely well. Eternal vigilance is the cost of freedom, and to this principle I subscribe 100%. We must point our vigilance in the right direction.

"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy." George Washington