2001-6-18 18:44:00
J.J. wrote: Are you identifying female emotion with rudeness and negative feelings? This is not the kind of response I receive from most of the females I deal with - thank God.
Moni:
Possibly their statements are being seen as "rude" or "negative" because they have reached a high level of frustration. Many times when they express their emotional side, it is shot down and they are called "disruptive".
JJ
I do not see anyone as being "shot down." If you disagree with me and give your views on that disagreement, that is not shooting me down. On the other hand, if I disagree with your disagreement and state my views that is not shooting you down any more than was your disagreement with me a shooting me down.
Moni
Why should we listen to you and your many opinions but you shouldn't listen to the females and their many opinions? They may be able to teach YOU something for a change.
JJ
You act as if you are speaking for all females here and some of them feel insulted that all females are categorized in the same box. Some females agree with my approach and some do not. Some males agree with my approach and some do not.
Can you give me an example of a female opinion that I have not listen to? I believe I have listen (and probably responded) to most of not all that have been expressed. If I do not agree with an opinion (male or female) that does not mean that I have not listened to it.
Moni
I agree with Xavier... I feel that it is acceptable to express your views from the mind. However, once we speak our views from the emotional we are being called names.
JJ
This is just not true, at least as far as I am concerned. I do not think you can present one example of me calling anyone a name.
Even so, sometimes Keys members loose their patience on both sides of an augment and call some names, but we are now trying to prevent this with a moderated list.
We have recently allowed some name calling to come through on letters critical of me, but we are going to start returning posts which call names with instructions for the member to rewrite.
Also, if an accusation is made we expect it to be based on truth. It was just insinuated here that I call people names and this is not true. From now on if you make an accusation and do not back it up, then your post may be returned to you for editing.
Moni
I realize I am at least the 4th person to say this. I also realize there are others who feel it but have not expressed it here (because I have many e-mails privately). Do I see a pattern here? How come J.J. doesn't see it? Selective sight?
JJ
I do realize that you cannot please everyone. A large portion of the people did not agree with Jesus' approach and many there were who thought that Abraham Lincoln was numb to their views even though he was the most patient president in our history.
I do not think you can find another class on the internet where the teacher has allowed and personally responded to so many divergent views as I have. I know that I have never attended a class myself where the teacher allowed himself to be so challenged and then personally responded. When I have been in classes and raised opposing views they have usually just been dismissed or ignored and had zero response. I have attempted to avoid this with the Keys members and to answer the challenges to my views.
Now once the answer is clear, because of time, the student may be referred to previous posts, because my time is at a premium.
Moni
I understand that the point here is to reach as many people as possible... to achieve some sort of wide spread awareness. A teacher wishing to reach far and wide can't always sit on his throne and preach with out hearing what his students have to say. This will only cause the students to get turned off and find another teacher. The students want to express their feelings (emotions) on what is being taught... not just be barked at. If we wanted to be barked at and not heard, we would go to church every day.
JJ
Again, I do not think you can point to one example of a case where I refused to hear a member. Just because I do not agree with a poster does not mean he or she was not heard.
I do not have time to respond to all posts and because of this some may think they are not heard even though their post has been read and appreciated by me.
Unfortunately, I spend more time personally responding to posts that disagree with me than those that agree. Some feel that it should be the other way around and they certainly have a point.
Moni
You stated that your purpose basically is to have people learn from you and from each other. Yet, when you reply to an "emotional" e-mail, you criticize it. It seems then that you aren't wanting everyone here to learn from you AND each other... only to learn from you.
JJ
I have NEVER criticized an e-mail for being emotional. I have pointed out rudeness and false accusations and admonished members to be truthful and polite. I do not see how you can fault me for this.
I believe that many here are willing to testify that they have learned from each other in addition to my teachings.
Moni
Why is it so impossible to sit back, take into consideration what has just been said, and let it sink in for awhile? If you don't agree with it, maybe instead of jumping on their butts immediately, you could ask questions (without obvious sarcasm). Maybe once they repeat what they mean... they can come up with a clearer explanation.
JJ
The problem does not need a clearer explanation in most cases. The problem is that I do understand, but just disagree. If they explain again in different words I still disagree. I suppose I could ask some extra questions so the person's feelings are assuaged, but then this approach slows down the lessons that many are looking forward to. It just has to be accepted that any teacher of any class will not agree with every student.
Moni
The group is taking a little turn and members are speaking up regarding their feelings.
JJ
Members have been more vocal before you signed on than they have been since you signed on. Overall members have spoken up quite definitely.
Moni
Maybe if we REALLY try to listen and learn from this we will get somewhere. But we will never get anywhere if we reply immediately out of anger.
JJ
I do not reply out of anger. Who are you speaking of here?
Moni
So, my first question goes to J.J. J.J., are you really willing to hear what your 'students' feel?
JJ
I am happy to, Moni. Can you give me an example where I have not? Again if I disagree this does not mean I have not listened. You have to listen to disagree.
Moni
It seems you aren't very open-minded when people begin to question your methods.
JJ
I could say the same toward you. There is no way to prove open-mindedness. Most people think that another is closed-minded if they disagree with them. A sign of an open-minded person is that he will always be acquiring new knowledge to share with others. Some think I fit in that category.
Moni
Do you think that we all have more to learn and we can all really learn from each other?
JJ
Of course and this is demonstrated every day in this forum.
Now I have a request to make to members here. When concerns such as Moni have expressed are made it often leads us away from the subject and many in the past have wound up complaining that we are leaving the lessons behind.
Now, I do want to answer real concerns here, but it is difficult to deal with accusations that are not backed up with examples.
We ask that when you disagree with my posts that you are specific as possible so I do not have to repeat myself in defending general, sometimes nebulous disagreements.
Copyright 2001 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved