2002-10-5 06:28:00
Blayne
I have to agree with Susan. What you list is the public image Government portrays. It is true you don't see people on TV getting beaten etc. Like during the Vietnam protests etc. Or burned to death in their Church like Waco anymore but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Government has learned to protect their public image better but once and awhile they slip up like Waco and Ruby ridge.
JJ
But there was also about the same amount, or perhaps more unreported government abuse in the Sixties as there is now. I've kept track of much of the underground stuff since the sixties and the complaints of the Patriot groups have not changed much.
If there is flagrant abuse, the press will catch wind of it - like Waco and Ruby Ridge. Believe me if the police today were to treat the anti-capitalist protesters as they did the hippies of the sixties the bloody pictures would be in our face like Rodney King was.
Blayne
Some areas have improved yes like women's rights. But there is a long list of laws and executive orders etc. that have gradually taken our freedoms. There has been a mountain of executive orders and laws since the 60's that oppress our freedoms. Many of them have not been implemented fully yet, only selectively so as not to alarm the majority. But they are there when needed by tyrants. And gradually they have become more blatant about them. And have used a smear and fear tactics to put down any who stand or speak against it.
JJ
This dread of all kinds of secret laws has also been of great concern by many since the Sixties and the general trend of conversation about it "by those in the know" has also not changed much.
Oppressive laws are of course, a matter of concern, but of more concern is how they are put into use. There are currently thousands of annoying laws on the books that haven't been used for a fifty years and probably never will be. Even though a law may be on the books it can only be used unjustly if public opinion allows it. No matter what the law says, an informed majority is the best protection of freedom. So what we need to look at to judge the quality of freedom is not the law, but how the law is carried out and also how much authorities disregard the law to punish the innocent. This is supposed to be the main purpose of the law - to protect the innocent.
Blayne
Starting with the 1968 gun law the first restriction on bearing arms. It was taken almost word for word from Nazi Germanys anti-gun law. And has since been added on many times to the point now that a gun can be made illegal by the type of stock it contains when the stock has no bearing on the guns ability to perform. This is just one example. So called assault weapons are not any more deadly then a common 22 rifle that most teenagers owned in the sixties. I bet you had one JJ? I did and still do.
JJ
You are correct. I had a number of guns when I was twelve and shot my first animal with a pistol when I was four. I agree with your views on the second amendment and your concern here is correct in my view. I have written some about this in the archives.
Blayne
We have property seizure laws.
JJ
But property ownership has risen, and this is one of the gauges of freedom. I think the IRS had as much or more power to seize property in the Sixties.
Blayne
We have EPA laws and regulations that steal peoples land and livelihood and put people in jail for things like running over a rat that was supposedly protected while plowing ones field.
JJ
This should concern people more than it does.
Blayne
We have BATF and FBI harassing and roughing up citizens and confiscating property etc. with no due process. We have no knock warrants and sealed warrants the accused are not even allowed to view when served. And warrants served after the fact with no specifics of what is being sought as required by the 4th Amendment.
JJ
I have read stories about this, but know of no one who has experienced such things. From what I can ascertain, in most cases criminals are the victims here with a few who are innocent or targets because they challenged the Beast. This is a matter of concern, but I cannot find any valid statistics to ascertain how widespread it is. Anecdotal information can be very deceptive and that is all I can find on it.
Blayne
We have administrative law courts that won't even allow you to speak about constitutional rights because they know they are not article 2 constitutional courts.
JJ
This needs to be corrected through educating the majority. Challenging a judge in court gets the person in trouble and no change is effected.
Blayne
These are not isolated incidents these are every day occurrences and are growing exponentially.
JJ
Do you have any hard data on the growth? The anecdotal stories I have heard over the years has been fairly consistent.
Blayne
We have licensure from everything from right to travel to making a living to cutting someone's hair etc. etc. Want to tell me why one needs a license to make a living? When licenses do nothing to keep charlatans or lawbreakers from doing as they please. They only put revenue in the government coffers but are portrayed as protecting the public.
JJ
This hasn't changed much since the Sixties. In fact, there has been some relaxation on the professions in some areas. Many professionals can now advertise and this was strictly forbidden back then.
Blayne,
There is not much one can do now days without government permission via licensure or permit. example; one might say we can travel freely, not with out a driver license which is an adhesion contract to their rules however it's fraudulent because it is not fully disclosed which would void any contract. This is why they can arrest you for going ten miles over the speed limit when no one was around and you were not endangering anyone and confiscate you car etc. if you do not cooperate.
JJ
I haven't noticed much difference here since the Sixties.
Blayne
We have administrative rules and regulations enforced as law by various agencies that were never approved much less voted on as law by the legislature etc.
JJ
This problem has grown somewhat, but people grumbled about this during the Sixties about like they do now. How freedom problems filter down to the average person is the important gauge.
Blayne
If we wanted to take some time I could document many of our lost freedoms but I don't think we want to do that here. The list could go on and on though.
My point is that many here are speaking in ignorance because they have not studied and researched these things. There's much more going on then what's visible through media and the public image Government portrays.
JJ
I've kept up on these things for close to forty years. Most of those who are alarmed about a loss of freedoms have only been paying attention for a few years and are not looking at these scene from as wide of an angle of vision as I am. Overall I maintain my position that as far as freedom to act and speak is filtered down to the life of the average person that the situation is better today than it was back then.
By the way there are several threats to our freedoms greater than most you mentioned, in my opinion.
(1) Campaign Finance Reform which has recently passed. This restricts free speech sixty days before an election. This directly assaults the first and most important amendment.
(2) Greedy and frivolous lawsuits by people wanting to win the legal lottery. This puts the power to make a living of millions of people at stake. Just yesterday a female smoker was awarded 28 Billion dollars against Phillip Morris. That comes out to 1.6 million dollars for every day she smoked for 47 years.
These frivolous and disastrous awards place many businesses, as well as the nation, in great danger. A lot of the problem is the juries are carefully selected to get the verdict required with little regard to the evidence presented. Some with certain religious or political beliefs cannot get on a jury of their peers no matter how much they want to serve. Jury selection indeed needs reform.
(3) The threat of AL-Qaida and other terrorists. This is an alarming threat to freedom and instead of supporting the government in this essential fight against modern Gadianton Robbers, many freedom lovers are diverted into blaming 911 on the Jews, Bush, a secret government, the military, aliens or whatever.
(4) The attack on the free-market system by blaming many problems created by reckless government on the freedom business people have.
(5) Indoctrination in our schools and a refusal to allow both points of view being presented. Israeli former Prime Minister Netanyahu gets shouted down so much that schools do not invite him to speak. David Horowitz has to have as many as 50 bodyguards whenever he speaks at a major university. Consequently few universities will allow him to speak. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is blacklisted by most schools of higher learning. The schools today are like the restrictive religions of the past; only letting the students learn what is spoon-fed to them and will not allow a visiting speaker who wishes to present the suppressed view.
I think that some Patriots are hacking away at the branches of evil while not noticing the healthy root which is flourishing.
Copyright 2002 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved